[parrys]

Originally Posted by maddy42

Thanks for starting the thread. When Thar was launched we did plan on selling our 540 and getting it. The local mechanic did mention the body panels not being upto even his standard of thickness and asked us to stay away.

After owning three Mahindras in our family, not having parts is a usual deal there. We did plan on buying the Mahindra LCV in the 90s and all owners just asked to stay away due to spare parts never being around. I guess by tweeting to Mr AM you may resolve your issue, but the culture of the company may not change. Pretty sad when everyone wants an indian company to prosper.

In 2017 we do not get basic safety features even as an option says a lot!

Maddy

Tweeting to AM part has been done, quite a few times. Barely moves a brick. The problem is that the brand has no expertise in resolving this issue, as well as building a car which won't have such an issue. Nothing much you can do if this is the case. Just wait till you get your car back, with just a jugaad solution.

Originally Posted by KMT

Well the new Scorpio S11 4X4 is priced @ at Rs20.10 L OTR in Bangalore. How can one sleep at night after paying 20+ big ones for a Scorpio?

I guess there are buyers at this price for Mahindra products!!

BTW I have a Thar and a Scorp Getaway, both are definitely not 'worth' their MRP but you hardly have any alternatives.

Exactly, no alternatives. Nobody can deny that the Thar has its charm. The primary reason why I got it. I don't go off-roading too much. But I do indulge in leaving the tarmac during long drives and parking the Thar at spots I would usually have to walk to. But then, yes, not worth it.

Originally Posted by GTO

Sorry to hear about your experience, Parry. But I'm not surprised.

The Thar is built in the 'old Mahindra style' at Nashik (not the 'new Mahindra' at Chakan). The issues with fit, finish, rust etc. were also seen in my Jeep in 1997, and it's disappointing that Mahindra is selling a 10-lakh Jeep today with such poor quality standards. In fact, we had highlighted a lot of these issues in our official review back in 2011.


The 30-year old Gypsy offers a more precise build. But the fact is, the Thar is a 'jugaad' product and its ownership entails the usual niggles, problems, squeaks, rattles, rust and more. It's like any other old school Mahindra Jeep in that sense. Thar ownership isn't for everyone. Equally, I might add that I still love the Thar and there's nothing quite like it.


You can add 10 airbags to the Thar, but it still won't be a 'safe' vehicle. The Thar is made out of a mishmash of parts from the Mahindra parts bin.

The love affair with the Thar started with accepting its flaws. Nobody can test drive a car like this and buy it without understanding that things are going to be difficult. The problem is that the brand is ignorant about the fact that there is a severe flaw in the processes they follow - at plant level (with the paint & parts) and at the customer service level to get such issues resolved promptly.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

This does not bode well for a company which has global ambition. Why create a "jugged" product and sell it in the market when you know it is going to a nightmare to own and maintain both for the manufacturer and more importantly the customer. I love the Thar thinking what a product this can be but I would not put my money on it.

Look at Jeep Wrangler. That is how you do traditional, modern and life-style altogether.

Mentioning the Wrangler here just makes me feel poor, and the choices one has to make with small pockets

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I think both Thar and RE bullet use the same sheet metal and paint shop. Hence the rust bucket look. May be they should supply a 5 liter can of wd40 for free with each car.
Jokes apart, as a marketing guru said, he could sell any car as long as it looked gorgeous. How right of him!!

I'm better off at the moment not talking about Royal Enfield and comparing the quality levels with Mahindra. I've already sold my Continental GT in a year. Hope you can imagine if the Thar has stayed, it's better than the GT.

But yeah, looks good. Sale completed.

[sandx]

Originally Posted by parrys

At times I do regret not waiting a little longer and going for the V-Cross. But then, Isuzu. Where are they? I've not seen a single dealership around Mumbai (I've not looked up on the map either). No doub't the Isuzu would be far more reliable & is visibly more superior in quality at least to the Mahindra Thar.

I had always looked with suspicion at the Thars being driven on the roads as i was reminded of the old Mahindras. But it still had me attracted and i had a plan to buy one at some point in future, but not any longer. The problems you have described are unbecoming of a vehicle that cost a million in the Indian market. I guess you should put a twitter tag to Anand Mahindra as well.

I hope the new Suzuki Jimny comes up in the market soon enough and provides an alternative to the wannabe lifestyle rust buckets from the word go. Only a stiff competition will help the cause.

[PrideRed]

Sad to see people still buy Thar . To me Thar looks great but would I like to own one? Never, even if offered for free. I never enjoyed driving Jeeps(Mahindra one's), they are crude, uncomfortable and have a mind of their own. I had opportunity to drive a Thar DI for quite sometime and man even humble Omini was ages ahead of this. Heard a lot of praises for Thar CRDe and my cousin owns one. Compared to DI the CRDe is better but far from modern. Unless you do serious off-roading often, I don't see a point in buying a Thar.

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by GTO

The 30-year old Gypsy offers a more precise build. But the fact is, the Thar is a 'jugaad' product and its ownership entails the usual niggles, problems, squeaks, rattles, rust and more. It's like any other old school Mahindra Jeep in that sense. Thar ownership isn't for everyone. Equally, I might add that I still love the Thar and there's nothing quite like it.

Could not have put it in a better way, plus 1000 to this. Problem is Mahindra also knows it and hence exploiting the customers

[SandyX]

Let's see how this reasoning goes.

THAR rusts even before it's made! Now that it's made clear,

* Thar is a 'Lifestyle' vehicle. Read: ONLY those who understand & follow that lifestyle should go for it. Read: It's for the trail riding greasemonkey.

* It is also a dedicated off-roader in stock form. It could be a mudplugger/rock crawler in mutated forms. Read: Your Omni or LWB V-cross won't be half as capable as Thar.

* It is an old school vehicle at its fundamentals. Read: It works as intended at its core.

* It is built on half century old blueprints & built at antiquated facilities. There are no plans at any level to 'improve' it to modern standards. Reason: Impossible.

* One MUST NOT expect modern safety features in it because the half century old design just can't take it & actually make it work. Why would people even complain? Yea yea i know the 10lacs part, but it was never meant for EVERYONE with 10lacs.

* The base vehicle vibrated/rusted 50 years ago. A clone of the same thing would vibrate/rust as many years later.

* Old school 'jeeps' were almost discontinued by Mahindra at one point but a well respected person who still lives on in our hearts brought it back in some usable form.

* He asked for something, what came out the production lines was not his choice. Read: This or nothing.

* 10lacs is too much. So i leave it to the aspirant to buy that similarly spec'd old-school(read jeep) looking competitor vehicle(s) at a much lower rate. B/w, Goodluck finding that!

* Be realistic, it's a take it or leave it product. Take it & work on it, leave it & lose it all. It was always that way. Wonder why people think things've changed.

Easy way out, go get that Gypsy while it's still there, if one could make peace with that profile. Knowing Mahindra & their hate towards R&D, exceptions aside, they'd simply discontinue what's left of this 'jeep' once the safety cries get louder, demands for price cut or regulations get in the way.

@OP
The rust as seen from your video seems mostly fixable including the windscreen frame rot. We had an SS80 once so i know what rust could do & what we did to it. Even BlackPearl had the same frame issue which he got fixed, even if for another couple of years. I suggest you stick with a good metalwork place than mahindra body shop for such important jobs. This is all part of 'jeep' ownership, sadly(for some) or usual(for the rest).

[motorguy]

I had an opportunity to drive a Thar in Kottayam that my cousin's son bought brand new in September 2017. The drive seemed reasonably comfortable and smooth on a smooth road except for the knocks you would get when going over a rough patch.

That Thar had also specks of rust here and there and I was shocked to see rusting in a brand new Thar. In addition, the defrosting vent was not working and despite turning the air flow knob, the air would remain coming from the center vents.

The last thing was that one of the wipers did not even have the cover for the bolt. Seems like the Mahindras PDI process itself is faulty and unless a customer is watchful he will end up with bad surprises when taking delivery.

After pointing out these to the owner (who incidentally owns a major truck dealership), he was disappointed but because he had access to his own body shop (used for truck repairs), he wasn't too worried because he could do all the bodywork he wanted for practically free. Still - a brand new Thar hardly 2 or 3 days old, with rust?. Unfortunately he did not decode the VIN either so he didn't know when the unit was manufactured.

The sales process also was bad with no test drive vehicle. Also they were pushing one particular color and saying the Metallic Silver colour was not available and it would take months. In fact the whole sales process was trying to convince a customer NOT to buy the Thar.

I almost took the plunge in buying one but after that experience and this thread, I would not take the risk.

@Parrys - Buddy - I really sympathize with you and hope you can sort out these issues and enjoy the vehicle for what it is. It is a fun vehicle but these kind of issues leave a bad taste in the mouth for any customer.

[johny_desparado]

After all the rusting issues and inconsistent service from Karnataka agencies, Mangalore, I finally sold my Mahindra thar. This was the only brand new vehicle I got from the showroom floor and my buying decision was from the heart and not the head.I had planned to keep it with me and pass it on to my kid. The engine and gearbox are the only things I liked about this vehicle. The chassis and the body had severe rusting issues and this is coming from an owner who takes care of his vehicle like he takes care of his own kids. The soft top leaks water and deteriorated within 3 years. I must say that my vehicle was never ever used in any off-road events or any kind of competition. It was a jeep used on a farm. Never will I buy a Mahindra again .I wish to plead with any potential customers to not to buy any vehicle that is poorly built ever and has zero safety features. Brands like Mahindra and royal enfeild are known to dish out garbage every now and then and take their customers for a grand ride. Boycott them. Tata has learned their lesson the hard way and their quality has improved significantly. Never again.

[autohead666]

So the bottom line is :

1. We cannot buy Mahindra vehicles although they are appealing and powerful,due to parts , quality and after sales service issues .
2. Germans are fun to drive but pathetic when it comes to ASS , plus parts availability is a big headache .
3. Not everyone can afford vehicles like Innova Crysta , Toyota Fortuner , or Endeavour , Duster is over priced , so is Captur , plus Renault is infamous for fooling customers .
4. FIAT manufactures quality vehicles but their ASS always had a question mark , plus FIAT cars do not have resale value .
5. End of the day we are left with Maruti , Hyundai and Honda , people will still buy them just for their service .

[parrys]

Check this out guys, this is the front panel which was painted 2 days back. The car is still at the body shop.

Talk about quality & taking customer feedback seriously.

But I guess, this is the best Mahindra can do, really.

[Dry Ice]

Really unfortunate to read about your experience parrys. At times, I do get tempted to get one while it is still on sale. Fact is, it has no real alternative. So, M&M is milking it for all it's worth (and probably more!). That is how you explain the price - 10-odd lakhs. Whenever, I get tempted, one look at the on-road price is enough to bring me down to reality. I may still blow some money on a pre-owned one someday, but, no way can I convince myself to pay a million bucks for a brand new piece.

I am sure, you aren't the first one to raise this concern. They must be aware of this problem and by now, would probably have a s-o-p document ready at the service centres. It probably is heart breaking, but clearly, they don't care.

I know what I am about to recommend might not be acceptable, but, give an independent garage a chance to rectify these problems. A capable one may surpass the service centre in terms of quality of work and would cost lesser (both in terms of your time and money). Now, finding such a setup is another quest in itself, maybe, T-BHP directory can help?

[parrys]

Originally Posted by sandx

I guess you should put a twitter tag to Anand Mahindra as well.

I hope the new Suzuki Jimny comes up in the market soon enough and provides an alternative to the wannabe lifestyle rust buckets from the word go. Only a stiff competition will help the cause.

Yeah, hopefully there is some other option one can buy. Whenever someone asks me if they should buy the Thar, I say no. They ask me why did I get one? I say I'm a fool.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

To me Thar looks great but would I like to own one? Never, even if offered for free.

Stick to this decision.

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Could not have put it in a better way, plus 1000 to this. Problem is Mahindra also knows it and hence exploiting the customers

Exploiting and not bothering at all, even when issues are being escalated.

Originally Posted by SandyX

Let's see how this reasoning goes.

THAR rusts even before it's made! Now that it's made clear,

* Thar is a 'Lifestyle' vehicle. Read: ONLY those who understand & follow that lifestyle should go for it. Read: It's for the trail riding greasemonkey.

* It is also a dedicated off-roader in stock form. It could be a mudplugger/rock crawler in mutated forms. Read: Your Omni or LWB V-cross won't be half as capable as Thar.

* It is an old school vehicle at its fundamentals. Read: It works as intended at its core.

* It is built on half century old blueprints & built at antiquated facilities. There are no plans at any level to 'improve' it to modern standards. Reason: Impossible.

* One MUST NOT expect modern safety features in it because the half century old design just can't take it & actually make it work. Why would people even complain? Yea yea i know the 10lacs part, but it was never meant for EVERYONE with 10lacs.

* The base vehicle vibrated/rusted 50 years ago. A clone of the same thing would vibrate/rust as many years later.

* Old school 'jeeps' were almost discontinued by Mahindra at one point but a well respected person who still lives on in our hearts brought it back in some usable form.

* He asked for something, what came out the production lines was not his choice. Read: This or nothing.

* 10lacs is too much. So i leave it to the aspirant to buy that similarly spec'd old-school(read jeep) looking competitor vehicle(s) at a much lower rate. B/w, Goodluck finding that!

* Be realistic, it's a take it or leave it product. Take it & work on it, leave it & lose it all. It was always that way. Wonder why people think things've changed.

Easy way out, go get that Gypsy while it's still there, if one could make peace with that profile. Knowing Mahindra & their hate towards R&D, exceptions aside, they'd simply discontinue what's left of this 'jeep' once the safety cries get louder, demands for price cut or regulations get in the way.

@OP
The rust as seen from your video seems mostly fixable including the windscreen frame rot. We had an SS80 once so i know what rust could do & what we did to it. Even BlackPearl had the same frame issue which he got fixed, even if for another couple of years. I suggest you stick with a good metalwork place than mahindra body shop for such important jobs. This is all part of 'jeep' ownership, sadly(for some) or usual(for the rest).

Let's see how much of the problem they fix. I have no expectations in terms of features when I say that the Thar is not worth a million rupees. My problem is, if I pay 10 lakhs, it should at least not start rusting in less than 2 years. Take it or leave it? A tough decision when you really fall in love with something right?

I will probably take my Thar to the same guy where GTO takes his Jeep in the future, if I keep it.

Originally Posted by motorguy

@Parrys - Buddy - I really sympathize with you and hope you can sort out these issues and enjoy the vehicle for what it is. It is a fun vehicle but these kind of issues leave a bad taste in the mouth for any customer.

It is enjoyable for what it is. But I guess the ranting won't stop throughout the ownership experience because the brand is not going to help much.

Originally Posted by johny_desparado

After all the rusting issues and inconsistent service from Karnataka agencies, Mangalore, I finally sold my Mahindra thar.

Don't give me ideas. This already came to my mind last night, and I even spent some time researching on something else, and sensible.

Originally Posted by autohead666

So the bottom line is :

1. We cannot buy Mahindra vehicles although they are appealing and
powerful,due to parts , quality and after sales service issues .
2. Germans are fun to drive but pathetic when it comes to ASS , plus parts
availability is a big headache .
3. Not everyone can afford vehicles like Innova Crysta , Toyota Fortuner , or
Endeavour , Duster is over priced , so is Captur , plus Renault is infamous
for fooling customers .
4. FIAT manufactures quality vehicles but their ASS always had a question
mark , plus FIAT cars do not have resale value .
5. End of the day we are left with Maruti , Hyundai and Honda , people will
still buy them just for their service .

The Indian Automotive Scene explained in one post!

[Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by parrys

Talk about quality & taking customer feedback seriously.
But I guess, this is the best Mahindra can do, really.
[/ATTACH]

It's really unfortunate when a substantial purchase made with the heart overcoming the mind goes wrong. Not only do you suffer during this particular instance, in the future when you are in a decision making situation and you are tempted to follow your heart, your mind is bound to bring this up

I think your best bet is, as others have suggested, is to pursue the independent garage route. This is a niche product for Mahindra and they aren't going to bother making the investments required at the production line to improve the product. I think Mahindra are very aware that this is currently a 'no alternative' product. If the XUV had a similar issue they would have reacted differently, because that customer has a variety of options before him. Added to that, I am pretty sure the current version of the Thar is not going to be compliant with any of the upcoming safety regulations either, so they are not going to invest anything more in what is a short lived platform.

To the experts in the forum - is there really any way to address rust post the fact? I was under the impression that once rust appears it has to be attacked locally, and then just keep a lookout for the next spot so that you can catch it early (much like some forms of cancer, as someone of the thread previously commented)

[renjuraju]

Originally Posted by parrys

Is the Mahindra Thar really worth it?

I bought it thinking this could be a car which would live with me for life. Age well, and given that there are no electronics, would be easy to maintain. I got it delivered on 24th December 2015.

But then, I guess it is going to rust and fall apart much sooner that any other car in the market.

Here's my story:


Now, I might be asking for a bit too much from Mahindra. But the least I expected, was my Thar to remain rust free at least for 5 years of ownership.

#TrueStory - #SadStory

Its really sad to read about your 2 year old Thar. But lets wait before we just blame Mahindra for the bad metal and body work that's used. My Hyundai Verna started rusting right in the first year of use. Its now has rusted parts all over and time and again I had brought this to the notice of the service people at Hyundai, they just brush it off saying that its quiet normal in Mumbai. But thats not the case with my Maruti Suzuki Alto, even after heavy use ( around 60,000 kms in less than 3 years) there isn't any rusting anywhere on the car. I also have a year old Honda Unicorn 160, even that has started to rust

My friend has a 5 year old Vento, it does have some mechanical problems, but even his car does not have any major rusting issue.

I think Vw's and Suzuki's use the best metal as far as sub- 20 lakh cars are concerned, rest all manufacturers in India just take the customer for granted when it comes to metal quality.

[parrys]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Really unfortunate to read about your experience parrys. At times, I do get tempted to get one while it is still on sale. Fact is, it has no real alternative. So, M&M is milking it for all it's worth (and probably more!). That is how you explain the price - 10-odd lakhs. Whenever, I get tempted, one look at the on-road price is enough to bring me down to reality. I may still blow some money on a pre-owned one someday, but, no way can I convince myself to pay a million bucks for a brand new piece.

I am sure, you aren't the first one to raise this concern. They must be aware of this problem and by now, would probably have a s-o-p document ready at the service centres. It probably is heart breaking, but clearly, they don't care.

I know what I am about to recommend might not be acceptable, but, give an independent garage a chance to rectify these problems. A capable one may surpass the service centre in terms of quality of work and would cost lesser (both in terms of your time and money). Now, finding such a setup is another quest in itself, maybe, T-BHP directory can help?

Let this set an example. Don't get tempted. I did give in, and now I might give up. The guys involved in the development of the Thar, also own the Thar. And guess what, even their cars are rusting and there's very little to be done. Speaks a lot about how helpless Thar owners are going to be.

Originally Posted by Lone Ranger

It's really unfortunate when a substantial purchase made with the heart overcoming the mind goes wrong. Not only do you suffer during this particular instance, in the future when you are in a decision making situation and you are tempted to follow your heart, your mind is bound to bring this up

It's tough to say you won't make a similar decision in the future. But for sure, I would never settle for a Mahindra, ever again.

Originally Posted by renjuraju

IBut lets wait before we just blame Mahindra for the bad metal and body work that's used.

I think Vw's and Suzuki's use the best metal as far as sub- 20 lakh cars are concerned, rest all manufacturers in India just take the customer for granted when it comes to metal quality.

I had a Hyundai Verna, first gen. Used it from 2008 till 2015 before I replaced it with the Thar. Rusting was seen only in the final year of ownership. And this did not bother me as it was 7 years after I bought the car. And it had costed my 8.5 lakhs. The Thar has burnt a hole worth ~10 lakhs, and it's now creating a rust hole which probably will never be resolved.

[sandeepmohan]

Jeep is in India alright but I don't think they are worth 5-7x more than a Mahindra. Off course, our import duty structure is to blame for that. This isn't a brand that is the last word when it comes to peace of mind. Off course, they are no longer shoddy in terms of build quality.

To me it feels like Mahindra Marketing thought, hey, there's lots of people out there with a lot of disposable income (which is true) and who don't really care about the problems cause money takes care of that too. Lets build them this fancy looking off road vehicle. All we're going to give it is a nice engine and the ability to go off road. The rest can be made from recycled Coca Cola cans. They succeeded with this plan.

A friend who owns a heavily reworked Willy's once took a Thar for a spin and said to me, there is nothing in it apart from the engine and ride that appeals. He was also baffled when I told him how much it costs. To him, the Thar was worth no more than 30% of what Mahindra are asking.

I drove a Thar and really liked it. Will I pay close to 12 lacs for one? No way. Heck; I rather buy a rickety old Mahindra for around 20% of the cost, spend anther 20% tops to rebuild it, modernize all the mechanical bits and I am sure I will have something as good and with more history surrounding it.

Mahindra knows all too well that lots of people want a nice looking jeep but don't want or don't care to go through the headache of building one themselves cause it takes time and effort. They also have the advantage of nobody competing with them with such a vehicle. The day Maruti (even Isuzu building a cheaper D Max) decide to plonk in the dated Fiat engine under the hood of their relic Gypsy and spend a little time improving some bits, the Thar is probably dead. I will also admit that a Gypsy bought at today's asking price is equally ridiculous but between the two, the Gypsy is still the way I would go even with a less capable engine. I know it won't rust and I know it won't fall apart. If I need any spare, it'll be on my door step the very next day.

The Thar also reminds of the days when we only had Fiat's and Ambassadors. The first thing you did after you bought one of these cars was to send it for rust proofing and welding the things the chaps at the factory forgot. My uncle needed to weld the rain gutters on his Ambassador cause all the factory did was spot weld it.

On one side, Mahindra build the excellent XUV and on the other, an all out off road/lifestyle vehicle with next to no build quality. Wonder what the factory PDI consist of for the Thar? Don't they have any pride in what they do?

If you are a automobile journalist, you have the ability to flag things like this to Mahindra. I wonder what Mr. Mahindra will have to say if you tweet him about this.