Sputtering Zen !!

nogutsnoglory · 16th October 2006, 22:46

Hi guys,
I have a 98' model Zen VX.I had an LPG kit on and it was running smoothly all these years.Last month I removed the kit(due to RTO problems) and started running solely on petrol.Ever since the car has witnesses a dramatic drop in performance.Its pick-up is totally gone and also it has devloped starting problems in the morning. I had it serviced and tuned in a maruthi showroom, but the problem persists.The first 5-10 minutes after starting in the morning are the worst.The car keeps spluttering and missing.After this period it runs ok, but still the pickup is very low.Could anyone tell me what the problem could be? The car has done 72000 km but I dont think the engine is the culprit.Please give me some suggestions

nitrous · 16th October 2006, 23:25

All u need is a tune-up,bro.
Go to a good mech.

fieroid · 17th October 2006, 05:30

if u were happy with the ags kit, they why dont u opt for a RTO approved kit with a tank..its far more economical to run. also carb settings can change a lot due to change of fuel .check for jet sizes and setting.

santhoshx · 17th October 2006, 09:56

I have Lpg fitted zen. I had similar problem. Please let your car to cool down in workshop and ask them to check cold start. All cylinders may be not firing initially. It happened to me due to bad petrol. Or may be with fuel filter and petrol tank which is not clean. A good service should definitely solve your problem. (Ask mechanic to check the fuel pump also.)

santhoshx · 17th October 2006, 10:20

Just to clarify when i said bad petrol i actually meant unused petrol. I filled petrol 4 months before and was not using much. Mechanic said over period such long time the quality of petrol goes down.

esteem_lover · 17th October 2006, 12:15

i find no reason why a good tune up of your car should not rectify this problem. as pointed out by santosh, old petrol could have clogged your carburettor. service the carb, replace the fuel filter, check the plugs, plug chords, timing etc. & your car should be fine. maruti guys will not look into these things unless you specifically tell them to. if you had already told them & if they have taken it down in their job sheet, then get back to them & insist that they rectify the problems. please prevail on them & get it done. you are paying money & they are supposed to satisfy their customers. do not feel bad about taking it back. cheers

shazikon · 17th October 2006, 12:51

Just ask your tuner/mechanic test the ignition timing properly.. my guess is the timing is not right.

nogutsnoglory · 17th October 2006, 22:33

thanks a lot for all those replies guys.I will get this checked again by the maruti guys on thursday.will update after that is done.By the way I was pleasantly surprised when the dealer(Pratham) called me up asking whether I satisfied with the service.I took the opportunity to say that some problems persisted and they agreed to look into it whenever I wanted.Pretty good customer care at least!!

AvinashKeezh · 17th October 2006, 22:49

one problem could be because of the the unused petrol and the next possible chance could be because of the difference in the tunings for both LPG and petrol. u might just have to ask your mech to clean up the petrol reservoir and the supply tubes and do a de-re-tune on the the carb and timings for the engine. this should have the engine back to levels much better than what u had with the LPG
AK

Jaggu · 17th October 2006, 22:55

check fuel/fuel lines/tanks and carbs thorough
do a pakka tune up including tappet adjustments and timing set, check plugs for plug gaps, clean ur distributor caps check plug wires and you should be fine

esteem_lover · 18th October 2006, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogutsnoglory

thanks a lot for all those replies guys.I will get this checked again by the maruti guys on thursday.will update after that is done.By the way I was pleasantly surprised when

Quote:

the dealer(Pratham) called me up asking whether I satisfied with the service.I took the opportunity to say that some problems persisted and they agreed to look into it whenever I wanted.Pretty good customer care at least!!

got used to such things with maruti...if only they bring out cars to match

nogutsnoglory · 21st October 2006, 10:47

hey guys..just an update on my zen...after taking it to the service centre and taking the mechanic on a drive, he was finally able to pinpoint the problem. It was some cracked vacuum pipe. He also overhualed th timing system. Drove the zen for 100 + kms after that.All probs seem solved.Ofcourse because I also drive my brand new swift, the zen does seem a bit bland and rattly, but hey its still a great car.
Thanks to all you people who helped me out with advice and A HAPPY DIWALI to all

BMW · 22nd October 2006, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogutsnoglory

He also overhualed th timing system.

Could you please elaborate as to what exactly did the guy do to the timing system? What all parts were replaced?

Thanks.

nogutsnoglory · 23rd October 2006, 12:29

well i am not very aware of what he exactly did, but he mentioned that the timing was off as the car was now being driven on petrol. I am pretty sure he did not replace any parts.

BMW · 23rd October 2006, 13:42

OK... got it now

Since you were previously using LPG, the timing must have been advanced by 2 degrees to cater to high octane value of LPG. The guy would have set the timing accordingly for Petrol after you reported the problems.

Apart from setting the timing and changing the vacuum pipe, did they overhaul the carb too?

16th October 2006, 22:46	#1
nogutsnoglory Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Posts: 14 Thanked: 0 Times	Hi guys, I have a 98' model Zen VX.I had an LPG kit on and it was running smoothly all these years.Last month I removed the kit(due to RTO problems) and started running solely on petrol.Ever since the car has witnesses a dramatic drop in performance.Its pick-up is totally gone and also it has devloped starting problems in the morning. I had it serviced and tuned in a maruthi showroom, but the problem persists.The first 5-10 minutes after starting in the morning are the worst.The car keeps spluttering and missing.After this period it runs ok, but still the pickup is very low.Could anyone tell me what the problem could be? The car has done 72000 km but I dont think the engine is the culprit.Please give me some suggestions
	() Thanks

16th October 2006, 23:25	#2
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	All u need is a tune-up,bro. Go to a good mech.
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 05:30	#3
fieroid BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: bangalore Posts: 706 Thanked: 304 Times	if u were happy with the ags kit, they why dont u opt for a RTO approved kit with a tank..its far more economical to run. also carb settings can change a lot due to change of fuel .check for jet sizes and setting.
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 09:56	#4
santhoshx BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore/New Jersey Posts: 47 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	I have Lpg fitted zen. I had similar problem. Please let your car to cool down in workshop and ask them to check cold start. All cylinders may be not firing initially. It happened to me due to bad petrol. Or may be with fuel filter and petrol tank which is not clean. A good service should definitely solve your problem. (Ask mechanic to check the fuel pump also.)
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 10:20	#5
santhoshx BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore/New Jersey Posts: 47 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	Just to clarify when i said bad petrol i actually meant unused petrol. I filled petrol 4 months before and was not using much. Mechanic said over period such long time the quality of petrol goes down.
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 12:15	#6
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	i find no reason why a good tune up of your car should not rectify this problem. as pointed out by santosh, old petrol could have clogged your carburettor. service the carb, replace the fuel filter, check the plugs, plug chords, timing etc. & your car should be fine. maruti guys will not look into these things unless you specifically tell them to. if you had already told them & if they have taken it down in their job sheet, then get back to them & insist that they rectify the problems. please prevail on them & get it done. you are paying money & they are supposed to satisfy their customers. do not feel bad about taking it back. cheers
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 12:51	#7
shazikon BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 391 Thanked: 24 Times View My Garage	Just ask your tuner/mechanic test the ignition timing properly.. my guess is the timing is not right.
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 22:33	#8
nogutsnoglory Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Posts: 14 Thanked: 0 Times	thanks a lot for all those replies guys.I will get this checked again by the maruti guys on thursday.will update after that is done.By the way I was pleasantly surprised when the dealer(Pratham) called me up asking whether I satisfied with the service.I took the opportunity to say that some problems persisted and they agreed to look into it whenever I wanted.Pretty good customer care at least!!
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 22:49	#9
AvinashKeezh BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 234 Thanked: 11 Times	one problem could be because of the the unused petrol and the next possible chance could be because of the difference in the tunings for both LPG and petrol. u might just have to ask your mech to clean up the petrol reservoir and the supply tubes and do a de-re-tune on the the carb and timings for the engine. this should have the engine back to levels much better than what u had with the LPG AK
	() Thanks

17th October 2006, 22:55	#10
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	check fuel/fuel lines/tanks and carbs thorough do a pakka tune up including tappet adjustments and timing set, check plugs for plug gaps, clean ur distributor caps check plug wires and you should be fine
	() Thanks

21st October 2006, 10:47	#12
nogutsnoglory Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Posts: 14 Thanked: 0 Times	hey guys..just an update on my zen...after taking it to the service centre and taking the mechanic on a drive, he was finally able to pinpoint the problem. It was some cracked vacuum pipe. He also overhualed th timing system. Drove the zen for 100 + kms after that.All probs seem solved.Ofcourse because I also drive my brand new swift, the zen does seem a bit bland and rattly, but hey its still a great car. Thanks to all you people who helped me out with advice and A HAPPY DIWALI to all
	() Thanks

23rd October 2006, 12:29	#14
nogutsnoglory Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Posts: 14 Thanked: 0 Times	well i am not very aware of what he exactly did, but he mentioned that the timing was off as the car was now being driven on petrol. I am pretty sure he did not replace any parts.
	() Thanks

23rd October 2006, 13:42	#15
BMW BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 39 Thanked: Once	OK... got it now Since you were previously using LPG, the timing must have been advanced by 2 degrees to cater to high octane value of LPG. The guy would have set the timing accordingly for Petrol after you reported the problems. Apart from setting the timing and changing the vacuum pipe, did they overhaul the carb too?
	() Thanks