[Gannu_1]

Boarded an Xcent cab from Ahmedabad airport yesterday and the odo read 2.46L km. The driver said the car is a little over 2 years old. The fleet owner used to get all his cars serviced regularly, the driver said.

Sorry no snaps unfortunately - was in a hurry.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

I did some searching on TeamBHP and found a huge number of threads where owners are claiming that the Fiat sourced DDIS having done 2,00,000 kms easily on the Swift. Multiple such threads are easily available on team bhp. However, I could not locate similar data points for the Hyundai 1.6 CRDi engine but I did locate a few long term ownerships for the older Verna prior to the Fluidic.

My 1st gen Hyundai Tucson CRDi (2005 make) served me well until 1,45,000 km. Turbo was showing signs of oil leak, so it was overhauled ~1,15,000km. Even turbo should get the benefit of doubt as I bought the car used with 60,000km on ODO and the 1st 2 owners may or may not have followed proper warm-up and cool-down idling. Yet, the engine ran fine all the way till 1,45,000km when the car met with an accident and was a total loss. So my first hand experience is Hyundai CRDi engines are very good, they will just keep running as long as you follow proper warm-up and cool-down and change oil regularly.

My ownership thread for reference:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-replaced.html

[aadya]

Originally Posted by Gannu_1

Boarded an Xcent cab from Ahmedabad airport yesterday and the odo read 2.46L km. The driver said the car is a little over 2 years old. The fleet owner used to get all his cars serviced regularly, the driver said.

Sorry no snaps unfortunately - was in a hurry.

I am not contradicting. But Diesel cabs should not be considered in the equation at all. Cabs usually has continuous running throughout the day. They hardly cool off. Diesel engines hardly have any stress once it is heated up, except while lugging/overusing clutches. So its natural to find high mileage diesel engine as cabs.

In contrast, private owned diesel cars, in general, has less day to day mileage and long duration of ownership. Every cold start puts huge stress on the diesel engines and turbos. I have experience with pre v2 indica diesel - 125k no trouble, Ford Ecosport TDCi 70k - no trouble, Bolero 1.2k no trouble, Hyundai I20 CRDI 80k - no trouble.

I use Shell Helix mineral oil for all the vehicles except when coerced by ASS. Do the oil change 1000kms earlier than the recommended intervals. Turn on the ignition for 2-3 minutes before driving out in the mornings and after longer stops. Do not turn off the engines in safe parkings while on highway drives.

[pedrolourenco]

If you stick to the service schedule most engines last much longer than you think. I was told by an employee of one of the European manufacturers that a Petrol engine should last 10 L Kms and a Diesel engine should last 6 L Kms. Now even if you say Indian conditions are harsh compared to Europe and factor in a 30% reduction to the above figures, you are still looking at a pretty long life for your engines.
My brother has a Maruti 800 that has run over 4 L Kms without any major work. It's not one of those well maintained cars cosmetically but it's serviced regularly and it still runs.

[Jeroen]

As pointed out by several members, proper maintenance is key to longlevity of an engine, any engine for that matter. I would like to mentioned a few other factors which actually, are even more crucial: properly warming up the engine on start up. So when cold, dont let it idle. Set off straight away, try not to rev and or strain the engine until 10-15 minutes into yuur drive.

(lots of short drives will cause more wear and tear then long drives)


The other thing to consider is what are the critiria for calling an engine end of life? Without a common definition it is difficult to provide a precise answer to your question.

I would say there are (at least?) three different points of view / definitons:

1) Technical end of life, which means it's worn down in so many different ways that you would actually have to replace and or overhaul everything and it's performance is badly affected.
2) Economic end of life; the cost of a repair/maintenance doesnt make economic sense
3) Owner's perception (e.g. the owner just doesnt feel happy driving a car with so many miles on the clock.

On the technical end of life; as long as engines are properly maintained I'm not sure at what point you would get to the technical end of life.

I have seen cases where people claim an engine is done when it started using a lot of oil. We have a few thread discussing what can/should be considered 'normal oil consumption'. For most engines it could be 1l/1000km. That still doesnt mean an engine is done for if it uses more. My Alfa Spider currently consumes about 1L/500km. I'm not concerned nor am I going to do anything. It's a problem with the valve stem seal. Nothing to worry about, doesnt affect engine performance or reliability.

Economic end of life is also a little bit in the eye of the beholder. Different individuals will have different financial cut-off points. I rarely buy cars will less then 100-150K on the clock and they are almost all petrol cars.

Interestingly enough, I see a lot of people making decisions based on what the think/call economic end of life. The car/engine develops a fault. It will cost quite a bit to repair. But they don't because they believe further down the line more problems are likely to occur with more cost. It's rarely the actual repair/maintenance due, but the perceived potential cost in the (near) future that causes them to trade in the car.

Owner perception is just a fact of life and has little to do with facts. It's just how one feels. If my wife's car develops two problems in one week, she will simple refuse to drive it ever again, because she doesnt trust it anymore. A bit extreme, but true and you'll get the point.

I cant really how things are in India, but I would say in the west for several decades already cars rarely end being scrapped because the engine is at end of life. I would say it is usually a combination of economic end of life and owner's perception that gets a car scrapped. In most cases the engine is still fine and could be perfectly serviced.

Jeroen

[stable rock]

I had very good experience with Hyundai CRDi ( 2005 Elantra 2.0L Diesel). Used till 2.23 lacs kms and the engine was in top condition. Regular service was done every 10k kms, along with replacement of timing belts as per Hyundai recommended intervals. Attaching a pic of the odometer before selling the car.

[get2bid]

I just finished clocking 67K km on my Hyundai i20 Active, July 2015 model. So far it is running as good as the day I bought it. Servicing done every 10K Km without fail. Like others mentioned, the key is servicing at regular intervals and making sure that the oil is changed regularly. Should be good to run for at least 1.5L km.

[drhoneycake]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Context:

Given that the ODO is at 67,000 kms, he is wondering how much longer he can keep the car for safely in terms of engine life for the 1.6 CRDi Engine of the Fluidic Verna

Requesting the long term owners of the Fluidic Verna to post their experiences more and inputs from the owners of other Hyundai diesels are also welcome.

I own a Dec Registered 2014 Fluidic Verna CRDI SX(O) with over 1.15lac kms on the ODO. Everything is stock, still runs like the day I got her home, pulls effortlessly even today with 5 people and full luggage. Have done drives lasting over 15 hours at a time. Absolutely no issues whatsoever. Just regular oil changes and general maintainence at my trusted FNG. Stock timing belt, stock clutch, everything as is from the factory. I think she will easily clock 2 lac kms plus at this rate. IMHO Hyundai diesels are as reliable as Toyota diesels.

No reason for any concern buddy, stick to regular oil changes and maintainence and she will keep munching miles effortlessly.

Originally Posted by MalluDude

Regarding the 1.6 CRDI in the Fluidic verna, I have 3 friends who own 2011 and 2012 model ones, with a running of 1.25-1.5 lakh KMs and they haven't reported any issues, barring the odd soggy suspension.

Here's mine on its 3rd birthday Now done over 1.15lac kms.

[jay3sh]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Context:
"Saar Hyundai diesels will develop problems after 80K and generally last only till 1 lakh". The same guys will vouch and claim that the Honda Engines or the Fiat engines will easily last 2 lakh plus kms easily...

The intent of this post is to generate some proof points from the TeamBHP community to understand the reality and collect factual data points rather than go by perception.

Requesting the long term owners of the Fluidic Verna to post their experiences more and inputs from the owners of other Hyundai diesels are also welcome.
[/i]

Inline to rest of the posts above, our December 2011 1.6 Crdi fluidic Verna run a good 96,000 odd kilometres before getting damaged and sold off due Mumbai flooding in August last year. Zero niggles, just regular servicing and oil changes. Switched to fully synthetic engine oil post 60,000.

The car was very rarely driven on high RPMs, was always idled for a minute or two before and after drives. Infact service advisors at Modi Hyundai (Thane) were always appreciative and said this will easily last 200,000 km mark, which was my target too.

[sukiwa]

A BHPian sold his 2006 Verna CRDI after 2,63,000 Kms on odo; car was still going strong, quite an example for long-term reliability of Hyundai diesels, post here.

[jonesanto]

The only CRDI which had an issue was the Accent CRDI, 3 pot engine. All other CRDI's were pretty reliable if take care well.

In the end it's all come to how you maintain the vehicle from day one. Even small things which are overlooked could take a toll on engines life in the long run. Especially the modern diesel engines are very refined and reliable. A well maintained engine should do 1.5 easily.

Adding a pic of my Elanta 2006 CRDI, this is taken some point at 2013, car is in Kerala now, I will post the latest ODO when I get a change to take one.

[swiftdiesel]

Yes, as rightly mentioned by many members, the old 3 cylinder 1.5 CRDi of the Accent was the problematic one. It had many issues and never lasted as long. This infamous engine also brought in this tag line that Hyundai diesels aren't as reliable as some others. Many people still live by that old adage (I did too!) and never buy a Hyundai for the same reason.

I did some Google research on this just before buying my i20 diesel to put my apprehensions to rest. Hyundai unlike others didn't want to use another manufacturer's diesel engine and being relatively new to the European market (diesel territory at that time), they wanted to compete with established European rivals. Their R&D wasn't as strong then and due to this, outsourced their diesel engine lineup to VM Motori. Big mistake. The engines VM Motori developed were very powerful but never reliable. It marred Hyundai's reputation not only in India but also in Europe. You can find countless posts on forums that talk about this.

Somewhere in 2007 or 2008, Hyundai released their first CRDI diesels, the result of their own R&D in Korea and Germany. Their new range of diesels were technically brilliant. Like, for instance, their diesels are super refined and the chief engineer shares in an interview that the pistons were designed a certain way (forgive my layman talk here) that helped cancel out vibrations in the combustion chamber. They had a purpose built acoustics facility just to make their diesels never sound like a diesel. And, I believe, they succeeded.

Another technical improvement was to integrate the turbocharger with the exhaust manifold, there by saving on weight, ancillary parts and contribution to refinement. Their diesel engines also provide insulation material under the engine cover and not under the bonnet like some other manufacturers. Also, the chain drive inside the block was made with a special alloy that is (you guessed it) more quieter than some others out there. The result of all this is supremely refined diesel engine. Even the critics agree on how refined a Hyundai diesel could be.

Also, I'm sure engine experts will agree, to design an engine with a peak torque is much easier than to design one with a flat torque curve. The latter is technically more complex as the intake pressure has to be maintained through the entire range of the RPM unlike a diesel that produces a peak torque at a particular RPM. Well, for example, the 1.3 MJD (90PS) has a peak torque of 200Nm at 1750 RPM while the 1.4 CRDI has a flat torque of 220Nm from 1500 to 2750 RPM. That basically means the engine has to be enabled to produce that same amount through that entire RPM range. The result is almost nil turbo lag and ease of drivability.

These are but a few of the technically remarkable features of the Hyundai diesel line up and this is the fruit of their own R&D. The 1.6 CRDI is renowned globally for its technical brilliance, in terms of power, refinement and reliability. The 1.6, 1.4, 1.2 U2 diesels are all derivates of the 1.5 U diesel engine developed by Hyundai themselves. Later they released the R-line range of engines with improvements in the 2+ litre category and they are well reputed as well. These new range of Hyundai's own diesel engines are extremely reliable and even better in certain respects than some of their Japanese and European counterparts.

So, to answer the OP's query, Hyundai diesels are just as reliable as any other diesel manufacturer out there. I'm still in the process of discovering that in my i20 CRDI and it's been great so far.

[gajadonga]

I have an Elantra 2012 model have regularly got the vehicle serviced for every 10000kms.
Have changed the brake pads every 35000kms and the battery twice till date. Engine oil and filters occording to the schedule.
Have clocked around 150000kms till date. No major issues.
My starter on ignition has started some issues but have not changed any parts maybe another 5000kms afterwards need a pulley change that's what the service advisor has said.
Have a couple of times driven in knee deep water the vehicle never stopped.
As mentioned in the previous posts proper maintenance is the key.

[CLYDE]

My brother owns an August 2014 Hyundai Grand i10 (done trouble-free 51,100 km. till date) and a few weeks after the last service at 50,014 km., she refused to start readily. Once she started, the running was smooth, without any smoking from the engine. Pickup was normal, but when slowing down prior to coming to a halt from 4th or 5th gear, when the accelerator was released, we began experiencing a series of forward jerks at speeds of 40 kmph and below, till we released the clutch, before coming to a complete halt. This was not the case earlier.

Early last week, she refused to start at all. Luckily we were at Advaith Hyundai (AH), the Hyundai service point, to check up this very problem and they pushed the car in.

After elimination of the electricals and the glow-plugs, AH diagnosed the problem with the fuel-injectors (caused by impurities in the fuel, they said). The service people replaced the fuel injectors, the common-rail system and the fuel-pump from an old (nearly wrecked) i10 Grand taxi which was a trade-in, to convince us that was the problem, and the replaced system worked perfectly! The donor car was a (mis-)used and abused tourist taxi and must have filled a million liters of fuel at nearly every fuel outlet around the South and beyond... And my car, which has been babied from day one, gives this trouble!

AH sent the three injectors, the common-rail system and the fuel-pump off to Bangalore to be overhauled. Nayak Diesels & Electricals, Mahalaxmipuram, Bangalore, did an overhaul and changed three control valves in all the injectors. AH then replaced the fuel-filter and cleaned the fuel-tank and fuel-lines out.

I am attaching a visual of the replaced Control Valves.

The bill for repairs came to a whopping Rs. 46,313 and it is close to Re.1 per km. driven. The car is back on the road now and back to her normal self, but it is a real loss.

Some background : my brother and I are the only drivers of this vehicle.
The car is filled at ONE INDIANOIL FUEL PUMP ONLY - never elsewhere. We have been filling both diesel at this pump since 1996 (for my various cars) and have had no problems whatsoever. The vehicle has been entirely serviced and maintained by AH from Day One.

I have the following questions and solicit some expert advise.

What could have caused this problem?
Adulterated fuel,
A problem with the injectors,
Injectors going out of calibration,
Faulty parts, or
Plain bad luck?

Could this problem recur? On advise from Advaith Hyundai's Works Manager, I have changed my fuel-point : from IndianOil to Bharat Pet.

Is there any way I can avoid this in future? How?

Is any diesel-fuel-additive required to be used?

Should I retain the car or trade her in for something else?

Hope to hear from someone out there. Thanks a million in advance.

CLYDE

[batish]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

"Saar Hyundai diesels will develop problems after 80K and generally last only till 1 lakh". The same guys will vouch and claim that the Honda Engines or the Fiat engines will easily last 2 lakh plus kms easily...

No! Absolutely wrong.

Requesting the long term owners of the Fluidic Verna to post their experiences.

I have the same 2013 model and it has clocked around 140K+ and has been niggle free except for clutch till now. As other members have pointed out, you only need to stick to the specified service intervals mentioned in manual.

For reference, here is an image of the odometer.

Originally Posted by CLYDE

I have the following questions and solicit some expert advise.

What could have caused this problem?
Adulterated fuel,
A problem with the injectors,
Injectors going out of calibration,
Faulty parts, or
Plain bad luck?

Not an expert but it could be plain bad luck. Wasn't car in warranty? If not, you could have asked for goodwill warranty since you serviced from same dealership for all services.

Could this problem recur? On advise from Advaith Hyundai's Works Manager, I have changed my fuel-point : from IndianOil to Bharat Pet.

Since they have already changed the components I don't think it will recur, if they diagnosed the problem correctly.

Is any diesel-fuel-additive required to be used?

I don't think you there is any need for fuel additives these days.

Should I retain the car or trade her in for something else?

Since you have already taken the depreciation hit it doesn't make sense to sell the car after a single instance of break down. Sometimes it happens. Even after selling it the amount you'll spend to buy a new car + Insurance etc. would nowhere be close to the amount you spend on repairs on your existing car.

Refer to this thread (ARTICLE: YOUR 5 year old car : Keep, Upgrade or Swap?):