Planning to grove my alto yes or no???

extreme_torque · 11th December 2006, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaizer Sozay

Guys yes you need to replace all the gaskets,
I have given a very detailed explaition of the process here including pics of the entire Process from start to finish, post no 96
For the record i even included a comparitve study of PUC certificates.
Now if there is anything else you all would like to know please dont hesitate to ask.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...14-5-kmpl.html

Kaizer, I could not find any difference in the head with grooves and the non grooved one, can you please circle the grooved area in red.

Kaizer Sozay · 12th December 2006, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Kaizer, I could not find any difference in the head with grooves and the non grooved one, can you please circle the grooved area in red.

Ok im not too good at this imaging part but sorry guys this is the best i can do.

You can do one grrove per cylinder or do two since mine is an mpfi zen i made 2 per , therefore a total of 8 grooves

Kaizer Sozay · 12th December 2006, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Kaizer, I could not find any difference in the head with grooves and the non grooved one, can you please circle the grooved area in red.

I finnaly got it right, this is an image of the grooves circled the grroves in red as requested by you..

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4571/grooovesys6.jpg

Kaizer Sozay · 12th December 2006, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Rider

Team,

Thanks for all your inputs, I was not able to go to mysore last weekend. Well, The alto he has done-up is in bangalore now. Planning to drive it tommorrow .

All said and done, The warranty will go for a toss.. Apart from this, can someone tell me how much will it cost me to put the car back into stock condition???(Just considering something on the long run)

Again, after I do the changes, Can I still use normal fuel in the car?? Dont want to add anything like acetone or 2t oil as well...

What is the differnce between grooving an mpfi and carb engine?? Which one is likely to bring good results???

Sorry that I am asking a lot of questions

Ok trust me you would never want to go back to driving stock, if you really do then a new head would cost you 20K + the gaskets and all would be arounf 7K
yes you can use normal fuel and get desired results, i use the acetone and all that jazz coz i have felt a difference however thats entirely up to you.
grooves can be done on any engine from one as small as a lawn mover onwards.
keep shooting questions Knight rider i can empathize with you because i was as aprehensive about this when i started out. it took me 3 months to finally muster courage to get my engine grooved.

finetuning · 12th December 2006, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

A side question for you guys.

Do you guys replace with new head gasket and new cyl head bolts when you pull the head out and put it back. These things are kinda expensive and must be taken into account.

Dear Mpower,

We need to replace head gaskets as we are not frequently opening engine head.....also if possible we can replace other gaskets.....also if head bolt are out of shape or having thread problem then only we need to change otherwise not needed.....

Dear vezj420,

With grooves & increased compression we dont need to use high octane fuels ....this is the best part of grooves.....under normal circumstances increasing compression we need to start using high octane fuels to avoid pinging & detonation but with grooves just ordinary fuel will work..........

Using acetone & 2T are as you correctly said for different purpose & not to be mixed with grooves..........even with grooved car I found difference in performance but need not to be mixed with groove theory......

Enjoy....

Knight Rider · 12th December 2006, 19:22

Thanks for all the information fine-tuning and kaizer, How do you think grooving will Effect the engine in the long run?? The reason why I asked about putting the car back to stock is to get a good resale value.. Alto has a good resale value and not everyone would be aware about grooving...

Do you guys know anyone who has long term ownership experience after grooving the car??

Is there some sort of a seal by which the dealership can know that the engine has been opened???

VEJ420, I will Pm you the details man....

Kaizer Sozay · 13th December 2006, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Rider

Thanks for all the information fine-tuning and kaizer, How do you think grooving will Effect the engine in the long run?? The reason why I asked about putting the car back to stock is to get a good resale value.. Alto has a good resale value and not everyone would be aware about grooving...

Do you guys know anyone who has long term ownership experience after grooving the car??

Is there some sort of a seal by which the dealership can know that the engine has been opened???

VEJ420, I will Pm you the details man....

No way can anyone know that you have opened the engine up. Long term owner ship... HMMM yes somender singh.
I have driven over 5000 kms after grooving, yes the long term effects are a better burn therefore a better life out of the engine.Trust me anyone who drives your car will want to buy it immedately, (Better FE, Better Power.= Better Resale value

) i dont seee myself selling my car though.

vezj420 · 13th December 2006, 21:39

Kaizer....that's a really clean looking cylinder head!! Yes, grooves are such a simple yet effective way to extract all the good (power, FE, etc) u can from your engine.

@Knight, reselling your Alto with grooves would be like selling a total 'sleeper' car! i.e. no one would know the difference unless they drove it, at which point they will up their 'best offer'!!

Boom Shiva · 14th December 2006, 10:17

Hey guys just a question here: Porting and polishing itself is supposed to give you a 10-15% increase in power and FE.

Since porting/polishing happens along with the grooving, how do you know it is the latter and not the former which is making the difference?

Kaizer Sozay · 14th December 2006, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Shiva

Hey guys just a question here: Porting and polishing itself is supposed to give you a 10-15% increase in power and FE.

Since porting/polishing happens along with the grooving, how do you know it is the latter and not the former which is making the difference?

I have only grooved my head, not done any porting polishing. the effects of power & fe are on account of the grooves

vezj420 · 14th December 2006, 13:56

@Boom Shiva, yes, P+P work does increase power & FE, depending on how the work is carried out (esp. the porting part).

Grooves further enhance power & FE by increasing the turbulence in a given combustion chamber.

Somender Singh has worked on (both directly or through proxy) a helluva lot of engines, Indian-market and otherwise. He himself says that he actually does minor porting and polishing before grooving on Indian cars. There are some engines (esp. from the American muscle cars etc - check his site) that don't need porting and polishing at all - given their monstrous/efficient intake valve areas. Even on these engines, there have been proven benefits of grooving.

So in a nutshell - porting+polishing is a way of increasing & smoothing out the intake area, while grooving increases turbulence for a much more efficient burn....

Hope that helps! comments are invited.......

Boom Shiva · 14th December 2006, 14:42

Thanks guys. Too bad there's no one in Bombay who knows how to do a good grooving job. My car was ported/polished last week.

Ford Rocam · 14th December 2006, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Shiva

Thanks guys. Too bad there's no one in Bombay who knows how to do a good grooving job. My car was ported/polished last week.

a Turner who can do porting/polishing & Facing can do grooving as well.

finetuning · 14th December 2006, 15:24

Dear BS,

I had only done grooving minus porting & polishing.......compression was increased but that too was to compensate for increasing the surface area by grooving on engine head......yes porting & polishing do increase performance.....

I had done gooves myself at my local garage........also Kaizer has done at his local mechanic but grooves were done by me....its very simple but need to be done with good understanding....

Enjoy....

vezj420 · 14th December 2006, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by finetuning

I had done gooves myself at my local garage........also Kaizer has done at his local mechanic but grooves were done by me....its very simple but need to be done with good understanding....

@finetuning, please elaborate on "good understanding"!

As psycho mentioned on the grooved esteem thread, randomly placed grooves will not work. My understanding, for Indian engines anyway, is two grooves per cylinder perpendicular to the center of the cylinder's combustion area towards the spark plug port. Is this correct?

12th December 2006, 19:22	#36
Knight Rider BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 282 Thanked: 28 Times	Thanks for all the information fine-tuning and kaizer, How do you think grooving will Effect the engine in the long run?? The reason why I asked about putting the car back to stock is to get a good resale value.. Alto has a good resale value and not everyone would be aware about grooving... Do you guys know anyone who has long term ownership experience after grooving the car?? Is there some sort of a seal by which the dealership can know that the engine has been opened??? VEJ420, I will Pm you the details man....
	() Thanks

13th December 2006, 21:39	#38
vezj420 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 266 Thanked: 23 Times	Kaizer....that's a really clean looking cylinder head!! Yes, grooves are such a simple yet effective way to extract all the good (power, FE, etc) u can from your engine. @Knight, reselling your Alto with grooves would be like selling a total 'sleeper' car! i.e. no one would know the difference unless they drove it, at which point they will up their 'best offer'!!
	() Thanks

14th December 2006, 10:17	#39
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	Hey guys just a question here: Porting and polishing itself is supposed to give you a 10-15% increase in power and FE. Since porting/polishing happens along with the grooving, how do you know it is the latter and not the former which is making the difference?
	() Thanks

14th December 2006, 13:56	#41
vezj420 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 266 Thanked: 23 Times	@Boom Shiva, yes, P+P work does increase power & FE, depending on how the work is carried out (esp. the porting part). Grooves further enhance power & FE by increasing the turbulence in a given combustion chamber. Somender Singh has worked on (both directly or through proxy) a helluva lot of engines, Indian-market and otherwise. He himself says that he actually does minor porting and polishing before grooving on Indian cars. There are some engines (esp. from the American muscle cars etc - check his site) that don't need porting and polishing at all - given their monstrous/efficient intake valve areas. Even on these engines, there have been proven benefits of grooving. So in a nutshell - porting+polishing is a way of increasing & smoothing out the intake area, while grooving increases turbulence for a much more efficient burn.... Hope that helps! comments are invited.......
	() Thanks

14th December 2006, 14:42	#42
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	Thanks guys. Too bad there's no one in Bombay who knows how to do a good grooving job. My car was ported/polished last week.
	() Thanks

14th December 2006, 15:24	#44
finetuning BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 394 Thanked: 13 Times	Dear BS, I had only done grooving minus porting & polishing.......compression was increased but that too was to compensate for increasing the surface area by grooving on engine head......yes porting & polishing do increase performance..... I had done gooves myself at my local garage........also Kaizer has done at his local mechanic but grooves were done by me....its very simple but need to be done with good understanding.... Enjoy....
	() Thanks