[honeybee]

Originally Posted by MBond007

... The clutch pedal had completely sank At first I thought that somebody might have stolen the clutch pedal, but later realised that it was there lying there, lifeless. Lifted it back to position, but there was no response.
...

I am no clutch expert, but I tend to agree it looks like a hydraulic issue.

Do get a second opinion from a different mechanic. Also if possible, please check the level of the clutch fluid. In many cars the brakes and the clutch use the same fluid/reservoir.

The release or throwout bearing is activated by the hydraulic mechanism, so at least I am not sure if a bad bearing would lead to a loss of clutch fluid.

If the bearing indeed is the culprit and has to be replaced, however, then the gearbox must be opened up, whoch would cost you labour. Now it's your decision to make the best of the labour charges and get the whole assembly replaced or just get the bearing replaced. New bearing with old plate/clutch could cause wear and tear. Also the plate and clutch might give up in another 10 or 15k kms after which you may have to open it up and replace it anyway.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by MBond007

Strange thing happened this Saturday morning when I went to take out my Fiat Linea TJet for a drive. The clutch pedal had completely sank:

Looks like a failed master or slave cylinder to me. The piston inside those cylinders may have corroded or jammed. Or may be the pushback spring of the piston gave up. It shouldn't be too costly to repair, if this indeed is the problem. Check the clutch fluid level/ top up if necessary. It will also lead to (if) any leakages.
Go for a second opinion.

Regards,
Saket

[MBond007]

It is very heartening to get valuable inputs from fellow BHPians . Thank you !
As suggested, I will definitely go for a second opinion.

[MBond007]

Update:
Got the car inspected by another mechanic from World of Service (would like to thank Mr. Anupam for arranging the visit). The mechanic (Vijendra) said that the slave cylinder seems to have gone bad. He said that since this is a TJet, entire gearbox will have to removed to change the cylinder. He also said that the cylinder comes with the bearing, so effectively, the bearing has to changed.
His diagnosis is same as that of the Fiat mechanic.

He also said that the car has to towed, charge Rs 1000-1500. Will it be ok if I drive the car to the garage/service center in first gear? The distance is approximately 4 km from my home.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by MBond007

The mechanic (Vijendra) said that the slave cylinder seems to have gone bad. He said that since this is a TJet, entire gearbox will have to removed to change the cylinder. He also said that the cylinder comes with the bearing, so effectively, the bearing has to changed.

Actually, yes I do recall that on several Fiats the gearbox has to come out to replace the slave cylinder. Not sure, as I am not that familiar with this particular type.

I am not sure why the cylinder would come with the bearing. These are very much individual parts. However, taking the gearbox out is a big job and it usually makes sense to replace other wear/tear parts as well. You might want to consider replacing the clutch as well, depending on how it looks.

In India it works a bit different than in Europe. Here labour rates are very high and very often exceed parts prices by a good margin. Even if it might not be such an obvious case financially, it might still be good to consider replacing everything, especially if you aim to keep the car for some more years. Peace of mind comes at a price too, I’m afraid

Jeroen

[MBond007]

Thanks a lot Jeroen. I probably will get the entire unit replaced. Have recently bought the car and plan to keep it for atleast 3-4 years.

Will it be ok if the car is driven to the service center? The mechanic said that he can drive the car in first gear. Will it do any harm to other components?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by MBond007

Will it be ok if the car is driven to the service center? The mechanic said that he can drive the car in first gear. Will it do any harm to other components?

No problem driving it in first gear.

We once drove an Alfa Spider some 30 miles with no clutch actuation. If you are brave you can use all the gears, takes a a bit of experience getting it into gear without too much noise and grinding. The only issue is starting. You need to get some guys to give you a push, an if you have to stop the engine will stall. Not a huge thing.

Jeroen

[MBond007]

Got the clutch assembly replaced along with the slave cylinder in the TJet. Final bill was around 28K. Turned out that the gear/engine mounts were also nearing their end, so they were also replaced.

Now a new issue has come up . At times engaging the reverse gear is a bit of issue. Sometimes it grinds when I try to put it in reverse. This issue is intermittent and is only with reverse gear. This issue was not there before the clutch assembly was replaced.

Took it to Sahil Service Centere, Noida, where the clutch was replaced. The SA, Mr. O.P. Sharma said that since the clutch plate is new, it will take some time to set in. He said that with time this issue will go away. I am not convinced with this logic. Is this a common phenomenon with new clutch plates? help

[bravo82in]

I own a Tata Aria, Pride 4x4, 2011 model which has clocked down one lac kms. The car has always been serviced and repaired at Tata Authorised centers. The clutch was replaced at 91k kms in Nov 2018 with a bill of Rs 11700/-.
I am now posted to a small town and nearest Tata ASC is about 70 kms away. Fews days back while going uphill the gear shift rod broke and car was stuck in 3rd gear. The driver revved the engine with half clutch engaged and there was some smell and smoke coming from engine. The car was pushed to one side to clear the traffic. The gear rod was repaired by a local mechanic. He said the clutch was ok and i can continue using the car. I could notice a change in position of gear shift, how ever the car was running smooth.

The vehicle is sparingly used and last week i drove it for 10 kms, parked it for an hour. When i started the engine the just could not shift to any gear from neutral. I turned the engine off and i was able to shift between gears, butter smooth. Called up a local mechanic who engaged the first gear, pressed the clutch and cranked the engine. The engine started with a little jerk and was able to shift between gears.
Now the scenario is:-
I am able to shift between gears with the engine off.
If i start the engine in neutral i am unable shift to any gear.
If i start the engine with gear engaged and clutch pressed i can shift between gears as long as the vehicle is in motion. The gear shift while driving is not as smooth as it used to be. If the vehicle comes to a stand still it gets stuck in neutral.
Spoke to a couple of local mechanics who have varied opinions
1. 'Bleed the line' and it will be fine
2. The clutch is stuck/ jammed due to non usage
3. The clutch needs replacement.
Non of them have ever worked on Aria before.
I am in a fix, any inputs from the Gurus will be of great help.

[PGA]

Originally Posted by bravo82in

Spoke to a couple of local mechanics who have varied opinions
1. 'Bleed the line' and it will be fine
2. The clutch is stuck/ jammed due to non usage
3. The clutch needs replacement.
Non of them have ever worked on Aria before.
I am in a fix, any inputs from the Gurus will be of great help.

The primary problem is due to non disengagement of friction and clutch plates.

The cause of this problem could be
- Improper functioning of release bearing - would require dismantling of clutch system to repair/ replace.
- Diaphragm springs on pressure plate have become weak- solution same as above.
- Non functioning of master or slave cylinder- may not require opening of clutch assy. Most likely cause in my opinion, could have been caused by ingress of dust or moisture when you got the clutch work done. Bleeding is the first step to get them working.
- Lastly non standard clutch/ pressure plate used during last repair and that itself has given away.

Please visit a mechanic and ask him to check the serviceability of master and slave cylinder, bleed them if necessary. If they are ok and and the problem persists proceed with next steps.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by bravo82in

...
1. 'Bleed the line' and it will be fine
2. The clutch is stuck/ jammed due to non usage
3. The clutch needs replacement.

Is the 4x4 engaged? AWD?

Clutch bleeding is the cheapest you can try, including transmission fluid replacement.

Next up I would suggest you visit the TASC and have them troubleshoot the issue. It looks like a clutch issue, but having TASC work on it, you will have someone to hold accountable if the repairs are messed up.

Avoid driving the vehicle in this state as much as possible.

[bravo82in]

Originally Posted by PGA

The primary problem is due to non disengagement of friction and clutch plates.

The cause of this problem could be
- Improper functioning of release bearing - would require dismantling of clutch system to repair/ replace.
- Diaphragm springs on pressure plate have become weak- solution same as above.
- Non functioning of master or slave cylinder- may not require opening of clutch assy. Most likely cause in my opinion, could have been caused by ingress of dust or moisture when you got the clutch work done. Bleeding is the first step to get them working.
- Lastly non standard clutch/ pressure plate used during last repair and that itself has given away.

Please visit a mechanic and ask him to check the serviceability of master and slave cylinder, bleed them if necessary. If they are ok and and the problem persists proceed with next steps.

Will visit a mechanic as early as possible and try to get it checked. Hope bleeding works.
Last clutch replacement was done at a reliable TASC. Spoke to him today and was informed that he had replaced the clutch from dual mass fly wheel to that of newer arias' (2014 onwards) which is same as one in safari storme. Can this modification be a cause of early failure of clutch?

Originally Posted by honeybee

Is the 4x4 engaged? AWD?

Clutch bleeding is the cheapest you can try, including transmission fluid replacement.

Next up I would suggest you visit the TASC and have them troubleshoot the issue. It looks like a clutch issue, but having TASC work on it, you will have someone to hold accountable if the repairs are messed up.

Avoid driving the vehicle in this state as much as possible.

It's a rear wheel driven vehicle with Torque on Demand.

Is transmission fluid related to clutch?

Even i want to get it done at TASC, but unfortunately its 70 kms away, closed on Sundays, and does not stock Aria part. Even if diagnosis is made it will take another 10 days for parts to be available.
My primary aim of approaching this forum is to have some basic orientation before letting a local mechanic touch the vehicle.

[Rahul Rao]

@bravo82in
As PGA says your clutch is not fully disengaging.
Possibilities that I can think of are.


There is an air bubble in the hydraulic system.



The clutch hydraulic system (master and slave cylinder) is not functioning optimally, and may need to be changed.



A few drops of leaked fluid and wear particles from the clutch have formed a sticky mess on the shaft on which the thrust bearing / actuator slides forward and back.


First is easiest just bleeding the system.
Second can be diagnosed by a mechanic.
Third needs clutch to be opened, and also makes the clutch pedal hard to operate.


Rahul

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by bravo82in

...
Last clutch replacement was done at a reliable TASC. Spoke to him today and was informed that he had replaced the clutch from dual mass fly wheel to that of newer arias' (2014 onwards) which is same as one in safari storme. Can this modification be a cause of early failure of clutch?

...

Is transmission fluid related to clutch?

...

Was the entire assembly sourced from the newer Aria's parts bin or only the clutch?

Transmission fluid is different from clutch fluid. The brake and clutch fluids might share the same reservoir - check your owner's manual for the same.

Bleeding the clutch is simple enough that you can try at an FNG.

[bravo82in]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Was the entire assembly sourced from the newer Aria's parts bin or only the clutch?
.....

The Screen shot of the online version of bill is attached here
This probably means the entire assembly was replaced.
Total cost Rs 11700/-