[aveemashfaq]

Mod Note: WATCH THE TONE. Do NOT post in a rude manner on Team-BHP, or use inappropriate language. Keep it polite, keep it respectful.

[Akshay1234]

Wow, looks like you are really pissed with manufacturers!^^^

With all due respect, what you have suggested is a temporary cheap fix, and in no way a solution to the problem.

This 3 series is far more complicated than your flood damaged Getz. The amount of electronics and the can bus system is quite advanced as compared to your Getz. So comparing the solutions which worked on your Getz mean nothing when its comes to this vehicle.

I agree with the convenience of a HUD, and it is great, but not to replace an instrument cluster which isn't working. FYI the instrument cluster in a BMW does a lot more than just display the speed and rpm. It stores the mileage, has the vehicles vin, also keeps the service schedules amongst other things. So all of the vehicles functions will not work properly without a working instrument cluster. Apart from that it gives things like call lists, entertainment lists, warning messages, which I am certain an OBD HUD will not provide.

So I suggest you calm down. I agree manufacturers can be rip offs, but at times its best to go to them. Neighborhood garages may not know what to do and may try solutions like you have suggested which will be no good in this case.

[AbhiJ]

F 30 320 D Owner here.

IMO, Do not go for "jugaad"OBD HUDs. I am sure they will work, but your car and you deserve better.

Repair / Replace the instrument cluster.

If you have the inclination, take out the cluster and get it repaired. Apparently its quite simple to remove.

If you need help in repair, I know some crazy electronic guys here who can take a look at it. This is not a commercial transaction, just trying to help you out.

You open the console (Its apparently easy) and courier it to me. In case the repair doesnt work out, all you ll loose is courier charges.

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by aveemashfaq

I have also read how skoda EGR modules get clogged up and need cleaning which local mechanic charge 500rs. But instead, the company policy calls for replacement of parts giving a bill of 50,000rs.

Does this really happen? Can any Skoda owner confirm this? Even Skoda would not think Indian customers are this naive. Also I don't think EGR would cost 50000 Rs. It is just a metallic valve I think made of copper or some sort of alloy brown in colour(Like our house taps but less complicated than them :-)).

[AbhiJ]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Does this really happen? Can any Skoda owner confirm this? Even Skoda would not think Indian customers are this naive. Also I don't think EGR would cost 50000 Rs. It is just a metallic valve I think made of copper or some sort of alloy brown in colour(Like our house taps but less complicated than them :-)).

Hyundai took Rs 8K from me in 2008 for my Accent CRDi....

[Jeroen]

Interesting discussion. Here is what I would do or would have done

First and foremost I would want to see the OBD readout from the dealer. I.e. error code.

Electronic clusters do fail, but it is more often than not an electrical/mechanical problem. (e.g. poor connection). So I want to see the details of the dealer diagnosis. (Are you sure they took a proper OBD reading?)

The car is already out of warranty, so you might as well have a go at trying to get it repaired via other channels tehn official dealer channels.

Pop the cluster out, it is dead easy. Check the connectors, spray electro cleaner, check specifically the earth/ground connections of your cars electronics. Especially around the driver seat area. (there will be multiple)

Do a very thorough visual inspection of the cluster, back plate connectors etc. I have had these sort of problems caused by a simple pin in a connector getting loose or a cable loom that got chaffed.

I would open the cluster and again do a very thorough visual inspection, checking wiring, soldering, components etc. Make sure it is all clean.

Very often by just opening it up, fiddling a bit, and putting it back you might have fixed it. Which mostly means it was a bit of dirt, a poor contact etc. etc.

I've seen other post mentioned the fact that there are specialized shops that might be able to actually check the electronics of your cluster.

When experiencing 'seemingly' electronic problems
- Always get a manufacturer specific OBD hooked up and let them explain to you in detail what the readings will mean. Most come with a trouble shooting guide, either built in, or a seperate manual what subsequent action to take. (check this, that, measure here, there, replace etc)
- Electronics rarely break, mostly it's simple electrical/mechanical issues.

So you need to find somebody who is interested to spend a bit of time trouble shooting rather then rip and replace with new.

good luck

Jeroen

[RSUDARSANAN]

Originally Posted by AbhiJ

Do not go for "jugaad".... your car and you deserve better.

NO FNGS neither any "some crazy electronic guys" !

Spent big bucks acquiring the *UDM, gotta spend big bucks keeping it ship shape;
with oem spares, serviced and maintained at authorized dealerships equipped with the necessary specialized tools and sophisticated equipment.

Disclaimer: To each his own

Cheers

*Ultimate Driving Machine

[ajaypjayaraj]

Originally Posted by RSUDARSANAN

Spent big bucks acquiring the *UDM, gotta spend big bucks keeping it ship shape; with oem spares

Originally Posted by RSUDARSANAN

serviced and maintained at authorized dealerships

Do not agree. Apparently, not the case everywhere. Lucky if the Authorized service centre around has skilled technicians who are capable enough to do anything more than a regular service (limited to renewal of engine/brake oil and filters only, forget transmission oil renewal awareness and stuff). Have seen unbelievably incompetent lot and was forced to find an alternative (again, not many out there). Talking from my own experience with multiple premium cars as well as experience of friends who have faced the problem with premium car authorized service centres. No fault finding capability and on top, ability to cause more damages to the car which was left scratchless with them without even the courtesy to take care of such issues. I have given up on them after doing their job and finding fault for them myself in a couple of instances because of their incapability. (Bang head and Beat horse icons... Plenty of them!)

Originally Posted by RSUDARSANAN

equipped with the necessary specialized tools and sophisticated equipment.

[AbhiJ]

Originally Posted by RSUDARSANAN

NO FNGS neither any "some crazy electronic guys" !

Whats FNGS?

Also, little harm in trying IMO.

[RSUDARSANAN]

Originally Posted by ajaypjayaraj

Do not agree. Apparently, not the case everywhere. Lucky if the Authorized service centre around has skilled technicians who are capable enough...

Understand where you are coming from .
Also aware, same dealership with happy and unhappy customers.
Have a friend who has more or less decided to service his premium car at Mysore.

Originally Posted by AbhiJ

Whats FNGs

Friendly Neighbourhood Garage s

Also, little harm in trying IMO.

@ your risk

[aveemashfaq]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Wow, looks like you are really pissed with manufacturers!^^^

With all due respect, what you have suggested is a temporary cheap fix, and in no way a solution to the problem.

This 3 series is far more complicated than your flood damaged Getz. The amount of electronics and the can bus system is quite advanced as compared to your Getz. So comparing the solutions which worked on your Getz mean nothing when its comes to this vehicle.

I agree with the convenience of a HUD, and it is great, but not to replace an instrument cluster which isn't working. FYI the instrument cluster in a BMW does a lot more than just display the speed and rpm. It stores the mileage, has the vehicles vin, also keeps the service schedules amongst other things. So all of the vehicles functions will not work properly without a working instrument cluster. Apart from that it gives things like call lists, entertainment lists, warning messages, which I am certain an OBD HUD will not provide.

So I suggest you calm down. I agree manufacturers can be rip offs, but at times its best to go to them. Neighborhood garages may not know what to do and may try solutions like you have suggested which will be no good in this case.

Yup. I know that BMW is more sophesticated than a Getz. I understand the CAN bus concept and the VIN number etc. But that does not automatically make it a crucial factor for starting the car. Let me make my point in two folds.

1. An instrument cluster does not have any sensors vital for engine/car performance. All it does is gets input from the ECU like engine speed, fuel sensor readings, speedometer sensor readings etc. and displays it on a posh little screen. So, it does not matter if the dashboard does not work. Your car will not develop any future problems just because your instrument cluster isn't working.

2. That is why I also suggested OBD scanner solution as well. What an OBD scanner does is it scans everything that the ECU provides. So, your engine rpm, gears, VIN number, speedometer as well as the warning lights and error codes and service reminders are diagnosed by the OBD scanner. It is just a matter of choosing what you want to show up on the screen of the tablet you will stick on. If you are lucky, you can get a guy to make a custom interface for you with all information that you need in the style you need. I know some basics of OBD programming and trust me, it can be done. If not by others, I can give it a shot.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Does this really happen? Can any Skoda owner confirm this? Even Skoda would not think Indian customers are this naive. Also I don't think EGR would cost 50000 Rs. It is just a metallic valve I think made of copper or some sort of alloy brown in colour(Like our house taps but less complicated than them :-)).

I can't confirm but I remember reading somewhere that they don't service the part but just replace it. However, my uncle has a Ford figo whose EGR clogged up. He took it to A.S.S and they replaced the EGR module. Interestingly, they changed the EGR valve along with the motor regulating the valve. Why? Just because EGR comes as a single part with the motor and the valve together as a unit. It cost him 22,000 and labour was extra.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Interesting discussion. Here is what I would do or would have done

First and foremost I would want to see the OBD readout from the dealer. I.e. error code.

Electronic clusters do fail, but it is more often than not an electrical/mechanical problem. (e.g. poor connection). So I want to see the details of the dealer diagnosis. (Are you sure they took a proper OBD reading?)

The car is already out of warranty, so you might as well have a go at trying to get it repaired via other channels tehn official dealer channels.

Pop the cluster out, it is dead easy. Check the connectors, spray electro cleaner, check specifically the earth/ground connections of your cars electronics. Especially around the driver seat area. (there will be multiple)

Do a very thorough visual inspection of the cluster, back plate connectors etc. I have had these sort of problems caused by a simple pin in a connector getting loose or a cable loom that got chaffed.

I would open the cluster and again do a very thorough visual inspection, checking wiring, soldering, components etc. Make sure it is all clean.

Very often by just opening it up, fiddling a bit, and putting it back you might have fixed it. Which mostly means it was a bit of dirt, a poor contact etc. etc.

I've seen other post mentioned the fact that there are specialized shops that might be able to actually check the electronics of your cluster.

When experiencing 'seemingly' electronic problems
- Always get a manufacturer specific OBD hooked up and let them explain to you in detail what the readings will mean. Most come with a trouble shooting guide, either built in, or a seperate manual what subsequent action to take. (check this, that, measure here, there, replace etc)
- Electronics rarely break, mostly it's simple electrical/mechanical issues.

So you need to find somebody who is interested to spend a bit of time trouble shooting rather then rip and replace with new.

good luck

Jeroen

Thank you. Finally someone who is on my side. I wanted to explain all of that but they own a BMW. Chances are, if you remove the engine cover, they will think that the engine is broken and they need a new engine. So, I used the clause IF YOU ARE BRAVE. No offence, I was trying to exaggerate my point, but whoever I have seen with that amount of money, the last thing on his mind is DIY. I am sure there are exceptions but the general lot are scared of opening even a small screw.

Originally Posted by ajaypjayaraj

Do not agree. Apparently, not the case everywhere. Lucky if the Authorized service centre around has skilled technicians who are capable enough to do anything more than a regular service (limited to renewal of engine/brake oil and filters only, forget transmission oil renewal awareness and stuff). Have seen unbelievably incompetent lot and was forced to find an alternative (again, not many out there). Talking from my own experience with multiple premium cars as well as experience of friends who have faced the problem with premium car authorized service centres. No fault finding capability and on top, ability to cause more damages to the car which was left scratchless with them without even the courtesy to take care of such issues. I have given up on them after doing their job and finding fault for them myself in a couple of instances because of their incapability. (Bang head and Beat horse icons... Plenty of them!)

Exactly. That is why I curse the damned auto manufacturers and their service centers and showrooms. I happen to have gone through service manuals of some cars. In a M800 service manual, theory behind every part is explained and then procedure for removing part and troubleeshooting guide along with simple servicing procedures are explained.

Got a Hyundai getz and the only thing in service manual was which bolt is where to open and replace which component. And troubleshooting guide goes like this, if this is the fault, check it with a multi meter, replace it or replace that. At least, check word is used.

Gone through a duster manual and "check" is absent completely. Just replace this or that. That is how pathetic car manufacturers are.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by aveemashfaq

I can't confirm but I remember reading somewhere that they don't service the part but just replace it. However, my uncle has a Ford figo whose EGR clogged up. He took it to A.S.S and they replaced the EGR module. Interestingly, they changed the EGR valve along with the motor regulating the valve. Why? Just because EGR comes as a single part with the motor and the valve together as a unit. It cost him 22,000 and labour was extra.
re.

Let me give you a similar example. My Jaguar XJR (model 308) has suffered from problems with the throttle body. It shows up with a distinct OBD code. The official Jaguar procedure is to replace the throttle body when this code shows.

The throttle body cost approx. $2.300 plus $ 300-400 labour in the USA or Europe.

The actual problem is with the potential meter mounted on the throttle body. A part that costs about $2-4. Plus a few hours fiddling. In many cases taking it apart and cleaning it will fix the problem for tens of thousands of kilometres.
Go figure!

Remarkably, Jaguar has ran a warranty replacement program in the past where they still replaced the whole throttle body. I think they are way stuck in their ways, the way they procure parts, write procedures etc.

Jeroen

[P242]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Does this really happen? Can any Skoda owner confirm this? Even Skoda would not think Indian customers are this naive. Also I don't think EGR would cost 50000 Rs. It is just a metallic valve I think made of copper or some sort of alloy brown in colour(Like our house taps but less complicated than them :-)).

I have had the EGR replaced in my Vento under warranty(car had done less than 35k and almost 3 years old at that time), the EGR box had 40k+ MRP printed on it but when I asked the SA he told that roughly it comes arount 24k-28k for EGR replacement. The EGR looked like it could be cleaned as the value was not moving as smoothly as it should but they insisted it to be replaced. They gave an explanation that unlike Suzuki our EGR's are sealed and cannot be cleaned.

Coming back to the topic the German luxury cars have really complicated electronics and engines running at very fine tolerances, the amount of power they are extracting from humble 2 liter diesel engine is astonishing. As these parts are so complex and companies have spent huge amounts in R&D during development they command a higher premium. I have seen Mercedes C class repair bills which were 1/3 of the value of the new C class.

As everybody already advised the best option is to escalate it directly to BMW and try to get it done under good will as this is very early for instrument cluster failure.

[H_Dogg72]

1. If you touch the cluster by opening it you lose all chances of getting goodwill warranty.
2. Dear lord I hope something else doesn't get messed up if you follow that route.
3. You really expect someone to fiddle with the wiring of a German car? That's stupidity. Right now it's just the cluster. One small mistake and who knows what'll conk off.
4. An OBD simply cannot replace a damn cluster. This is not a Hyundai or maruti we're talking about. Loads of functions are set using the cluster. Cmon man. Be logical.

Ps. When I was getting the gti bixenons installed in my TSi the cluster was dead and the car didn't start. After about 5 mins of mindless panic, I checked the fuses and 3 of them were shot. Replaced and it worked as good as new. In your case it seems as though it's something else entirely. Please don't give up and pay. Try your best to escalate the matter and get it done under goodwill. Hoping for the best.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by H_Dogg72

1
2. Dear lord I hope something else doesn't get messed up if you follow that route.
3. You really expect someone to fiddle with the wiring of a German car? That's stupidity. Right now it's just the cluster. One small mistake and who knows what'll conk off..

I have seen similar responses but you don't need to have a doctorate in physics and computer science to take a cluster out. Taking connectors apart is similar, you don't mess anything up. Statements along who knows what will conk off are not encouraging, but more importantly have no foundation but show total lack of understanding of the matter at hand.

There is nothing wrong about simply not wanting to fiddle with your car yourself, but I believe making statement that hold no truth are not helpful
Jeroen