[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by dajay0

Habit 1 - Use neutral while driving:

I don't think this is a good practice. While it undoubtedly improves the fuel efficiency since the car is coasting without any engine braking, the downside is that brakes have to work overtime in absence of engine braking efforts. Also, coasting in neutral can cause misjudgement of stopping power/distance .

Habit 2 - Use 1-3-5 gears:

This is something I also do but mostly when the traffic is very thin. With many cars, I have found third and fourth gears to be too close. So much so that if I complete an overtake in third, shifting to fourth afterwards necessitates shifting to fifth almost immediately. In such cases, it is so much convenient to shift to fifth from third.

With diesels particularly, this is even easier due to far superior torque of diesel engines.

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

I don't think this is a good practice. While it undoubtedly improves the fuel efficiency since the car is coasting without any engine braking, the downside is that brakes have to work overtime in absence of engine braking efforts. Also, coasting in neutral can cause misjudgement of stopping power/distance .

Coasting in gear with give you better FE than coasting in neutral.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by rohanak1

People driving in Bangalore would know that driving at Tin factory is a constant move between 1st and 2nd gear. To reduce clutch usage, I hold on to 1st gear and don't move to 2nd gear as I would anyways have to come back to 1st gear in a few seconds. This causes the car to jerk and shudder. When I engage first gear and give continous throttle input its all good. But when I take my foot off the gas pedal, the car jerks (probably due to engine braking) or if I increase the throttle input again there is a jerk. What's the best way to deal with this? If I slot into 2nd gear, then at the next moment I would have to start off from almost zero. Or shift back to 1st gear. I drive a Duster petrol

Since mine is a diesel, it's easier to control the accelerator and not shift to second, but guys at A.S.S told me this would result in clutch wear(I completely take my foot off the clutch), can experts clarify this? Frankly shifting to 2nd seems like more work and use of clutch too is more, so I wish to avoid that.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

Since mine is a diesel, it's easier to control the accelerator and not shift to second, but guys at A.S.S told me this would result in clutch wear(I completely take my foot off the clutch), can experts clarify this? Frankly shifting to 2nd seems like more work and use of clutch too is more, so I wish to avoid that.

Being in the right gear will not wear your clutch. In your case, you seem to be doing the right thing by being in the right gear.

It's always better to be one gear lower than to shift one up and then use half clutch.

I've driven 3 cars for 1.25 lakh Kms each ( Zen, esteem and etios ) and never had to replace clutch on any of them. It's because I always followed the below rules.

1. Shift down rather than be on the wrong gear and use half clutch.
2. Even in bumper to bumper traffic, engage the clutch for short intervals and disengage rather than continuously engaging in half clutch.
3. When starting from an incline, always get the help of hand brake instead of trying to prove your skills with half clutch. This is kind of an ego issue for many drivers and is taught wrongly by even driving schools.
4. Never hold the vehicle using half clutch on an incline.

There are some exceptions where you might have to use half clutch. But that should be exceptions rather than the norm. And it's easier to do all of this on a diesel than a petrol due to its better crawling ability.

And the best solution is to switch to an automatic with HAC. :-)

[R2D2]

My thoughts:

Originally Posted by dajay0

I have some confessions to make. I have developed these two habits in my last 20 years of stick shift driving.

Habit 1 - Use neutral while driving: Many times when I am driving hilly regions or just city driving, I use the neutral gear to cruise. I do it when I anticipate I am going to stop or when I am going downhill. I feel I save a bit on gas by doing it. I shift back into the appropriate gear if I need engine power or braking and have never noticed any problems.

How much fuel do you think you save? 0.1 kmpl? Remember your engine is still on and idling i.e. doing literally nothing instead of performing some very useful tasks for e.g. engine braking which actually helps you lower wear and tear on the brakes. It also helps control the car in an emergency.

Also, what if you need that engine power in an emergency at the wheels? Do you think your reflexes are fast enough to depress the clutch pedal, select and slot the gear and release the clutch and apply the appropriate amount of AP pressure to deliver the expected power?

Habit 2 - Use 1-3-5 gears: This one I learnt from my "Speed Demon" father-in-law driver . While normal driving I directly shift (when I sense the speed is right) from 1st to 3rd to 5th gears. It gives me the agility to get to the higher gears as quickly as possible (hence achieve top speed quickly). Sometimes in city driving I also use 2-4 only. I do not do these when I sense that the engine is stalling.

LOL! Bhai, you paid for those gears in that gearbox. So what's the harm in using them?

Gear ratios are there for a reason. The first and most important is slotting thru the gears sequentially helps keep the engine in its optimum RPM and torque band which help save fuel. Also, going from 1 to 3 to 5th could mean lugging the engine which is not a healthy habit and can lead to bearing and piston knock later. Also hope you don't slip the clutch as a matter of habit.

Believe me, if you are so fanatical about mileage select a car that runs on dual fuel - petrol and CNG.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by R2D2

How much fuel do you think you save? 0.1 kmpl? Remember your engine is still on and idling i.e. doing literally nothing instead of performing some very useful tasks for e.g. engine braking which actually helps you lower wear and tear on the brakes. It also helps control the car in an emergency.

Also, what if you need that engine power in an emergency at the wheels? Do you think your reflexes are fast enough to depress the clutch pedal, select and slot the gear and release the clutch and apply the appropriate amount of AP pressure to deliver the expected power?

+1
Adding a few more points here.

• On a modern car, coasting down a hill in gear will give you better mileage than being on neutral thanks to DFCO ( deceleration fuel cut off ). The engine uses zero fuel during this process and just uses gravity to maintain idle speed. When you are in neutral, it uses some fuel to maintain the idle speed of the engine.
• Your brake pads will have to be replaced more often and will again increase your ownership cost.

So even cost wise, it doesn't make any sense at all.

Originally Posted by R2D2

Gear ratios are there for a reason. The first and most important is slotting thru the gears sequentially helps keep the engine in its optimum RPM and torque band which help save fuel. Also, going from 1 to 3 to 5th could mean lugging the engine which is not a healthy habit and can lead to bearing and piston knock later. Also hope you don't slip the clutch as a matter of habit.

+100!

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by bharatbits

I felt the clutch pedal was moving in freely like a dead pedal without any resistance. Could it be the clutch wire that snapped? Or anything to do with the clutch kit or master/ slave cylinders. How do i identify what exactly could be the issue? In case it's a clutch kit don't you think it's a bit early for the fault to arise. Can i claim warranty since it's still in the 3 year/ 100000 km window and maintained as per schedule.

The Linea, like the Palio, will have a hydraulically actuated clutch. The fact the CP went down to the floorboard without resistance means you have a leak in the hydraulic circuit. Please get that checked ASAP. It is imperative because in AFAIK the clutch and brakes operate using brake fluid stored in a common fluid reservoir and a leak in any one of these circuits could render the other inoperative. You really don't want the brakes to fail.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by bharatbits

I felt the clutch pedal was moving in freely like a dead pedal without any resistance.

Possible reasons:
> Failed Clutch master cylinder
> Failed clutch slave cylinder
> Brake/ clutch fluid low/ nil
> Leak in the hydraulic line of clutch/ brake.

Just a word of caution: Check the brake/ clutch fuid level. If there was leak in the hydraulic line, it can also result in a brake failure. So check your brakes before trying to move your car.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Clutch wear is essentially/simply put a function of how much you let the clutch slip, for how long and at what RPM. As a general rule you should try to let out the clutch quickly, but smoothly. Adding some throttle (i.e. RPM) shouldn’t be a problem in practice. Most clutch wear is due to prolonged slippage. E.g. ridding the clutch as it sometimes called.

Happy clutching!

Jeroen

My driving habit has been spoiled after driving a hatchback which has a very poor low end torque. I know I am going wrong somewhere though my car is till running on stock clutch after 67k+ kms.

Releasing the clutch very slowly and without throttle input, leads to a very slow crawl if the road is a level ground. For going a wee bit faster or overcome any obstruction, I need throttle input. Now comes the problem. If the throttle is less and there's a little load on the engine (gradient of road, AC or people in the car), the car shudders and gets bogged down. The way out is generous throttle input while releasing the clutch. But while in tight spaces and B2B traffic, the speed/launch has to be controlled and I have to do it via part clutch release or quick disengage.

What can be improved and how? My concern is in the 1st and 2nd gear only.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by ashis89

My driving habit has been spoiled after driving a hatchback which has a very poor low end torque. I know I am going wrong somewhere though my car is till running on stock clutch after 67k+ kms.

Releasing the clutch very slowly and without throttle input, leads to a very slow crawl if the road is a level ground. For going a wee bit faster or overcome any obstruction, I need throttle input. Now comes the problem. If the throttle is less and there's a little load on the engine (gradient of road, AC or people in the car), the car shudders and gets bogged down. The way out is generous throttle input while releasing the clutch. But while in tight spaces and B2B traffic, the speed/launch has to be controlled and I have to do it via part clutch release or quick disengage.

What can be improved and how? My concern is in the 1st and 2nd gear only.

So a few thoughts. Obviously pulling away with the engine just idling is limited by the torque of the engine and that is low as you said to start with. So anything over and above a certain level of resistance is going to bog it down.

You might want to check a few things just to make sure their are no mechanical issues. For one thing check the idle RPM. Even if your car has a RPM counter I would not trust it at these very low RPMs. The needle will hardly move of the peg. You will find that as little as 100RPM below the normal idle RPM will make a noticeable difference in how quickly the engine gets bogged down.

The other test, find a friend with the same car/engien and swap. See if you get a different experience. If so, there might be something that needs further investigating.

But you are probably experiencing what is by and large the normal behavior of this car/engine. So use the throttle a bit more. That does mean you need to use the clutch slightly more, but I wouldn't worry about that all. At these very low speeds and RPMs clutch wear isn't really impacted by using idle RPM or a slightly higher RPM.

Bogging down your engine overtime might cause more wear and tear.

Ride along with a few others and see how they handle the throttle and clutch. Do they manage to pull away smoothly without bogging down or revving up the engine. Observe and try it out.

At the end of the day it is a balancing act between your right and left foot.

Jeroen

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

You might want to check a few things just to make sure their are no mechanical issues. For one thing check the idle RPM. Even if your car has a RPM counter I would not trust it at these very low RPMs. The needle will hardly move of the peg. You will find that as little as 100RPM below the normal idle RPM will make a noticeable difference in how quickly the engine gets bogged down.

Idle RPM seems normal as I don't face any stalling issues. Also car crawls in normal condition when I let go of the clutch slowly. I will still get it checked at the service center.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The other test, find a friend with the same car/engien and swap. See if you get a different experience. If so, there might be something that needs further investigating.

I drove a new car, same model. The throttle response was much better but I feel the low end torque was better in my car. Will check this again.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

But you are probably experiencing what is by and large the normal behavior of this car/engine. So use the throttle a bit more. That does mean you need to use the clutch slightly more, but I wouldn't worry about that all. At these very low speeds and RPMs clutch wear isn't really impacted by using idle RPM or a slightly higher RPM.
At the end of the day it is a balancing act between your right and left foot.

Jeroen

This is reassuring and helps a lot. Seems like collateral damage.
I will make sure the RPM remains as low as possible in such situation and try to find that sweet spot.

Thanks for your feedback.

Ashis

[DogNDamsel12]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Engine braking is used when you need to brake from high speeds within a small distance. For normal sedate driving, i wouldn't really need to engine brake.

Regards..
Shan2nu

Originally Posted by Jaggu

use acc to blip the rpm high so that u get a smooth decelaration while down shifting, engine braking is a great boon when it comes to braking control..

Happened to dig up and read this old but awesome and interesting thread. My question is to both of your comments, if I saw them in unison and try to make a visual sense of what's going on.

Is braking faster? I gather engine braking + applying brakes is recommended. In that case, won't blipping the rpm increase braking time?

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by DogNDamsel12

Is braking faster? I gather engine braking + applying brakes is recommended. In that case, won't blipping the rpm increase braking time?

What a blast from the past thread!

I think what Jaggu was talking about was anticipating braking as early as possible when blipping the throttle. But in case of an emergency braking situation, you would want to stand on both brake and clutch.

Lately, I have discovered the joy of rev matched downshifts, which is what Jaggu was referring to probably, where you increase your engine rpm to match the speed at which it would be spinning at the lower gear. Results in much smoother downshifts and prolongs clutch life. Below video explains the details

What Is Rev Matching

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by DogNDamsel12

Is braking faster? I gather engine braking + applying brakes is recommended. In that case, won't blipping the rpm increase braking time?

Braking is better with engine and regular brakes together anyday, but in an emergency stop one needs to really be a good rider to figure out the combination. But in todays bikes with quick shifter and all, it is much easier for even novice riders to master the same.

Remaining amitoj has explained well ^^