[dhanushs]

Hi All,

I have a Manza, which is primarily used for long distances. The vehicle is spic and span, very comfy, and there is absolutely no niggling issues with the vehicle, expect for this one weird issue.

The clutch pressure plate fingers lose tension.

The clutch at first becomes hard, afterwards, lose travel. Over time, when you depress the pedal, the clutch does not fully disengage.

The first clutch change happened in 31,000kms. By 50,000kms clutch became hard. But, since I or a temp driver drive the vehicle, I didnt mind the hard clutch. At 55,000 kms there was less pedal travel, and you had to press the clutch really hard to disengage the friction plate. At 61,000 slave cylinder gave up because of the hard clutch. And, I changed the whole assy. Clutch Friction plate, pressure plate, release bearing, slave cylinder and master cylinder.

The next clutch change was done in 78,000kms (17,000 kms clutch life). Due to the same problem - Hard Clutch, with less pedal. Changed the Pressure plate, friction plate and release bearing.

The next change in 94,000 kms. Again same issue, and changed the clutch assy. All the time, there is absolutely no issue with the friction plate, flywheel or any other related part.

All replacements from the company showroom.

The vehicle is not over heating, or there is nothing wrong with the vehicle. I'm wondering what the real issue is!

P.S - No other Manza's have this problem, is what I have learnt. Also, Dezire and Linea who run the same clutch assy dont have the problem.

[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Hi All,

I have a Manza, which is primarily used for long distances. The vehicle is spic and span, very comfy, and there is absolutely no niggling issues with the vehicle, expect for this one weird issue.

The clutch pressure plate fingers lose tension.

The clutch at first becomes hard, afterwards, lose travel. Over time, when you depress the pedal, the clutch does not fully disengage.

The first clutch change happened in 31,000kms. By 50,000kms clutch became hard. But, since I or a temp driver drive the vehicle, I didnt mind the hard clutch. At 55,000 kms there was less pedal travel, and you had to press the clutch really hard to disengage the friction plate. At 61,000 slave cylinder gave up because of the hard clutch. And, I changed the whole assy. Clutch Friction plate, pressure plate, release bearing, slave cylinder and master cylinder.

The next clutch change was done in 78,000kms (17,000 kms clutch life). Due to the same problem - Hard Clutch, with less pedal. Changed the Pressure plate, friction plate and release bearing.

The next change in 94,000 kms. Again same issue, and changed the clutch assy. All the time, there is absolutely no issue with the friction plate, flywheel or any other related part.

All replacements from the company showroom.

The vehicle is not over heating, or there is nothing wrong with the vehicle. I'm wondering what the real issue is!

P.S - No other Manza's have this problem, is what I have learnt. Also, Dezire and Linea who run the same clutch assy dont have the problem.

Hi Dhanush

My Manza too had this problem of the clutch becoming hard. The following works were undertaken at 73000km:-

• Clutch Master Cylinder - replaced
• Clutch Release Bearing - replaced
• Clutch Kit - replaced

As per the head mechanic at the TASS that I regularly go to, when Tata borrowed this engine (1.3 VGT) from Fiat, they borrowed the gearbox too and the hydraulic clutch came with it as a package. The Petrol Manza has a wire operated clutch. I asked him whether a petrol Manza Clutch can be retrofitted on a Diesel one, he said it could with some hit & trial, but would take some work.

Apparently, the problem is the hydraulic clutch only. The wire operated one works just fine. They have rectified its design in the Zest & that has eliminated the hardness problems. Maybe you can try (with a knowledgeable and willing mechanic, having weighed the pros and cons) to get the Zest's clutch components replace the ones in your Manza, if it's practicable.

Cheers !

PS: Here's an earlier post of mine on the clutch issue .

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3801165

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by Ironhide

...Apparently, the problem is the hydraulic clutch only...

The problem is with the pressure plate, not the method of actuation. If the petrol manza pressure plate becomes hard, that too will have a problem.

Also, my issue is not only the clutch becoming hard, but losing the pedal travel too, in only ~16-17k kms.

... they borrowed the gearbox too and the hydraulic clutch came with it as a package.

AFAIK, the gearbox is different. Also, most of the mass market vehicles with bigger diesel engines than say the Manza's have the hydraulic clutch. Its not the "hydraulic" part thats the problem, infact thats supposed to help you with matters.

[SS-Traveller]

Who manufactures that pressure plate for OEM? Are there any other manufacturers for the same specifications?

[Jaggu]

Weird stuff this Since you have replaced all the parts that are usual culprit already. Like SS-T mentioned above, you can maybe try for a different brand or after market part for the pressure plate.

Will the overall alignment of the assembly cause such an issue? Putting load on the plate petal and prematurely weakening it?

Surely will watch the thread for updates.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Who manufactures that pressure plate for OEM? Are there any other manufacturers for the same specifications?

SST, initial suspect was the manufacturing quality, but, same batch Manza's have clutch changed from the same dealership, and no issues.

Also, at 78,000 the change was done from a Bosch Workshop with a different pressure plate, and the problem cropped up at ~90+k .

Originally Posted by Jaggu

...
Will the overall alignment of the assembly cause such an issue? Putting load on the plate petal and prematurely weakening it?..

Yeah, this is something I'm looking into.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

SST, initial suspect was the manufacturing quality, but, same batch Manza's have clutch changed from the same dealership, and no issues.

Also, at 78,000 the change was done from a Bosch Workshop with a different pressure plate, and the problem cropped up at ~90+k .

So, going by your list, everything in the clutch assembly has been changed multiple times, but not the flywheel. Just maybe, the flywheel is faulty, in terms of thickness, or surface finish, or material quality... Next time, why not change the flywheel as well (along with the rest of the clutch assembly - pressure plate, friction plate and release bearing).

I suspect extreme local heat generation is frying the clutch components in a short time (even though you've not reported that the clutch starts to slip after, say, 10k km of use). I'm confused about the 'why' part.

Edit: One more suggestion - can you measure the dimensions of a new flywheel and compare with the one on your car?

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

So, going by your list, everything in the clutch assembly has been changed multiple times, but not the flywheel. Just maybe, the flywheel is faulty, in terms of thickness, or surface finish, or material quality... Next time, why not change the flywheel as well (along with the rest of the clutch assembly - pressure plate, friction plate and release bearing).

Hmm.. Actually, right. Since the pedal travel is another issue, this is something I need to check. The vehicle is sold, but to a friend. I will be able to do this.

I suspect extreme local heat generation is frying the clutch components in a short time (even though you've not reported that the clutch starts to slip after, say, 10k km of use). I'm confused about the 'why' part.

Yeah, heat was the prime suspect. Hence I mentioned the vehicle wasnt overheating. Also, the clutch wasnt slipping, BUT - the Manza has a pathetic, very tall first gear ratio and a bad turbo lag, so, there has been a couple of instances, where you stop on an incline, you really need to work on slipping the clutch to get the vehicle climbing. But, if thats the reason, then I'm sure others too might have faced this.

I'm confused about the 'why' part.

Even I want to know the "why" part, hence this thread.

[rajiv.kulkarni]

I too own a Manza club class which has clocked around 75K, I got my clutch kit (both Master and Slave Cylinders, Clutch Plate) changed around 55K. I recently found that the clutch pedal was not travelling all the way back, however I did not have any jerks while driving. After troubleshooting with a Bosch workshop nearby, I found that the clutch assembly was actually fine, it was the pedal which was faulty. There was an issue with a certain bush which can't be replaced, so the pedal assembly needs to be replaced. In my case, the issue was fixed by swapping out bushes with other model cars and some welding work. May be others could be facing this weird issue as well.

Thanks,
Rajiv