[jaisha8]

Extremely glad to see that there are no more issues for Crysta reported here since March 2018.
It really shows that Toyota has worked hard to solve the issues immediately.
Great work!

[mkaysaw]

RUSTING INTERNALS ON A 24 MONTH OLD VEHICLE.

Just found out last night that the rear right window was halfway down when the car was started today morning.

The vehicle is parked on the road and could easily have been stolen and being in Delhi, if it rained last night (it's raining now) the entire interior would have been wet.

Turns out, the window is sagging and power windows were not working.

Vehicle sent to 36 Toyota, where they have spent the whole day trying to figure out the cause. The cause is simple, the entire door and internal mechanisms HAVE RUSTED AND TURNED TO DUST on this two year old 2.8Z.

Sad to add door rust to already badly rusted subframe and constant brake loss (disk skimming every 5k kms) with unbearable roof rattling and fascia buttons breaking as the list of issues on my vehicle.

The vehicle is not modified in any way.

Planning to dispose off of this rusty vehicle as soon as the 36 month period is over. Their quality has deteriorated beyond comprehension.

[beejay]

I have a 2017 G 2.8 AT Crysta.

This morning, the boot open warning icon on the instrument cluster has suddenly started flashing along with the warning chime. I took it to the service center immediately and they say they have to open the wiring harness to check and it will take two days.

They have given me an appointment on the 15th December, Posting it here, so
1. if there any pointers or others who faced something similar?
2. Is this an expensive fix?

Thank you

[Splendor]

Hi, I am planning to buy a new 2.4 diesel AT. can anyone let me know if the issues of braking, juddering and tyre burst has been resolved in the 2021 models. Thanks

[elMattador]

Toyota’s Reliability is now mere “Perception” and not actual Reality

We have been buying Toyota vehicles in India for the last 20 years starting all the way back since the original Qualis. Since then, we have bought multiple Innova’s across its various model generations – multiple units simultaneously separate for personal use within our family and for official use at our various company offices across the country.

The underlying rationale behind purchasing Toyotas has always been that they make a reliable, safe, sturdy, near indestructible product – hence my company’s clients, employees, my parents (who are senior citizens), my wife needn’t worry about being stranded on trips within the city or outstation and at the same time have no headaches with excessive service and spare costs etc etc. At the outset - I’ll be fair, this reliability is something we have enjoyed in the past but recent events have opened my eyes to the changing reality of this general perception.

Coming to my one of company’s Innovas, a 2018 Crysta 2.4GX MT:
In March 2021 the car was sent for routine 50,000km service and with a complaint of a small oil leak from underneath. The service advisor at MGF Toyota Gurgaon diagnosed the problem as a possible ruptured main seal between the transmission and engine which was strange as the car was just 3yrs old at the time and had never seen any kind of underbody damage or water damage. They wanted to lower the entire transmission and replace seals overnight, charge labour etc however, the SA verbally said just a tightening instead may do the job and to observe the car post service for a few days. No leaks were observed and we considered the matter closed.

On 26/07/21 after returning from a Gurgaon-Moradabad-Gurgaon work trip the previous day (Roughly ~400km), the car left a few tiny drops of oil on the driveway – immediately the car was sent to MGF Toyota Gurgaon with instructions to have the leaking seal replaced. It turns out a sperate gearbox retainer seal within had failed and needed to be replaced. We paid for labour, routine service, optionals etc as demanded by MGF, received the vehicle back and parked it at home.

On 30/07/21 after being driven barely a distance of 40km post service, on the way to my office the vehicle suddenly began losing drive upon acceleration to go up an entry ramp to NH48. Immediately I could tell the clutch was slipping whenever I applied more than approx. 30-40% throttle and something had gone wrong – the car was parked at my office.

On 31/07/21 It was taken back to the workshop where after half a day of diagnosis we were informed that the clutch, pressure plate, diaphragm are soaked in oil and hence the slip. MGF then presented us with a bill of almost ₹20,000/- to bear the cost of an entire new clutch kit including the pressure plate, bearing, clutch disc now on top of all the previous bills.

This was the final straw for me and completely baffling as:

• Not once had the clutch slipped prior to being handed over for service on 26/07/21. The car was driven at city speeds, highways speeds, required quick acceleration where required and there was no loss of drive ever even with >50% throttle input.
• The assigned MGF Toyota engineer / SA took the car on a strenuous road test before taking the car into the workshop and there was no slip observed in the clutch.
• During the service, while the car was with MGF on 26/07/21, there was no report of oil having travelled to the clutch. MGF claims that they mustn’t have seen the oil on the clutch at the time but this a complete lie as I had proactively asked the SA to check on the clutch since they were taking the transmission off and he reported back over the phone that it was clean and ok.
• Their job card on the 26th shows a line item: “clutch open” and they’ve charged me on the invoice for replaced parts – The Clutch Release Fork Seal, Clutch Release Fork Collar – so how could they not have seen oil on the clutch having done these jobs if in fact oil was present on the components originally.

It is only after the workshop attempted to replace the seals within the transmission that we experienced any slip which leads me to the conclusion that the work on the transmission on 26/07/21 was done in a faulty manner. Subsequently while driving on 30/07/21 the clutch and components may have gotten drenched in oil damaging the clutch and causing the slip.

After confronting the SA and escalations step by step, even up to the GM of Service with the above logic, they refused to take any accountability. I didn’t see why I had to foot the bill for their incompetent work and they continue to claim the oil was on the clutch previously and that they hadn’t seen it. They further claimed on 31/07/21 that the gearbox is not leaking anymore so I even suspect a cover up where they realized the deficiencies from their job on 26/07/21 when they received the vehicle back on 31/07/21 then fixed it before calling to inform me that the clutch was oil soaked so they could also make a sale from their spare parts inventory.

Coming back to the situation on hand, they finally came up with a stop gap solution of replacing just the clutch disc and cleaning the oil off other components. As the car is required for various work at the office this week, we were pressed for time and got just the clutch disc replaced by MGF – though I am not confident at all with how reliable the car will be going forward. I am considering taking this up with Toyota-Kirloskar India. If it fails again is there any further recourse?

This whole incident has left me jarred with Toyota’s claims of reliability and service experience - why should the internal seal have ruptured in the first place on a three year old car? The same vehicle even had one of its doors internal cavity fill up with water from rain seepage through the window somehow in the past. Even if there are part failures, the capability and integrity of their authorized service centres comes into question here – just look at the poor advise received at the start of the issue with the seal, then the shoddy repair job followed up by the suspected cover up.

What’s concerning going forward is that there’s multiple reports of Toyota’s declining quality across the forum here and no shortage of aggravated customers you overhear at the Service Center of late. Coupled with my recent experience, sadly I’ve definitely lost faith in the Toyota-Kirloskar brand. Moreover, I now sit embarrassed having recommended Toyota’s - based singularly on their claimed reliability and top service - to family, friends, business associates who’ve gone ahead and made multiple purchases from MGF/Toyota. All that stops now!

See Images Below:
Jobcard and Invoice from 26/07/2021 - clearly reads "clutch open" and replacement of the clutch Release Fork Seal, Release Fork Collar. If there was oil already on the clutch and components how could they not have seen it at this point? If there was oil on the clutch wouldn't we have detected slip before the service?



Clutch having run only 55,000km - showing perfectable acceptable wear but destroyed and soaked in oil due to service/repair incompetence. We've sold some of our older toyotas having driven them >150,000km without ever having to replace any transmission components!


Quote of approx~ ₹20,000 for the entire clutch kit. Later they came up with the stop gap solution to just replace the clutch disc and billed me for it. But is this up to toyota international repair standard? I am not confident!

[Kosfactor]

Engine main seal leaking oil into the clutch can happen , but this is a bit early. Is this vehicle usually driven by a driver?

[elMattador]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Engine mail seal leaking oil into the clutch can happen , but this is a bit early. Is this vehicle usually driven by a driver?

My driver, my father and I are the only people who drive this vehicle. Both my father and my driver have more years of driving experience than I have been alive! Neither of them have bad driving habbits such as riding the clutch, rough shifting etc - the transmission/clutch life of ALL our other cars is testament to this. We mostly drive our clients around in this vehicle so its driven sedately.

Thank you for your input on the expected life of these parts - I agree, it's quite premature for any of them to fail. My doubts with MGF's work though is:

1. They diagnosed the main seal was not at fault when they lowered the transmission from the chassis. It turned out to be the Gear Box retainer seal.
   
2. If the oil had infact seeped onto the clutch prior to handing the vehicle over to them on 26/07/21 - There isn't a logical answer so far as to why no slip was detected prior - just the previous day on a 400km highway run or during the pre-service road test where they really flogged the vehicle.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by elMattador

is:

1. They diagnosed the main seal was not at fault when they lowered the transmission from the chassis. It turned out to be the Gear Box retainer seal.
   
2. If the oil had infact seeped onto the clutch prior to handing the vehicle over to them on 26/07/21 - There isn't a logical answer so far as to why no slip was detected prior - just the previous day on a 400km highway run or during the pre-service road test where they really flogged the vehicle.

Transmission seal leak is rare, usually transmission fluids last a long time and gets replaced before it can do any damage to the seals. Did you happen to see the color of the fluid that had leaked out?

[elMattador]

From what I understand too, MT transmission seals and oils in most cases can last the entire expected lifecycle of the vehicle.

When they elevated the car on the stand I got a look - the small oil drops hanging at the joint of the bell housing had a slight yellow hue.

In hindsight, I wish I took a picture! At the time I never expected further issues with the dealer/vehicle.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by elMattador

From what I understand too, MT transmission seals and oils in most cases can last the entire expected lifecycle of the vehicle.

When they elevated the car on the stand I got a look - the small oil drops hanging at the joint of the bell housing had a slight yellow hue.

In hindsight, I wish I took a picture! At the time I never expected further issues with the dealer/vehicle.

That would be the transmission oil indeed, engine oil would have been black on account of it being diesel.