[Turbotechnixx]

It is really sad that the owner had to go thru this, especially on his maiden ride from showroom to home. I wonder what the levels of QC are followed at FCA?

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by ironshark

We Indians clearly lack on close looping. It's sad to see people shout their lungs out when things go wrong (and rightfully so), but at the same time, fail to appreciate the quick and positive turnaround. Not only in this context, but in general as well. Like they say, you do 100 things right, nobody bothers, you do 1 thing wrong, and all hell breaks lose. Would've been nice if the guy in question here had promptly updated his FB post highlighting the action taken.

+1

This is a populist resolution which is why we at least know what exactly happened. We have cases where the OP is bound by a legal contract that prohibits them from mentioning the resolution. And that can be more frustrating.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

I do empathize with the owner who had to face this with a brand new car (3 hrs old). But I don't understand the harsh reactions of the members of this forum for one off failure and with no reports of any other similar failures. Yes, there is a defective vehicle delivered to the owner but this doesn't mean that company is producing sub standard cars and has serious quality issues.

For the price at which the product has been purchased, and the no. of complaints (already highlighted earlier on this thread) for this product (% wise), it's fair to say that Jeep is slacking in QC. Either Jeep or the dealership. But someone is dropping the ball.

Originally Posted by ant_vas

Reading thru 4 pages of this post made me wonder: why are we so quick on pouncing on anything negative? Are we too much influenced by the new channels which broadcast nothing but negative news?

On this forum i have seen members getting worked up especially when issues are reported with the word "Fiat" in them and all hell brakes loose and its free for all.

Look at several threads: be it the Tata product that had a Check Engine light on delivery, the BMW that had suspension failure episode or when they didn't initially honor warranty on a 730, the one where Skoda is bashed for delivery a fake Black edition, Isuzu for not assisting a customer when a dealer shut down.

You've got to give credit to the forum and members for being *very* fair in both, criticism and praise.

My humble request to other fellow forum members is to always look at both sides of the story before jumping to conclusions.

People have opinions one way or the other when a story breaks out but the discussion ends up being fair when both sides of the story are known.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by ant_vas

Reading thru 4 pages of this post made me wonder: why are we so quick on pouncing on anything negative?

FIAT does deserve some of the flak, but not the amount that is heaped on them IMHO

Lets not mix up the two things that happened now. Whatever happened with the vehicle is horrible and should not have happened on a brand new vehicle, especially in that price range.

No justification can be provided for that. Its simply inexcusable.

PS - Its either brand Jeep. Or FCA. Not FIAT.

Originally Posted by Engine_Roars

From what I read it seems that Jeep is ready to exchange the vehicle, however it is nothing to boast about.

FIAT, if exchanges the vehicle without any ifs and buts, it is nothing to be proud of, this is the least they can do.

Disagree with this.

While the product QC department has failed big time - the customer service department has absolutely shined here. This good a turnaround in such a short timeframe is exceptional in the Indian context. Credit where its due please.

You can read up a similar example with BMW - the link given in earlier page. The just fixed the vehicle and provided extended warranty on it. A replacement in a couple of days is brilliant customer service from FCA.

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by Klub Class

Just read the latest update by the owner in the original poston Facebook :

Attachment 1723152
Screenshot taken at 09:43 AM today

Would appreciate if OP could get more details from the owner

Great customer service by FCA. However, it's really scary for any prospective buyers having such a humongous QC issue being carried over to the customer. Really awkward what happened is.

[QuickLink]

FCA has done a really good job by replacing the vehicle. FCA should take a look at it's QC department so that such mistakes don't happen again. It surely dents the image of the brand.

Congrats to the proud owner.

[sj_koova]

I feel happy for the owner, but wonder why we are hailing praises for FCA. Can't they do quality control for merely 3000 cars they make for India!

At this rate, Maruti can have 4500 suspension failures a month and we should all be happy about it.

It is a serious quality lapse and replacing the car doesn't make it any light.

[hema4saran]

Originally Posted by sj_koova

I feel happy for the owner, but wonder why we are hailing praises for FCA. Can't they do quality control for merely 3000 cars they make for India!

At this rate, Maruti can have 4500 suspension failures a month and we should all be happy about it.

It is a serious quality lapse and replacing the car doesn't make it any light.

I agree with you. They didn't do the quality check appropriately at first place which might have gone fatal for the owner. But the good thing here is they acknowledged their issue and replaced the car immediately. In a country where customer laws are not properly in place, giving a new car immediately for their mistake needs to be appreciated. They should ensure that this is not happening in future for their cars since the same is car exported to other countries as well.

Consider the case of Skoda and think how they are handling their infamous DSG issue in our country. Until now there is no standard lifetime warranty in place for the DSG cars like other market and all the existing owners are in the mercy of Skoda India once the warranty is expired on their cars .

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by theredliner

Kind of ironic that FCA India, known for their poor service handled it way better than a 'premium' 'luxury' brand.

I don't think they can afford not to. With Jeep still trying to get a grip on the market, they will need to go out of the way to retain customers.

Fiat did not fail due to bad cars. As you say, it is the service that could be termed pathetic. Yes; the cars did not have the impeccable quality of a VW but they were well engineered cars. Heck; I've never heard of anything as catastrophic taking place on a Fiat but maybe that was just luck. After all, the cars are manufactured at a joint venture plant.

Credit to FCA for replacing the car without the customer ever having to go through the usual rigmarole of court battles and what not. However; they should not treat this incident the same way Indian Railways does when a train crash takes place, that is, let us disburse Rs. 500k to the next of kin to shut them up and we never really get to the bottom of what caused the accident. FCA need to identify this very car using cctv footage, go through every stage in the manufacturing cycle and figure out if it was a case of part quality of if the engineer applied incorrect torque to a bolt.

I want FCA to follow up. Set the standard for the industry. They need it more than anyone else if they want to survive in a highly competitive market.

[2himanshu]

It was a miracle that nothing happened to people traveling in that car. Our highways are unruly and imagine what had happened if some other vehicle had been a part of fiasco. The quality control is there for a purpose and nobody expects a bad apple after paying more than ₹2M.

But Jeep has also set a trend by replacing the vehicle and that should be a pat on their back.

My friend has a Compass, one of the very firsts. He has not faced any quality issues besides a door rattle. He travels at high speeds on 4 lane highways as the vehicle is easily capable of doing that quite effortlessly. My heart shudders by mere thought of something like this.

God bless s all!

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

True. That was very eerily similar (happened on delivery day as well) and BMW did provide full repair and extended warranty on the car. Hope Jeep takes note and takes fast action on the same.

Guess Jeep did even a better job than BMW and that does speak volumes about FCA's seriousness wrt India. Jeep went above my expectations

[vrprabhu]

Originally Posted by hema4saran

They didn't do the quality check appropriately at first place which might have gone fatal for the owner.

They should ensure that this is not happening in future for their cars since the same is car exported to other countries as well.

Very true. I have no idea how the assembly line of an automotive company works - could this particular process an automated task or is it undertaken by a human? Either way, it looks like the process checks couldn't catch this issue or probably this wasn't covered at all!

And, whether or not the car is exported, is it not the duty of the manufacturer to ensure that each and every vehicle which rolls out of the factory is 100% roadworthy?

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Fiat did not fail due to bad cars. As you say, it is the service that could be termed pathetic. Yes; the cars did not have the impeccable quality of a VW but they were well engineered cars. Heck; I've never heard of anything as catastrophic taking place on a Fiat but maybe that was just luck. After all, the cars are manufactured at a joint venture plant.

I want FCA to follow up. Set the standard for the industry. They need it more than anyone else if they want to survive in a highly competitive market.

As a product FIAT was somewhere at the top. In terms of service, it was close to the bottom. And now, in terms of production, this is shocking.

I used to think that the FIAT's Ranjangaon, Pune factory was world class (there is a thread about this factory in our forum) and a world class product from Jeep will take it a step further....

My two cents on the concluding lines of your post - If they could clearly come out with what went wrong with the car and issue a recall to ensure that similar mishap doesn't occur for the ones already sold (which would be a PR disaster), then surely they will setting standards.

Originally Posted by 2himanshu

It was a miracle that nothing happened to people traveling in that car. Our highways are unruly and imagine what had happened if some other vehicle had been a part of fiasco. The quality control is there for a purpose and nobody expects a bad apple after paying more than ₹2M

Exactly. Whether it was their good fortune or purely because the skills of the driver who had managed to steer the vehicle safely or both, I certainly don't expect a car driven out of the showroom to breakdown like this

After going through the posts, looked up the JDPower survey - the results speaks for itself :
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/study/20...Small-SUV/1136

[Mr.Boss]

Originally Posted by Amartya

Well, you do see the pinch-bolt still in place in the photo above, but usually there is a castle nut (with a cotter-pin) on the other side. No way for us to really tell, but if that's missing/not tightened, the ball-joint could come loose.

Adding the below explanation for better understanding.

- Pinch mechanism is to enhance better contact and rigid support (better load transfer and NVH)
- Ball joint is held in the position by the bolt, irrespective of tightening torque or even the presence of nut
- Since the bolt is already in place, there must be some other failure / wear either in the ball joint stud or the knuckle
- nut loosening alone can't get the ball joint detached from the position.
- It might be one of the reason for consecutive failures (in knuckle or ball stud)



Image source: Google. Added the ball stud cross section

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss

Adding the below explanation for better understanding.
- Ball joint is held in the position by the bolt, irrespective of tightening torque or even the presence of nut
- Since the bolt is already in place, there must be some other failure / wear either in the ball joint stud or the knuckle.
Image source: Google. Added the ball stud cross section

Thank you for the cross sectional drawing, that really helped understand the mechanism. I had assumed that upon tightening, the pinching portion of the knuckle formed a diameter less than the upper portion of the ball joint to hold it in place. Thanks to you, I see that the bolt itself should work as a stopper.
I wonder if the bolt got sheared off (as in, the bolt head would still be visible but the stopping mechanism for the ball joint would be compromised). I have to say, that seems far-fetched.

That being said, I personally prefer another popular design for lower ball joints. The ball joint is pressed into the knuckle itself, and it attached to the lower control arm with a tapered fit. With that design, the chances of the ball-joint popping out seems to be lower. This is a design common to Hondas; I've attached a photo from one of them (here, the ball joint is busted, but we do get a better look at the joint itself).

[vrprabhu]

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss

- Ball joint is held in the position by the bolt, irrespective of tightening torque or even the presence of nut

- Since the bolt is already in place, there must be some other failure / wear either in the ball joint stud or the knuckle

- nut loosening alone can't get the ball joint detached from the position.

- It might be one of the reason for consecutive failures (in knuckle or ball stud)

That was a helpful post.

Can you take a look at the second and third pictures of the opening post (which has been re-posted by you in #42)?

If I am not mistaken :

a. The pinch bolt appears to be in place.

b. The ball joint stud appears to be worn out (just a surmise by looking at the picture, but reality could be different).

Could it be that this particular part was defective (the triangular part comprising of the ball joint and stud, fitted on the trailing arm) leading to the disaster? Just wondering how many such parts are critical to road worthiness of a car?

[Mr.Boss]

Originally Posted by vrprabhu

b. The ball joint stud appears to be worn out (just a surmise by looking at the picture, but reality could be different)

Couldn't conclude with the available snaps and that's why I asked for better / clear snaps.

Originally Posted by vrprabhu

Could it be that this particular part was defective (the triangular part comprising of the ball joint and stud, fitted on the trailing arm) leading to the disaster?

Probabilities are,
1) Defective ball stud / knuckle
2) No proper torque. This weakens the rigid clamping between ball stud & knuckle. Few hundred kms of acceleration & deceleration is more than sufficient to damage / deform the matting area, resulting in this disaster.

IMO, if the case here is not a defective product and something related to the process (tightening torque) failure should happen on the knuckle first, being the weakest member (casting vs forging) Either the ball stud matting area or the bolt inserting hole should have turned oval or one of the pinching leg is cracked / deformed.

Originally Posted by vrprabhu

Just wondering how many such parts are critical to road worthiness of a car?

Almost every under body part (Wheel, tire, axles, brake, suspension, steering)