[ykamesh]

Hi, Mr.Harsha:

Thanks for your detailed article on Ford Endeavor. I am seriously contemplating to buy this car by disposing of my Fortuner.

Are these stalling / unintended acceleration issues are resolved or do they still persist?

Would be Glad to hear from you.

[desertfox]

The explaination is simple but people ignore it. There is too much electronics and cheap gizmos in these vehicles now which is vendor developed and not from a platform common development program of the vehicle maker.

The marketing blitz is keep adding features and gizmos. Just to compete.

A Mercedese BMW or even Toyota co-develop things with a vendor say a music system with NIPPON or JBL or B & O in each case the vehicle design team will integrate development to delivery, installation and after sales service process into their Standard operating procedures after easing out all possible failure points.

Others simply lift off and ape features, not technology.

I find people like Mahindra, Ford, GM India, Hyundai etc. very weak in technology
implementation.

This is the reason from Taurus to Crown victoria from Explorer to Expedition, Excursion or Lincon Navigator the end result for Ford is always
Fault
Or
Repair
Daily

[Doge]

Originally Posted by desertfox

The explaination is simple but people ignore it. There is too much electronics and cheap gizmos in these vehicles now which is vendor developed and not from a platform common development program of the vehicle maker.

The marketing blitz is keep adding features and gizmos. Just to compete.

A Mercedese BMW or even Toyota co-develop things with a vendor say a music system with NIPPON or JBL or B & O in each case the vehicle design team will integrate development to delivery, installation and after sales service process into their Standard operating procedures after easing out all possible failure points.

Others simply lift off and ape features, not technology.

I find people like Mahindra, Ford, GM India, Hyundai etc. very weak in technology
implementation.

This is the reason from Taurus to Crown victoria from Explorer to Expedition, Excursion or Lincon Navigator the end result for Ford is always
Fault
Or
Repair
Daily

Any car can have problems but that is no reason to generalise and write the whole automaker off. It's no secret that as cars get more complicated, there are more places where things can go wrong but that's a price we have to pay for the technology.
Don't know where your bias against Ford comes from, in my experience cars like the previous Endeavour were rock solid tough and as reliable as anything on four wheels can be and the Crown Vic you mentioned, is widely regarded as one of the most reliable cars in America, evidenced by their usage in law enforcements and taxi fleets.

[NiInJa]

I had heard about this issue with Ford TDCI engines but never actually knew how serious it can be when I was driving my friend's Figo (old one) late night on empty streets of Gurgaon (We were returning from a party and all others in the car were drunk). I was doing about 60 kmph when I took the feet off accelerator to reduce speed as there was a cross road ahead. The car just stalled ! I lost steering power and brakes started fading as well. Fortunately there was no one on the street except our vehicle so I started pulling towards left and pulling hand brake slowly also cranking the engine but it didn't start. I stopped safely much before the cross-road. Cranked the engine again at it started off as if nothing had happened. Later in the morning when my friend was sober casually said 'Oh yes, I forgot to tell you that it stalls some times when you lift your foot off'

I've never faced this issue in any of the cars that I've driven so far. Even my dad's carburetted Maruti 800 never stalled like this.

Reading this issue again on a new car has made me a bit more skeptical about Ford's diesel engine. Either they are not doing enough to sort this issue permanently or just ignoring it as one-off case by 'updating' softwares. I for one will stay away from Ford's Diesel cars !

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Later in the morning when my friend was sober casually said 'Oh yes, I forgot to tell you that it stalls some times when you lift your foot off'

That's because of a faulty clutch switch. Same thing used to happen with my Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi. Got the clutch switch replaced and all good. Part cost is less than Rs. 200. It's very scary when car stalls on its own.

[harsha.muvva]

UPDATE AFTER 2,000 kms

Fortunately I had to travel a lot in last week. Decided to drive the endeavour just to see if the issue repeats again or not. Our endeavour has covered 1,000 kms in the last 4 days and a total of 2,500 kms since the issue was reported first. Happy to inform that the vehicle hasn't stalled and didn't notice any random acceleration issue too. Hope it doesn't repeat again. I have also received the extended warranty document as promised by them. Both 'Ford India' and AGM of the dealership have been calling me every 2-3 days to check if I am happy with the vehicle. Its very reassuring to know that even if the problem repeats again, they are ready to own it and take care of the same. To be very frank when the problem repeated again and there is no error code shown, I thought they will simply say they couldn't find any problem or not able to reciprocate it and thus dis-own it. I will be using endeavour regularly for next months, shall keep the thread updated as I keep on piling kilometres.

Originally Posted by desertfox

A Mercedese BMW or even Toyota co-develop things with a vendor say a music system with NIPPON or JBL or B & O in each case the vehicle design team will integrate development to delivery, installation and after sales service process into their Standard operating procedures after easing out all possible failure points.

I find people like Mahindra, Ford, GM India, Hyundai etc. very weak in technology
implementation.

Well, I agree with you that with more gizmos/features more the chances of failure. I know of two relatively new (less than year old) MERCEDES GLE250 which are having multiple niggles/issues ranging from rattles, engine check lights, premature wearing of brakes pads..etc. But that doesn't mean all the MERCS are useless. You can also find a whole thread dedicated to niggles/issues in TOYOTA INNOVA (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...va-crysta.html). So I don't see any logic in generalising an entire brand because of issues in few vehicles.

[harsha.muvva]

Looks like I spoke too early, the vehicle refused to start yesterday after I reached our hometown (180 kms from hyderabad & service centre). I tried starting the vehicle, but even after multiple cranks it refused to start. However this time I did not panic, as I know it will start after waiting for 10-15 mins and I was not wrong. It started and i returned to my place.

Immediately i mailed along with my previous service request number to Ford India, within 15 mins I received a call from the person who was dealing with my issue previously. This time I made it clear that I am not going to accept the vehicle unless they can pin-point the exact issue and replace the necessary parts (my guess is it will be a CMP sensor or wiring harness). I have also asked for a 'Loaner Endeavour" as I really need a 7 seater for next week. Let us see how this goes now.
Also they offered to provide me a flatbed along with a 'Ford Technician' incase I am not confident of driving it back, I have politely refused it.

I shall keep the thread updated.

[rambo1o1]

Originally Posted by harsha.muvva

Looks like I spoke too early, the vehicle refused to start yesterday after I reached our hometown (180 kms from hyderabad & service centre). I tried starting the vehicle, but even after multiple cranks it refused to start. However this time I did not panic, as I know it will start after waiting for 10-15 mins and I was not wrong. It started and i returned to my place.

Immediately i mailed along with my previous service request number to Ford India, within 15 mins I received a call from the person who was dealing with my issue previously. This time I made it clear that I am not going to accept the vehicle unless they can pin-point the exact issue and replace the necessary parts (my guess is it will be a CMP sensor or wiring harness). I have also asked for a 'Loaner Endeavour" as I really need a 7 seater for next week. Let us see how this goes now.
Also they offered to provide me a flatbed along with a 'Ford Technician' incase I am not confident of driving it back, I have politely refused it.

I shall keep the thread updated.

Any updates on your Endeavour? Has Ford started any replacement of parts or is the car still under observation?

Originally Posted by harsha.muvva

Day 2 - I got to see and drive the vehicle but I could not experience the 'Un-intended acceleration' (term borrowed from google). However the refused to start after I parked it at home, it threw up 'Wrench error' and displayed 'Check Manual'. I tried multiple times to start it, but it simply refused to start. I couldn't hear any cranking sound either. However after around 10-15 minutes, it started again and the wrench symbol disappeared. I managed to click the photo when it showed the error. Attaching the picture of same. You can notice the symbol in right bottom of display.

Originally Posted by harsha.muvva

Looks like I spoke too early, the vehicle refused to start yesterday after. I tried starting the vehicle, but even after multiple cranks it refused to start. .

Im not very knowledgeable about cars but during the last incident, did the car crank(made the usual cranking sound) and refused to start or was there no sound at all while turning the key?, like in the first incident of your first post?

Since the issue doesn't repeat regularly and occurred after 2500 km, seems to be the same loose sensor issue or its getting dirty or the wiring harness is playing up. Hopefully this time parts are replaced instead of adjusted/cleaned or fitted back.

Hope your issue is permanently solved and you can get back to enjoying the beast.

Regards

[harsha.muvva]

Originally Posted by rambo1o1

Any updates on your Endeavour? Has Ford started any replacement of parts or is the car still under observation?

I have dropped the vehicle at service centre today. Apparently a 'technical engineer' from Ford India, Chennai will be attending the vehicle tomorrow or the day after. Ford India has advised the dealer not to touch the vehicle till the time their technician is here. I think this time, it will take around 4-5 days before I receive the vehicle.

Since the issue doesn't repeat regularly and occurred after 2500 km, seems to be the same loose sensor issue or its getting dirty or the wiring harness is playing up. Hopefully this time parts are replaced instead of adjusted/cleaned or fitted back.

Even I feel the same. Changing the wiring harness/CMP sensor should sort out the issue. Similar complaints were reported by other endeavour owners which got resolved after changing the sensor. But for some reason 'Ford India' seems very reluctant to change the parts. Even my dealer has recommended them to change the wiring harness and sensor.


They are unable to provide me a 'loaner' endeavour vehicle. Instead they offered me a Rs 3,000 per day travel allowance till I get the vehicle back. I feel its a very good gesture. Their Customer care is really one of the best I have experienced till date, much better than even toyota. However, unfortunately I can't say the same about their technical team. . They should have changed the sensor/wiring harness during the first two visits. But they simply didn't even after I insisted them to and also providing links of various forums where the fix was mentioned.

[harsha.muvva]

UPDATE

'Field service engineer' from Ford India, chennai was taking care of my endeavour since last 4-5 days. He updated me on this issue almost twice daily. They even spoke to my chauffeur to understand the issue in detail. I was informed that the vehicle refused to start once when he was checking the vehicle which was a huge relief for me as they have the first exposure of the problem now. Finally the replaced the existing 'CKP' sensor with what they call as 'New Improved Level CKP Sensor. I was informed that they did a road test and couldn't find any issues post the change of sensor. I am expecting to receive the vehicle today.

I am totally impressed by the pro-activeness of both 'Ford India' and 'Dealership' in updating me about the issue daily via phone and email both. Whatever I was told over phone call has been sent to me in writing as I requested for the same. However I wish they have changed the sensor when I first reported the issue. I have insisted them to change the sensor in first and second visits which they refused to do so at that time. My vehicle would not have spent 8 days (2 public holidays) in dealership if they had replaced the sensor in first visit itself.. Hopefully the won't repeat again now.

[harsha.muvva]

Another Day, Another issue

I have finally received the vehicle on June 7th (vehicle went to service centre on 29th may) after they have changed the CKP sensor to a 'Upgraded one'. In the process of installing the sensor and checking wiring harness they managed to damaged the clips of rear bumper. So they installed a new bumper, which took 2 additional days. I was all happy with the vehicle and did around 500 kms over the weekend.

However my joy was short-lived. The car was making a 'tak-tak' sound from rear which is continuous and increased with speed. I thought there must be something loose inside and have sent the vehicle to service centre today in the morning. I got the shock of my life in the afternoon when the service centre GM informed me that Rear Drive shaft/propeller shaft is making the noise and it has to replaced. Warranty claim for the same has been initiated. Right now they couldn't even tell me when I will be able to get the car back. This time I took loaner car from them which is an Ecosport. They have thoroughly checked and serviced that ecosport before giving it me.

I am clearly annoyed with these continuous issues from last one month. Even with these issues/niggles, our endeavour has done 4,000 kms in last month, my worst nightmare is getting stranded in one of our highway trips. However the BIG positive from this whole fiasco is the way how both my 'Dealer' and 'Ford India' are taking responsibility and doing their best to keep me happy (giving me free extended warranty, taxi allowances for 10 days and now a loaner ecosport).

I have never ventured into even mild off-roading in the endeavour till now. So, I fail to understand why the propeller/drive shaft is acting weird.

[harsha.muvva]

The rear propeller shaft was replaced under warranty and the car was delivered to me after a road test of approximately 250 kms yesterday. I have requested them to provide me a long extended warranty which is not available 'officially' from Ford India at the moment. I was informed they will discuss internally on this and will get back to me in a day or two with their decision.

There is one more 3.2 AT endeavour which came to the same service centre with similar issues (stalling, no starting..etc). Sensor was changed on that too. Both of our endeavours started facing the problems exactly near 30,000/- kms. I have requested the RSM and other senior management to do a voluntary recall for this CKP sensor as its a serious and worrisome issues especially when you are on a long drive.

[ecosport rules]

Thanks for the update Harsha.
What exactly was wrong with the propeller shaft,metallurgy issues?

[harsha.muvva]

Originally Posted by ecosport rules

Thanks for the update Harsha.
What exactly was wrong with the propeller shaft,metallurgy issues?

I did not get any answer for that question. Only thing I understood is some part in propeller shaft is loose which is making the noise. I feel its some manufacturing defect and definitely a one-off case unlike the CKP sensor problem which is a well documented problem across various models.

[SHANKY11]

Hi, Harsha. I hope your Endeavour is running well now. Do share the updates, if any. Thanks.