[schakravarthy]

That's a pretty sad story, Zahin! Sorry for your loss mate; monetary being just the smaller part. Wonder how far this would've gone if you weren't hands-on or technically inclined!
Reading only the happy-happy stories and the numerous recommendations, even I was under the illusion that Joel was a go-to guy for the mods! Not any more, thank you!
It's good that shared your experience. Given the wide reach TBHP carries, I'm sure you will have saved quite a few gullible folk from incurring headache and heartache.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by james

I never intended to put up a thread. But lately I realized that people are still getting conned by him

Hello James, it really takes guts to admit their own mistake; and it takes even more courage to admit to public; that way...hats off to you

My intention of this post is, the way you've narrated, the way events turned out in this post, there's several such similar stories, but on motorcycles about couple of years or so before in another popularly themed bhp website. Just Google & you can find out so many horror stories.

Anyway, I empathize with you but the good news is that, you've learned a very valuable, yes expensive, but still, not many can get such a rich experience in life. And from now on, you're one of those members in the elite group who cannot be easily taken for a ride

Originally Posted by GTO

That's why I've become a fan of cars that are fast in factory tune itself and need nothing other than a remap or power box to sprint even quicker

Million times & again I will agree to this!!

My simple point...if a big team of few 100 educated, trained & experienced people can work together on a super high budget & give a product, and if there's a single head that can beat those folks altogether, then what's that single head doing here in India? Shouldn't he be another Bose by now?

[yzfrj]

Originally Posted by aargee

My simple point...if a big team of few 100 educated, trained & experienced people can work together on a super high budget & give a product, and if there's a single head that can beat those folks altogether, then what's that single head doing here in India? Shouldn't he be another Bose by now?

Going by this logic, it should be impossible for somebody who doesn't belong in a factory to achieve something like this:

http://www.bikeexif.com/britten-v1000

[wolfy]

Oh sh*t!
You have been Joeled eh!
Hindsight is 20/20. After all those threads on the "dreams" forum from this said expert, all I can say is, "you shouldn't have bro!".

But I know you being you, will only learn and build that dream baleno.. keep that chin up and build it yourself, just to prove. it will be sweet!

Cheers!

[fieroid]

James, you have manipulated enough and started creating jokes about our work for a while now. We have substantial proof to show how your manipulation is being framed.
You got us Chinese parts and a turbo for your build. More on this later!

[SatsMumbai]

James, I am very sorry to hear your bad experience. Though I did not have personally such an experience, but I can relate it to some extent with all the audio builds, smaller performance enhancements in the car and number of days it takes with minimal returns. I am quite aware of Bangalore auto rickshaw scene and I can only feel more sorry for your frustrated walk in the night.

As others mentioned, even I have become wiser the same way, get a stock car with all the things that needed already factory fitted and enjoy the drive. Thank you for sharing experience.

[SnS_12]

One look at the craftsmanship and it tells the complete story. This is a horrid job.

Looks like Race Concepts and Joel have their hands full and are not able to give the attention each and every customer deserves. This would explain the jugaad work done on your car, or, maybe that's how they do mods on each customers car.

I am really glad that I did not got the turbo way as the costs related to getting a turbo car are phenomenal (if you do it the right way) and also the many weekends you would spend in the garage tuning your car. And even after doing all this, its not necessary you will achieve the end result as desired. This thread can be a good eye opener for many who desire to go the turbo way and destroy a beautiful car.

[scorpian]

James,
Thanks for opening this thread,its an eye opener for a lot of us.

Years back i was taken for a mini ride by the so called tuners of the fastest Vtec in Bangalore.I stopped right there after driving all the way for 600 plus kilometres to be taken for a ride.

Post that i have limited my interaction with tuners as they tend to be making money and not delivering anything.
I hope you get to the build you always wanted,all the best!

[hiran77]

Hello All,

While Everybody here is trying to pull down Joel. I do not see anyone talking about his positive builds. I am in no way against James and do not know the complete story. It is one side of the story.

Here's mine.

I have a Ford Ikon which has clocked 1,50,000 kms and has visited few other "so called tuners" in Bangalore claiming to give great performance with their works. Needless to say it was all talk no proof.

Suddenly I see a youngster beating the out of so called professional tuners with 10-20 years of experience and rally breed tuners.
So I take my car to him, clearly explain my requirements (my car already has an aftermarket cam). Before this I have had two sets of exhausts (by certain so called experts, sounded good no great gains)

First set of work I got done from was the complete header and exhaust. Trust me this is when I realized the true potential of my aftermarket cam. Both the works (Joel+CAM) worked great. This showed in the dyno results too.

Looking at the gains, I was considering cylinder head work as well. Since it was an old old car and a FORD, which every tuner shies away from, was a bit scared. But went ahead with it.

After the head work, the car simply flies all the way to the redline with phenomenal improvement in torque! Dyno results show me the same.

Also, I had valve cover leak issues which were fixed during the cylinder head work. Car runs cooler (earlier used to heat up a bit due to the age factor)

I haven't driven it much since its my second car now. But every time I take it for a spin, it brings out a smile.

Now this is not to pull down james on his bad experience, but to support a tuner I have been happy with.

Mod Note : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this.

Thanks

[KALINGA]

Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use a spell-checker.

[keroo1099]

I don't think it's fair to blackball all tuners, and to say that only the manufacturer knows best. If one is sensible, a good tuner can stretch the capabilities of a car to a point where it won't break, and still has enough of a safety margin. Asking for a huge increase in performance is playing with fire.

One must undestand that any mod. made to the drivetrain/mechanicals involves a risk, that you must be prepared for. The greater the modification the greater the risk. I guess I have been lucky, because all my vehicles (6 so far over the years) have been modded to a certain extent by a couple of tuners in Bangalore, and I have never had a major problem with any. My 10 year old Swift which like all previous cars has been driven hard on occasions has clocked 70k, and while some of the OE parts have packed up the engine which is modded is still going strong, and considering what I spent on the mod has been an absolute bargain and a hoot to drive.

Yes, if a manufacturer gave me the option of an engine with different states of tune like the do in other parts of the world, I most probably would go for the factory option, but since they don't I take the tuner path to extract a teeny weeny bit more fun for a little more cash, rather than plonking down a huge sum of money on a more expensive car to get those extra ponies.

[fieroid]

@james - Well you have said all that you wanted to in your own right. Appreciate your efforts in coming out in the open and talking. Whatever you felt is right in your own accord! I will put forth my version in due course.

@others - I have been a part of the automobile forums and I know a lot of them here. Some who pat your back when you do well and the same who spat when things went "wrong". In this case, the client has expressed his opinion. Whatever is right or wrong we will come to later. I dont understand why the entire tuning scenario is being compared and why pull x/y/z tuner into the picture. There are very few who grow the guts to tune a car and the rest just watch and wait to see whats going wrong with builds. There is no perfectly tuned performance car, unless and untill the mods done are very minimal like an exhaust or a stock replacement car or airintake system etc. In the case of turbocharging a car with a stock compression ratio of over 9:1 its going to be a known risk. The fun factor of owning the car overrides the marginal drop in engine life that probably occurs after a hundred thousand kms. However a wrong tune or setup could ruin it instantly. Likewise, one persons opinion on his experience if its framed right or wrong can easily ruin the reputation of the person behind the build.

I can see how this thread is gaining popularity and with people knowing little or none about tuning come-up with their own discussion groups to thrash the person in question. If they know the truth or not!

All we can say is that, the car in question came to us over 2 years ago with the owner bringing his own parts from wherever that he sourced. We did as per his orders. A rubber hose and an aluminium gasket is being the topic of discussion and being quoted that we did this and that. We have treated all our "ground up" builds with immense care and with the parts that we choose to have. If someone has brought-in a car which was built by another tuner (8 years ago) and then expected us to turn it into a turbo package with chinese bucket parts and with manifold etc, well its too much to discuss here. We built the owner the right car the way he wanted. With the parts he gave and with the last minute deadline that was set to us.
How it went....

Zahin handed over the car to us with a chinese turbo and a host of chinese parts, including a BOV, used RD piggy back, boost gauge etc. The car was already an NA build with a shaved head, cam, intake, exhaust etc and some piggy back ECU by another tuner. We clearly mentioned that we "will only install the parts and take no responsibility of the build" since the build was never as per my choice. Simply put the turbo was an IHI replica of an oversize blower for a Mitsu Evo. Way above the limit for a 1600cc 90hp baleno with stock internals. Then we were asked to "make to fit" into the engine bay with the completely bizarre exhaust manifold and even use an NA cam for a turbo build.

The cylinder head was replaced with a stock one and worked on from scratch. We had to go through unwanted trouble to"make fit" parts that were not technically right. Zahin insisted we did so. I repeated myself that the turbo and rest wont work.

The folks at RD took nearly 5 weeks to return the car (which is blamed on us) which the owner was very much aware and was in touch with employees at RD directly. The car too long to get wired since the previous piggyback module was a task to remove with wires butchered everywhere. A few days later the car was complete with the mechanical work and we put the car on the dyno. It read just over 100hp at the wheels and with boost spiking dangerously over 1 bar on a stock engine with the chinese wastegate being of not much help to control the boost with the softest boost rated spring. So like predicted the chinese turbo didnt work as what we explained on day one.

Zahin had his hands dirty on the project already and wanted to ensure its built somehow and asked us for a turbo replacement. We had none. A few days later we got our hands on a replica GT25 with a Honda ebay manifold with a hand cut flange. Zahin gave us a few days to finish the car with the new turbo setup, new plumbing, new downpipe and stuffs when again the work was not to my taste. The honda manifold flange was cut and replaced with a Baleno flange (which was clearly reported to Zahin that it was a make-shift) and he wanted the car to be finished in any case or threatend to tow away. With the changes we headed to the dyno and the car was sorted on the dyno. He had a target of 150whp. We handed over 165whp @ around 7-8 psi boost at peak. He left happy to mangalore. Didnt hear from him for over a year. In Aug 2015, I got a few calls on my phone during the round 5 of our National series while I Chennai. I sent a message. Once picked the call and told him I'm busy. Got back to bangalore and spoke to him for over 35 mins. Zahin explained that he had a broken hose and a ripped exhaust gasket flange. Well every tuned car needs maintenace. We have seen the factory garrett 3 layered turbo gasket puncture with useage and boost pressure. My team of mechs and fabricators have come a long way since 2013 and 2014. Its 2016 now and we have a class leading fabrication team now. I explained to Zahin clearly that it not an issue and he can have all the work done for FREE and all he has to do is bring down the car. That conversation was on Aug 27th at 2.30 pm. He obliged and said he will try. Thats it I havent heard from him after that except for a christmas greeting on 25th Dec 2015. And now this. I beg to understand how difficult it is for someone to ask for help if there is any trouble. And I have been watching how Zahin has been posting elsewhere on social media etc about how his car went wrong since a few weeks. The last conversation was 9 months ago and where was he for 9 months?

Its very easy to make the tuning community look bad. Its one thing if someone really messed with a car or build and never showed any responsibility of the happenings, but even after responding to queries and attending to minor hiccups the blame game is still on. I dont know what to say!

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by fieroid

Its very easy to make the tuning community look bad.......

Joel, I have not and will not comment on this particular instance as it's a one's word against another's scenario (and I don't know either party to have a fair opinion), but given your obvious passion/drive/ambition to be a class leading tuning organisation, I'm curious why you agreed at all to do a build with incompatible parts when you knew it won't work even before you started?

One can understand a layman enthusiast being foolhardy just because he wants to 'get there somehow', but wouldn't a professional be expected to be prudent with what's (im)possible? Why agree to fit the proverbial 'square pegs in rounds holes' in the first place?

[deepfreak15]

Is there anyway we can get a factual review of what transpired , reason I ask it might help a)Someone who would want to mod their vehicle b)Someone who is planning on using the mentioned company . Since we have both parties as TBhp members it should be possible to get an overall view without turning it into a tennis match, right ?

[fieroid]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Joel, I have not and will not comment on this particular instance as it's a one's word against another's scenario (and I don't know either party to have a fair opinion), but given your obvious passion/drive/ambition to be a class leading tuning organisation, I'm curious why you agreed at all to do a build with incompatible parts when you knew it won't work even before you started?

One can understand a layman being foolhardy just because he wants to 'get there somehow', but wouldn't a professional be expected to be prudent with what's (im)possible? Why agree to fit the proverbial square pegs in rounds holes in the first place?

Chetan, I had the same doubt when Zahin contacted me for the build. Zahin had picked up the parts from Binz (Binoy) all of which was on sale on tbhp. I clearly told Zahin that its not to my taste and its ONLY going to be an INSTALL since he insisted us to carry out the work. I had clearly mentioned that the massive 16g or 20g replica chinese turbo and parts is not going to work but since it came as work to us, we went ahead with it. Later the build was hurried up with another replica turbo which the first one didnt work.

Now did his car blow after two years? NO!

He felt his engine might blow since the oil was leaking!

So whats the fuss about, that his makeshift manifold and parts are not looking good and we put an 1.2mm Aluminium gasket and a hydraulic hose for the return and main line. We blocked off the water line since the replica turbo's journal shaft was looking too fragile to leak water into. This was my first and last build with chinese parts since the owner wanted a cheap build. A really cheap build. I wonder why I agreed to take up the build.

Like I said previously, we have technically come a long way since 2014 with our builds and we are 4 years in the business with cars. We have constantly worked towards improving the quality of our builds and the cars speak for themselves. Its like asking Bajaj why their 2001 pulsars had so many issues in the year 2016 when they have almost perfected the design over 15 years.