[audioholic]

Originally Posted by pareshraheja

Which year did you purchase your car. Mine is 2015 Oct buy and during my regular service last year in Oct, I had asked RNS to let me know the possibility of the 5th year EW. The SA checked the system and said that, it's not available for my car since I had already gone past the normal 2 year warranty and was in the EW zone of 2nd year.

If there is possibility, I'd love to purchase the 5th year EW immediately.

IIRC, it can be brought if your car is still under the standard warranty period. Mine was brought in August 2016 and had covered 19975kms at the time of service. Hence I was eligible to buy the fifth year warranty. I am not sure if you are eligible now since your car is already two years old. For me, that 3k cost was peanuts compared to facing an AMT failure in the fifth year since by then the module would have been abused badly in traffic and I dont think twice before a kickdown and frequent gearshifts.

[jomson13]

Hey Guys,

My celerio has just completed 15k kms. I bought it in Feb '17.
I face some juddering in 2nd gear when the car shifts early and slips the clutch. This happens on inclines when the car is loaded or just after a speed breaker.

I feel that this issue can be resolved quite a bit if they change the software to make the car shift down completely into the 1st gear on such occasions. Don't know on the impact this would have on the mileage, but i'm sure it will reduce the juddering quite a bit.

Is it possible for the service center fellows to change this? More importantly - should i experiment with making this change at the service center? The maruti service center that I visit does not instill too much confidence in me for such 'unusual' requests.

Adding my name to the list:

The list of members facing the juddering issue stands as:
1) audioholic - Bangalore
2) sparky - Rajkot
3) hillsnrains - Bangalore
4) prasanna_indaje - Bangalore
5) joe-Ker - Chennai
6) jomson13 - Pune

[motorguy]

Originally Posted by audioholic

IIRC, it can be brought if your car is still under the standard warranty period. Mine was brought in August 2016 and had covered 19975kms at the time of service. Hence I was eligible to buy the fifth year warranty. I am not sure if you are eligible now since your car is already two years old. For me, that 3k cost was peanuts compared to facing an AMT failure in the fifth year since by then the module would have been abused badly in traffic and I dont think twice before a kickdown and frequent gearshifts.

This is correct. Manufacturers will not give you the option to buy the 5th year warranty unless you are in the standard warranty period. Tried to buy it for my i20 and the Hyundai dealer said the same thing.

I guess its because post standard warranty, there is more wearing out of components and the time that the manfacturer can hold on to your cash is much less (and thereby making him less income in terms of interest on your money).

[pareshraheja]

Originally Posted by motorguy

Manufacturers will not give you the option to buy the 5th year warranty unless you are in the standard warranty period

Agreed! But in my case, Maruti never had the option of 5th year EW when I bought the car. When they introduced the same, I was already in the 2nd year of EW.

On the contrary, for my Fiesta, I remember Ford calling me 15 days before my 2nd year EW was about to expire and they asked me whether I'd like to take another year of EW @ xxx cost which, I gleefully accepted.

[Sparky]

My celerio underwent parts replacement as under at 21.7k.

1) Clutch Set
2) Flywheel
3) Throttle Body Assy.

Last clutch set replacement was at 13k, so I am not expecting any issues for 7-8k. But lets hope the replacement of above combo solves the issue permanently.

I asked the SA about the technical person who suggested to replace above combo. He said his name is Mr. Bhargav Jahlala, not sure on the last name as its been few days. My SA also explained that every state has regional technical center. If dealer cannot solve the issue, they can send the car to that center by paying fuel cost. For my case its in Ahmedabad. The regional technical center can get in contact with main technical center of the company depending on the issue. If the issue does not get solved even after replacing above combo, may be it time to send the car there.

In case the juddering comes back after 7-8k, I will be frustrated enough to drive the car directly to main center in north, park right in front of their main gate, with key stiking out of AMT unit.

[audioholic]

So its 2000kms after my 20k service and during the service I understand they have done some uograde to the software. Though I was not told anything about the same, I noticed from the customer lounge that they had plugged in the SDT and I thought it was for the AC cooling complaint. However there were the following changes in the AMT behaviour:

• Transmission was reinitialized. I could notice that my training to it was gone and it used to shift up very early like before. I took it around town and made it readapt to my driving style, ie higher shift points and now it is back to how I like it.
• However, downshift to first was more aggressive and it would slip the clutch less in second gear. This meant in most speed breakers, it used to shift to first and not slip clutch in second.
• Downshift in higher gears was made less aggressive and in third and above gears, it holds onto the gear for longer before Downshift in case we press hard on throttle
• Not sure if I hadn't noticed this earlier, but creep speed in front and reverse is now different. While forward creep is still the same at 6kmph, reverse creep is quite smooth and slower, and the speed is limited to 3kmph. This allows easier and more precise parking moves and doesnt need frequent braking like before. I am not sure if this is a recent change or it was the same earlier, since I had heard a few people complaining that reversing is a little jerky and we have to be careful.

I have even made a short video showing the difference in creep speeds forward and reverse:

https://youtu.be/MAMG4Zhy7jo

[Sparky]

In my celerio, the engine temperature plays part in reverse creep, I think. While the forward creep is almost constant at both, hot and cold, engine temperature; the reverse creep is sometimes aggressive under cold temperature. I didn't paid much attention to it, but now will make notice of it and will update if anything different. In all situations, I am always careful while backing up, keeping my foot on brake pedal only.

The other I would like to mention is when the engine is cold, the car tries hard not to downshift from 2nd gear. It would keep on going without any throttle input. Only if I press brake pedal, it will downshift. This is just rough observation, I will update if I find anything concrete.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by Sparky

In my celerio, the engine temperature plays part in reverse creep, I think. While the forward creep is almost constant at both, hot and cold, engine temperature; the reverse creep is sometimes aggressive under cold temperature. I didn't paid much attention to it, but now will make notice of it and will update if anything different. In all situations, I am always careful while backing up, keeping my foot on brake pedal only.

The other I would like to mention is when the engine is cold, the car tries hard not to downshift from 2nd gear. It would keep on going without any throttle input. Only if I press brake pedal, it will downshift. This is just rough observation, I will update if I find anything concrete.

The creep during cold conditions is faster because the idling rpm when the engine is cold is more as compared to when the engine has reached its operating temperature.

About your second point, there must be an algorithm in the system which would be making sure the engine stays at lower rpm's when it's in cold conditions to minimise wear and tear, hence its reluctance to shift to 1st.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by humyum

The creep during cold conditions is faster because the idling rpm when the engine is cold is more as compared to when the engine has reached its operating temperature.

Yes, you are right. But then it should be aggressive in forward creep also, which is not the case!

[ALTIMAed]

I hope the nasty head of the snake has not popped up.

The background

I have a July 2016 purchased Dzire Diesel AGS having done 29600 kms till date. I always get the car serviced every 5000 kms, engine oil change being the prime objective.

At the 25k service, engine oil was changed, air filter cleaned (it was changed at 20k service). Diesel filter too was replaced at 20k.

Most of my driving is within the city, with a few outstation trips / drives every alternate month. Till date no problem what so ever.

Tyre pressure (nitrogen) checked the previous evening.

On 19th May, Techo 9000 (Shubro) and myself drove down from Kolkata to Ranchi and returned back on 21st. The objective was to hand over Shubro's Maruti 800 to Leoshashi for a restoration. We had decided we shall not exceed 90 kmph as the Maruti 800 (fondly called Goldie by Shubro) was not in a good condition. We were supposed to leave at 4 pm, unfortunately due to some unexpected reason, I could leave Salt Lake by 11.15 AM. My car had more than a quarter tank of diesel, so I decided to tank up at Gopalpur, just before having lunch at Azad Hind Dhaba. After tanking up I reset the average reading. I usually tank up the the filling station opposite City center Salt Lake.

Since this shall be a sedate drive, I was looking forward to break my mileage record, the best having achieved is 27.8 kmpl.

After lunch, Shubro leading in his 800, we set off. After driving for about 150 kms I noticed the average to be stuck at 23 kmpl even though we did not exceed 100 kmph at any time. This was the first sign of uncomfort.

I also noticed, that the car was upshifting at low engine rpm even though I had the accelerator pressed half way. In other words the car was behaving as if it was being driven in the city. This gremlim cannot be noticed while driving in the city as one does not tend to exceed 40 to 50 kmph, specially on my daily drive route.

The low rpm shifting was constantly observed on the way back from Ranchi. Manual mode worked normally. I could touch 120 kmph easily, but each shift from 1-2-3-4-5 was happening at low rpm (around 1500).

On coming back to Kolkata, I reported the same to the service advisor who suggested we go for a drive on non crowded roads to check it out. 28th May this shall be done.

Experts - what do I keep in mind to tell the Service Advisor to check. Thanks in advance.

[xjosephjacob]

Experts, any thoughts on the long term wear and tear on gearbox when one frequently uses an AMT car in manual/triptronic mode alone ? Please take in to consideration that the driver will always lift the leg from the accelerator when he changes the gear, just the way he would drive a regular manual transmission car.

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by audioholic

• Transmission was reinitialized. I could notice that my training to it was gone and it used to shift up very early like before. I took it around town and made it readapt to my driving style, ie higher shift points and now it is back to how I like it.

The nasty early up-shift is a real pain every time I drive my wife's Celerio. Not at all my style of driving. It would be really helpful if you could give some details on how to retrain the TCM to do a later up-shift.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by bhp_maniac

[/list]The nasty early up-shift is a real pain every time I drive my wife's Celerio. Not at all my style of driving. It would be really helpful if you could give some details on how to retrain the TCM to do a later up-shift.

You need to teach the nasty kid a lesson.

Whenever you face an early shift, initiate a kick down. The transmission will roll back to the previous gear. In case you are at 3, 4, 5 gears then dont be too harsh on the pedal. Else it will downshift to 1 or 2 which will cause a sudden roar and the car will take off. Once you feel that the transmission is upshifting, increase throttle input until it comes back to your intended gear. This will make the TCM learn your preference. After around 10-15 kms of learning, the shift points will permanently settle at a higher RPM.

In my car, the shift points have changed well. 1-2 happens at 20kmph, 2-3 at 40, 3-4 at around 50-55 and 4-5 happens at 70 with a light foot and 90 with medium throttle. I rarely face an issue of early upshift now.

[ajayclicks]

Originally Posted by jomson13

Hey Guys,

Adding my name to the list:

The list of members facing the juddering issue stands as:
1) audioholic - Bangalore
2) sparky - Rajkot
3) hillsnrains - Bangalore
4) prasanna_indaje - Bangalore
5) joe-Ker - Chennai
6) jomson13 - Pune

Adding to this list. Have a year old Wagon R with AMT (~7K kms). Felt the juddering issue in 1st and 2nd gear while driving in the city over the weekend.

The list of members facing the juddering issue stands as:
1) audioholic - Bangalore
2) sparky - Rajkot
3) hillsnrains - Bangalore
4) prasanna_indaje - Bangalore
5) joe-Ker - Chennai
6) jomson13 - Pune
7) ajayclicks- Bangalore

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by xjosephjacob

Experts, any thoughts on the long term wear and tear on gearbox when one frequently uses an AMT car in manual/triptronic mode alone ? Please take in to consideration that the driver will always lift the leg from the accelerator when he changes the gear, just the way he would drive a regular manual transmission car.

Missed this one. Technically, the manual mode is just a request switch and the AMT module is what finally decides if the gearshift happens or not. Hence, the process followed by the AMT module is the same, except that in regular driving these shifts are triggered based on its own logic, while in manual mode the request from the driver is what triggers a shift. Hence, there wont be much of a difference in wear and tear between driving it in manual mode or auto. In fact, in manual mode, the number of shifts will be comparatively lesser since in automatic mode the AMT shifts quite frequently and shifts up early. Hence, if you compare the number of shifts done automatically for the same stretch of driving, it will be more than what you would shift manually. Hence, there is no concern about wear and tear while driving in manual mode.

Irrespective of whether you press accelerator or let go of it, the AMT unit instructs ECU to cut the throttle input during the gearshift and once the shift is done, throttle inputs are back to how the accelerator is pressed. This is what causes the momentary lag at some gears and speeds.