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Old 27th October 2017, 14:40   #91
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Yes, remap can be done. It's open ECU / bench flash. If I had Creta and still under warranty.. I would go with RD dual channel box . My friend has Creta with RD dual channel box and it's really good.


Thanks Sir,
Do you know anyone reliable in Mumbai who can do the same.
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Old 27th October 2017, 14:43   #92
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Thanks Sir,
Do you know anyone reliable in Mumbai who can do the same.
You can try with Pete's dealer in Mumbai. The ECU would be shipped to Kochi. Another option is Kiirus, but I am not sure how good their maps are.

You can also check with TOT, Code 6, Wolf and GT Tunerz. They travel to different places
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Old 14th November 2017, 11:02   #93
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What is Decalibrated MOD File?
This is done by many tuners. Advantage is very easy way of making power. This is something not very ethical in tuning industry and those type of tuners have no respect at all in ECU tuning forums.

The tuner can fool the ECU by remap just like how a tuning box does. Injector duration opening maps are the favourite for many tuners. It is very easy to decalibrate and fool the ECU.

Injector has to be open for X amount of time to inject Y amount of fuel : Stock map

Injector would be open for X + a amount of time to inject Y amount of fuel : Decalibrated. In reality more amount of fuel would be injected as the injectors are open for longer duration but the ECU still thinks that same amount of fuel is injected like stock (FOOLED). When a tuner changes only this map and makes power.. FE in MID might show very good figures
I got my Jetta remapped by Pete's and I am seeing very similar symptoms. Whereas before remapping, the difference in FE shown in MID and that calculated using Tank full to Tank full was never above 2 km/l, now this difference has gone up to 4 km/l and is usually about 3 km/l. Also my daily office drive and back from Chembur to Fort in Mumbai gave me an average FE of 16 km/l as per MID (in moderate traffic). Now I see this figure go up to 19 km/l. The real FE doesn't seem to have changed much though. Its just that the MID has started reporting high FE figures now, which leads me to believe that Pete's is maybe using a decalibrated MOD file as mentioned by Dr. Naren

There is no doubt that the car has become much more fun to drive after remapping but is it possible that Petes has started tuning the 2.0 TDI using a decalibrated MOD file developed by them (free) rather than using Custom Code from UK (for which they have to pay)? They have been running a lot of offers lately bringing down the remap price from a usual 30k to 16k and maybe because they don't have to pay Custom Code, they are able to discount remaps significantly. Just a conspiracy theory at this stage, I guess but it needs a little more probing. I am going to contact Pete's for clarification and will update if I find anything.

Last edited by Immix : 14th November 2017 at 11:07.
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Old 14th November 2017, 11:09   #94
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Immix View Post
I got my Jetta remapped by Pete's and I am seeing very similar symptoms. Whereas before remapping, the difference in FE shown in MID and that calculated using Tank full to Tank full was never above 2 km/l, now this difference has gone up to 4 km/l and is usually about 3 km/l. Also my daily office drive and back from Chembur to Fort in Mumbai gave me an average FE of 16 km/l as per MID (in moderate traffic). Now I see this figure go up to 19 km/l
Possibly you're gentle on throttle? Because, Naren has specified in most of his cases where the economy is totally dependent on throttle input and is inversely proportional, i.e. if WOT, economy goes south and gentle on throttle, economy climbs north! Could be one of those cases? Can you clarify on your driving style?

Quote:
There is no doubt that the car has become much more fun to drive after remapping but is it possible that Petes has started tuning the 2.0 TDI using a decalibrated MOD file developed by them (free) rather than using Custom Code from UK (for which they have to pay)? They have been running a lot of offers lately bringing down the remap price from a usual 30k to 16k and maybe because they don't have to pay Custom Code, they are able to discount remaps significantly. Just a conspiracy theory at this stage, I guess but it needs a little more probing. I am going to contact Pete's for clarification and will update if I find anything.
Petes is a renowned tuning team. Please keep the group updated if you find something fishy
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Old 14th November 2017, 11:16   #95
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by gururajrv View Post
Possibly you're gentle on throttle? Because, Naren has specified in most of his cases where the economy is totally dependent on throttle input and is inversely proportional, i.e. if WOT, economy goes south and gentle on throttle, economy climbs north! Could be one of those cases? Can you clarify on your driving style?
Sorry I updated my post just now to add that, "the real FE doesn't seem to have changed much. Its just that the MID has started reporting high FE figures now, which leads me to believe that Pete's is maybe using a decalibrated MOD file as mentioned by Dr. Naren"

You were just too fast to respond to my original post

I haven't really changed my driving style post remap. If anything, I have actually started driving more aggressively at times
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Old 14th November 2017, 11:16   #96
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Immix View Post
I got my Jetta remapped by Pete's and I am seeing very similar symptoms. Whereas before remapping, the difference in FE shown in MID and that calculated using Tank full to Tank full was never above 2 km/l, now this difference has gone up to 4 km/l and is usually about 3 km/l.
It's very likely that injector opening duration is changed. ECU is fooled here. MID will show much better figures than tank full method.

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Pete's is maybe using a decalibrated MOD file as mentioned by Dr. Naren
I would call it as fully decalibrated mod file if they have changed only injector opening duration and not touched any other maps. I am not saying that this is bad, it's just easy way of making power by fooling the ECU. I have seen most of the tuners change injector opening duration, but they do change few other maps too. Anyways, it's not a big deal. If you are happy with the performance and there are no other issues.. Its OK!

Quote:
They have been running a lot of offers lately bringing down the remap price from a usual 30k to 16k and maybe because they don't have to pay Custom Code, they are able to discount remaps significantly. Just a conspiracy theory at this stage, I guess but it needs a little more probing. I am going to contact Pete's for clarification and will update if I find anything.
Pete's can make their own tunes only if they have master tools and any licensed tuning software. I believe Pete's VAG files are from custom code itself. Custom Code is a good brand. There is nothing wrong in changing injector opening duration, I am sure they would have changed other maps too. There are few custom remap guys in India who make power by changing only this "injector duration map" and charge a bomb for that

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 14th November 2017 at 11:23.
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Old 14th November 2017, 14:56   #97
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I would call it as fully decalibrated mod file if they have changed only injector opening duration and not touched any other maps

Just out of curiosity:

On your initial post you show the file that has the table showing injector opening and fuel injected quantities. I understand that the table provides for each injector opening a certain fuel injected quantity. And if you alter the injector opening times without adjusting the amount of fuel injected as a bear minimum the fuel used/efficiciency calculations as shown on the MID will be off.

I was just wondering: in essence the injector opening time has a direct correlation to how much fuel gets injected. Why are fixed values used? (At least that is how I understand the table works?)

Wouldn't it make more sense to have them calculated dynamiccaly based on injector opening? (of course it's not a linear correlation, but for a given pressure and a given injector with a specific opening time you will get a very specific volume of fuel being injected.)

One reason I can think of for using fixed values is, it might be easier to use the same ECU with different injectors perhaps?

Thanks

Jeroen
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Old 14th November 2017, 15:07   #98
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Why are fixed values used? (At least that is how I understand the table works?)
The values are precisely calculated by the manufacturer. It's clearly written in the injector opening duration map that for how long the injector should remain open at particular rail pressure to inject the defined amount of fuel. This is like a reference map for the ECU. There are many other maps which define NM TO IQ conversion, AFR, Torque limiters etc. All these maps work in harmony with each other. Injector duration map is just 1 map out of hundreds in ECU
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Old 15th November 2017, 01:25   #99
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
This is the stock injector opening duration map of S-Cross 1.6
Attachment 1681744

X axis : Rail pressure in bars
Y axis : Injected quantity of fuel in mm3
Table values : Injector opening duration in micro seconds
From the name of the Map, I can make out it is a Bosch MEDC 17 System

Do the tuners you know also work on Continental, Delphi Systems?

Info: The software can do only that much, what the hardware supports.

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 15th November 2017 at 01:26.
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Old 15th November 2017, 08:33   #100
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From the name of the Map, I can make out it is a Bosch MEDC 17 System
Bosch EDC17C49

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Do the tuners you know also work on Continental, Delphi Systems?
Yes, they do. For example, PCR 2.1 in 1.5 / 1.6 TDI and Delphi DCM 3.7 in Hyundai 1.4 CRDI.
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Old 17th November 2017, 13:19   #101
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Risks Involved Remapping A Car Under Warranty

Not sure if this is covered in this thread. I am contemplating on remapping both my cars - 2011 VW Polo 1.6 Petrol (Naturally Aspirated) and 2015 VW Jetta 2.0 TDI DSG where in the Jetta is under warranty till 2019.

Not to bothered about the Polo as it is a non-turbo and out of warranty. Power bump is a minuscule 5-8 bhp more over the current 105 bhp and torque around 20 Nm more over the current 153 Nm.

I am however a bit concerned about the Jetta since it still under warranty. I have not come across any complaints on technical issues from those who have remapped their cars; whether under warranty or not, but I would like to know the risks involved in an event something does go wrong as we all know that even if the issue is not related to the remap, VW will point it to that itself to avoid a warranty claim.

Many have mentioned that the remap cannot be discovered by the manufacturer but I feel this is highly unlikely as they know their cars better than us. They may turn a blind eye when there are no issues with the car but will probe in detail in the event of something going wrong.

Any thoughts on the above?
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Old 17th November 2017, 13:31   #102
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Many have mentioned that the remap cannot be discovered by the manufacturer but I feel this is highly unlikely as they know their cars better than us. They may turn a blind eye when there are no issues with the car but will probe in detail in the event of something going wrong.

Any thoughts on the above?
Remap can be detected for sure. It's just that under routine diagnostic scan it won't be detected easily as there would be no error codes. It's very easy to detect a remap if the service guys are looking for it. All they need to do is log the car under WOT. There will be changes in injected quantity, turbo boost, torque etc.
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Old 17th November 2017, 15:42   #103
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Remap can be detected for sure.
Yes I guessed as much.

Any risks involved in remapping a car? Is it recommended to do it if the car is still under warranty?

I was contemplating on two options for the Jetta:

1. Remap the car and lose warranty.
2. Get a roll back to the original software as it was before VWs software update. I assume this too may void warranty as it is done from a non-authorized service centre. But may not be as serious as point 1?
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Old 17th November 2017, 15:50   #104
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Any risks involved in remapping a car? Is it recommended to do it if the car is still under warranty?
VAG cars are tuned the most. Most of the tuners have good tuned files for VAG. Remap is not something to be recommended during warranty period.

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1. Remap the car and lose warranty.
You won't lose warranty just like that. Only if it's detected is the main point. If there are any major warranty claims, better revert to stock map and go ahead

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2. Get a roll back to the original software as it was before VWs software update. I assume this too may void warranty as it is done from a non-authorized service centre. But may not be as serious as point 1?
VW won't roll back officially. After market tuners can do it only if they have FRF file. It may or may not work, depends on the availability of file in their server (say CMD server if the tuner is using that tool).
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Old 17th November 2017, 17:29   #105
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VW won't roll back officially. After market tuners can do it only if they have FRF file. It may or may not work, depends on the availability of file in their server (say CMD server if the tuner is using that tool).
Yes VW will not roll back the software. I was talking about rolling back the software through a tuner. In this case too VW can void warranty?
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