[laluks]

The Issue:

Bearing noise from the left side of the Car.

When:
1. While stationary after starting and in Neutral
2. While in movement, in all gears. More predominant at gears 1, 2,3. Though the noise is there at gears 4, 5 the speed of the car and wind noise makes it difficult to notice.
3. Goes away when clutch is fully pressed

How to identify:
After starting, in neutral listen to the bearing noise in a silent zone with your car. Press the clutch completely in, the bearing noise stops, since we disengage the gears. Release the clutch slowly back, the bearing noise comes back.

If you get a noise while pressing the clutch in, it is a noise from your release bearing.

Diagnosis:
INPUT SHAFT BEARING NOISE

How does it sound? How can I recognize?
Here's an audio of the issue when it begins, and in initial stages

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMk0jCuMDXY

Here's a video of the same left unattended for quite a long time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_8fObGKgQ

Here's a video which shows what exactly is the issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtYg6NgvZq4

What Should I do if I get this issue?
You need to change the Input Shaft Bearing. The OEM bearing is from NTN Japan. It is a Deep Groove Bearing. While you do that, its a good thing to replace the Oil Seal as well.

OEM Part Number
1. 91002 RPF 003 - INPUT SHAFT BEARING, Costs Rs512
2. 91216 PHR 003 - OIL SEAL, Costs Rs 235

Input Shaft Bearing







Oil Seal








It would be advisable to do this at HASS, since the whole Gearbox have to be downed and you need the genuine components, trained mechanics, access to good quality tools and a lift. You would definitely be looking at 2 to 3 days of down time for your car.

If you can source this components in any other ways, you can work with your trusted FNG. Key here is the component, and it's quality. Since this is a labor intensive job with huge downtime, its better to do it with original components. Well, we don't want to keep opening Gearboxes all the time, do we?


What did I do? What was wrong with my Civvy?
I wanted to clearly understand the issue, so I asked my trusted and Skilled Mechanics at my favorite FNG to down the gearbox and show me the Input Shaft Bearing.

Here it is as expected: See the broken bearing!


Once we confirmed it was indeed the Input Shaft bearing, we tried with our local bearing suppliers. They could find equivalents and quotes came from Rs 500 to Rs 5000, but definitely they needed time to source in the range of 3days to 2 weeks.

I then decided to discuss with HASS. The parts were not available locally. They had to order and get the same and no possibility for a counter sale. Have to get the car to HASS. But on discussing the matter and me being their customer since 10 years, and the parts not very expensive, the vehicle already in a garage, it was agreed that I can take it. We then ordered the same via an air delivery mode, which is an expedited form of an order. It was promised to be available in 3 days, and yes indeed it came in three days. With the parts sourced the work was completely done in my supervision at my FNG.

The broken and the new bearing for comparison


It took almost half a day to down the Gearbox, another half to remove the bearing and assemble back, and another half a day to put the gear box back in place. Labour intensive work, indeed.


More about the work and pictures in subsequent posts.

[laluks]

Day 01
18th May 2017

Decided to check Civvy for the bearing noise, and reached my FNG. They already knew I wanted the gear box to be downed and opened and the input shaft bearing checked.

They are on the job as soon as I arrive.


For Civic if we have to down the gearbox, we need to remove the frame .

After a long hard work, the frame is down and the Gear box is also separated for review.




The Frame!


The bolts that kept all of that in place


Support for the Engine


Engine bay without the frame and Gearbox


Flywheel at 148000Kms, probably with the next clutch change I will replace the same


This clutch did only 20K Kms and good to go for more, the previous one did 125K!


Left Axle

[laluks]

Day 01
18th May 2017


That's our Gearbox


That's the Input Shaft


Gearbox placed in the operation table


Sensor








Oil Seal looks Ok


That's where the axle gets to the differential


Gear shifting assembly removed

[laluks]

Day 01
18th May 2017

We started opening the Gearbox slowly.

Tricky parts, there are 4 bolts with springs and balls








Then you have the lock


Once that is unlocked and all the bolts unscrewed the gear box opens without a fuss.

The Gears, shifting rods


Reverse gear


The differential

[laluks]

Day 01
18th May 2017

There we see the input shaft bearing, looks bad


We removed it from the case


He did 148K before he gave up


The washers above the bearing


Two of them, position is important


Checked the oil seal below the bearing


It looked ok, but since we opened the case decided to change that as well


There is a magnet inside the gear box


See how it attracts the broken metallic pieces and Gear dust. All this collected over 148k and 10 years.


The broken pieces from the old bearing



By this time, it was almost a full day of work. We were very clear with our diagnosis and identifying the components was done. Now it was time to source the components.

As mentioned before I gave the order to HASS on 19.05.2017. The promise was to deliver in three working days and I got the components in hand on 23.05.2017

See the date on the package, seems like it was packed after my order!!



Made arrangements to start the work on 24.05.2017 at my FNG. Day02 also seems to be like a full day of labour

[laluks]

Day 02
24th May 2017

The outgoing broken bearing


The oil seal was good


Still decided to replace with new one


New Oil seal, New Bearing in place




Time to place the washers back


The Magnet fully cleaned for its next schedule of duty


In fact the magnet did a wonderful job of not letting the broken pieces from the earlier bearing getting between the gear wheels causing unnecessary wear and tear.

[laluks]

Day 02
24th May 2017

The Gear box assembly after the bearing was changed




Sealing using gasket maker








Time for closing the gear box casing




And finally the reassembly


We then did liberal rounds of test drive and it all looked and felt OK. I need to take it for a bit of a long drive, which I will do this weekend


Civvy gets a good wash too.



My FNG Charged me Rs3500 for the labor.





By the Way Civvy completed her 10th birthday on 21.05.2017. All alone on a lift in my FNG. The birthday celebrations are on for this weekend

[Rehaan]

Laluks, this is the 'travelogue' of bearing replacements!

I've moved your posts from the Civic maintenance thread to this standalone thread.

[sumeethaldankar]

What is the reason for the bearing to break? Since the transmission case rarely needs such maintenance what could have prevented this issue?

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

What is the reason for the bearing to break? Since the transmission case rarely needs such maintenance what could have prevented this issue?

These are the very questions that I've had in my mind since Laluks started the thread, a thread that I find most informative and interesting. TFS Laluks.

Most modern GBs are sealed with a lifetime lube with the only preventive maintenance being adjusting the shifter play and topping off the oil in case of a leak.

A broken bearing is serious and luckily the Honda GB has a magnet that traps metallic particles which prevent further damage. Hope my vehicles have this sensible feature.

But I think the cause of bearing failure is a simple luck of the draw.

[laluks]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Laluks, this is the 'travelogue' of bearing replacements!

I've moved your posts from the Civic maintenance thread to this standalone thread.

Thanks Rehaan

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

What is the reason for the bearing to break? Since the transmission case rarely needs such maintenance what could have prevented this issue?

Originally Posted by R2D2

These are the very questions that I've had in my mind since Laluks started the thread
.........
But I think the cause of bearing failure is a simple luck of the draw.

No, This is not about luck. If you really do the research online, it seems Honda has acknowledged in their 6th Gen Civics this was a defective design.

The seventh gen civics reported many such cases and the eight gen reports even more.

All these are from heavily run vehicles, over 150K Kms most of the times. I saw one case only which had less kms on the odo when I went paranoid and started collecting reports on this issue.

Further Mazda, reported many such instances. So I guess if you search you will get many reports for all OEMs.


But thankfully the parts are available and was easy to complete the assembly, barring the intensive labour and down time

[Latheesh]

I see old bearing is of NTN brand, but did not see any brand name on new bearing. Just my observation, I think there is nothing to worry since it is a Honda genuine part.

[laluks]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

I see old bearing is of NTN brand, but did not see any brand name on new bearing. Just my observation, I think there is nothing to worry since it is a Honda genuine part.

Its NTN, same to same

[aghate]

A very informative thread indeed! Thanks for sharing.
I will keep a watch for this noise in my 3rd Gen City as well. Although I did not find any news about it in my random search after reading the details here. Good to have this information and will certainly help prospective owners when buying a pre-owned Civic.

[bullrun87]

Thanks for the nice write up and report. I had this bearing and 5th gear replaced in my alto in 2015. Alto components are readily available. I showed up at MASS at 9am and the car was handed over to me at 6pm. 5th gear cog and the input shaft bearing were replaced. I was charged about 5000 including the cost of the bearing, the 5th gear and labour. But they reused the old gear oil in the car. Did you have your gear oil replaced?