[Hayek]

Commiserations - you took a risk by buying this car, and have unfortunately gotten the wrong end of the stick. As others have mentioned buying a German with 90 k on the odo is a big risk - and buying that when the gearbox and engine have been replaced for unclear reasons is a bigger one. The only reason to buy such a car is if you get a terrific deal - I would not have paid more than ₹ 15 lakhs for this car ( viz less than 25% of the original price). If that was indeed the case, you are not that badly off - continue to keep the Ecosport for reliability, and use this car for fun. ₹10lakhs for 40000 km of great driving pleasure (mixed with free stints in the garage) is not a bad deal even if you take the dealers offer. The fact is that a two year old car with 40 k km on the odo would probably fetch just 40% of its original price - and we have seen examples of new 2 year old cars spending an inordinate time in the garage. I don’t think you have any claim against BMW or Infinity - second hand car purchases are always caveat emptor, they have honoured the warranty they gave you.

Yes, come November, you have a tough call to make. If you think you can’t afford the maintenance, sell it then for whatever you get, and buy something you can afford at that time. Best wishes and hope the troubles of this car are behind you.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by ACM

The Car looked really good, the interiors were like brand new and everything worked. The Engine and Gearbox both had been replaced for unspecified reasons at about 90,000 kms and the adaptive damper suspension too was renewed fully at that time.

As mentioned by others, you have taken a wrong decision. I have only seen things getting worsened when any of mine have gone bad. If you remember my thread about the battery failure on 7, it went multiple times for different reasons mostly created due to bad diagnosis or workmanship.

You can either sell this or exchange with a newer one. No use in wasting time & efforts with Dealership or the company. It's just another Job for them.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

As mentioned by others, you have taken a wrong decision. I have only seen things getting worsened when any of mine have gone bad. If you remember my thread about the battery failure on 7, it went multiple times for different reasons mostly created due to bad diagnosis or workmanship.

Yep remember your battery incident. It was the other way round with me. They actually replaced a 5 yrs old battery within warranty.

Originally Posted by Hayek

Commiserations - you took a risk by buying this car, and have unfortunately gotten the wrong end of the stick. As others have mentioned buying a German with 90 k on the odo is a big risk - and buying that when the gearbox and engine have been replaced for unclear reasons is a bigger one. The only reason to buy such a car is if you get a terrific deal - I would not have paid more than ₹ 15 lakhs for this car ( viz less than 25% of the original price). If that was indeed the case, you are not that badly off - continue to keep the Ecosport for reliability, and use this car for fun. ₹10lakhs for 40000 km of great driving pleasure (mixed with free stints in the garage) is not a bad deal even if you take the dealers offer. The fact is that a two year old car with 40 k km on the odo would probably fetch just 40% of its original price - and we have seen examples of new 2 year old cars spending an inordinate time in the garage.

Yes, come November, you have a tough call to make.

I do believe I have a clear claim on BMW as replacing parts under warranty cannot allow them to keep the car at the service centre for 25% of the time.

Nope it didn't come for anywhere close to as low as you have indicated. The extended warranty for 2 yrs was itself 2L plus and the Tyres 1L.

Yep I can afford the cost of repairs outside warranty but not afford the uncertainty and time wasted. There are other things to do in life. I though really hate having people take me for a ride and already have my third major battle going on at one end (after winning 2). BMW would be the fourth one as they say "If I choose to accept".

Yep tough calls to make. Thanks.

[vivekrvcse]

I think you just saved me a lengthy ordeal - was contemplating a 5 year old / 50k kms X3 at 35 percent price.

Buy a Santa Fe.

[sandeepmohan]

I would not head down the road, for a legal battle, over a used car purchase. With a new car, Sure.

I was in a similar situation as yourself about 14 months ago when I relocated. I had to buy a used car. The New Zealand market for used cars has to be experienced. You are flooded with options and the best part is all the cars are just fantastic when you see them. They mostly are too. Very rarely are you ripped off here as customer tolerance levels are very low. All it takes is one bad sale and your business could crumble and that is not something you want in a small country. You still need to be careful. Cars are all imports. The Jeep Compass sold in NZ is Made in India and comes with a Tiger Shark 2.4l engine. No diesel. Most new cars come from Japan and the used car market are all Japanese imports (Even Germans are imported from Japan) I had the option of buying German, Swedish or beautiful Italians for the same amount as Japanese. In some cases cheaper too. It was very tempting to buy a German car as I could not even dream of owning one in India. I was looking at a standard fare 3 series and a beautiful 5 series with a 6 pot petrol. Another option was a Volvo S60 and a VW Passat. I was advised by a buddy who works at a garage not to risk it for now as I was buying my first car with company money and not what I had earned. I could always buy one later. He was right.

In my search for a used car, almost all my options had clocked 100k km or had exceeded this number. It is very normal for even a 3 year old petrol car with an odometer reading 100k km.
Not too many diesels even though, like India, it is a cheaper fuel. The high odometer reading isn't a bad thing at all as long as schedule service has been carried out. This is also the result of a almost non existent rail network and not so many long distance bus services.I feel people ignore servicing their cars. Driving conditions are nowhere near as harsh as India that you could run a car without an oil change for two years and nothing happens to it. I know this as an owner admitted to me that he had not serviced his car for two years. Heck he did not even remember when he last changed the oil. The car ran absolutely fine though.

As someone who loves cars, it did matter to me what I drive. I can't be your standard fare Toyota (I'd love a GT86 but not right now) or Nissan. FM Tharian suggested I look at Subaru's and turns out, the Kiwi's love Subaru's though more the station wagon variety which is not my cup of tea. I could not afford a WRX level Japanese car. Sporty Japanese cars command a higher premium than Germans. A used Mitsubishi Evo X costs a ridiculous $40,000. Looked at several options and settled for a 2005 Subaru Legacy sedan with a lovely 6 pot boxer motor and all wheel drive. The car had clocked 77k km. I am pretty sure the odometer is fudged but there is little I can do about that. It was a Japanese import and I was the first owner in NZ. The odo shows 91k km today. The car runs great and has been trouble free for a year. I have had some expenses such as new battery, tires and replacing CV boots. I have carried out two services too in this time. These relatively minor fixes to the car did cost a bit (at an FNG) and that is when is struck me that if it cost me so much for a car like this, what would it cost to fix a German if ever something were to fall apart! This is the point where I recall my friends advice.

As GTO says, never ever touch a high mileage car. This applies more with anything that isn't Japanese. You could risk it with a Suzuki or a Toyota cause you probably can afford to fix them quite easily. With a German, it is a different ball game. The new ones are heavily reliant on complex software that you have no choice but to go back to the company to sort out issues. It is not worth it.

You made a mistake. Put it behind and move on. Sell your BMW and if you still feel like it and can afford one, get a new one.

[avishar]

Originally Posted by ACM

I do believe I have a clear claim on BMW as replacing parts under warranty cannot allow them to keep the car at the service centre for 25% of the time.

I think the issue here is less about the time BMW takes in diagnosing problems with your car, and more about the fact that the car is a lemon in capital letters.

Buying a 90K-ish run BMW in India with an engine and a gearbox change. That's like monetary suicide. Sell it ASAP.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Sorry to hear about your troubles ACM. The problems you are facing have more to do with the fact that engine and GB were replaced. Have seen 100k+ Kms driven BMW's and in most cases they don't require anything more than a suspension overhaul. Did you check for the reason of engine and gearbox replacement? Hydrolock?
In this case I am sure you paid a premium over the general market price as you got it from BMW's used car division. BMW has to work out on an extended warranty or a fair buy back offer for you. Good luck!

[reignofchaos]

This appears to be a flood damaged car. All electronics would not give up at the same time otherwise. If you have the patience, sue them for selling you a lemon. If not, cut your losses, get rid of the car and move on.

[rdst_1]

Everyone seems to be saying that these cars are not good for more than 1L kms. Even ones that have been taken good care of.
If the same is true for these cars in other countries as well, how do they manage to sell so well, especially in countries where daily running is more like US. Or are US buyers just as unhappy with their steeds.
Also what does one buy then, if they want to buy a luxury car which they want to keep for a long time.
Why have german cars failed to make a smooth transition into the electronic era whereas Japanese cars run for years without a hitch.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Everyone seems to be saying that these cars are not good for more than 1L kms. Even ones that have been taken good care of.
If the same is true for these cars in other countries as well, how do they manage to sell so well, especially in countries where daily running is more like US. Or are US buyers just as unhappy with their steeds.
Also what does one buy then, if they want to buy a luxury car which they want to keep for a long time.
Why have german cars failed to make a smooth transition into the electronic era whereas Japanese cars run for years without a hitch.

Actually I agree with your view points but:

1) Indian road conditions are in general worse. That said the Engine should not be affected while gearbox, transmission, suspension, and electronics would be impacted.

2) In the western world it is rare for a Loaner car to Not be provided. Here it is rarely provided.

3) If a standby car is provided the service centre will wish to deliver the repaired car back to the customer ASAP as their car is with the customer. Not the case in India.

4) In the western world my case would have resulted in compensation by BMW automatically it would not have even reached this stage.

5) Issue in my view is more with BMW India than anything else. The support when cars develop defects is absurdly slow. The downtime in my case could have been less than 1mth total instead of the more than 5 months that I have experienced.

[Epic]

Originally Posted by ACM

Yep I can afford the cost of repairs outside warranty but not afford the uncertainty and time wasted.

It is nice to know that you can afford the cost of repairs outside warranty. And that is something one must factor in anyway while buying a German car. However, I do not believe this is the car to spend your money and time on. Instead, sell it and buy a more reliable used German (the problem is that once you drive the Germans, you cannot really get used to the Japs or Koreans) or a new car itself.

[Ashdel]

I am seriously disappointed to read this .

My 7 year old Swift Vdi covered 1,75,000 km and never had anything major in life. I also want to move up and buy these super luxury cars some day in my life, but if they really last for like 1 lac km or have such a high maintenance, i would rather stick to mid range cars / brands.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Everyone seems to be saying that these cars are not good for more than 1L kms. Even ones that have been taken good care of.
If the same is true for these cars in other countries as well, how do they manage to sell so well, especially in countries where daily running is more like US.

The wear & tear on American cars is much lesser as its a 'freeway country'. Cars spend a majority of their commuting time on smooth freeways cruising at the same speed & in the same gear. I guess USA is the country that uses cruise control the most .

Bumper to bumper traffic is hard on the car. I'd say a 50,000 km car that's only seen bumper to bumper traffic is equal to perhaps a highway / freeway car with 1.5 lakh kms on the odometer.

With reference to my 10 year / 1 lakh km comment, no, I don't expect my 530d to fall apart at that mark. But it will definitely be more troublesome / painful to own than say, a 10 year old Fortuner or Civic.

[ACM]

Response from BMW:

"Dear Mr. Mehta,

This is further to your various telephonic conversations with the undersigned.

We are concerned to learn of the issues in your BMW and sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused. The overall satisfaction of our customers with the product and services offered by our organization and dealers is of great importance to us. We regret that your experience has been contrary.

In regards to the concerns raised by you, BMW India and your dealer has already provided a detailed explanation. We certainly acknowledge your discomfort and are sympathetic towards your predicament. However, we trust you would agree that technicalities can be challenging at times. Considering the present age (6th year of operation), and mileage (1,26,807km) of your vehicle, the issues cannot be classified as a flaw in product quality.

Further regarding your comments on the time being taken to procure the parts, we wish to assure you that it is our endeavor to provide all parts required for service and maintenance. However, we trust in your understanding that it is difficult to maintain a ready availability of all the parts at the dealership at all times. In such cases, the parts have to be ordered from our Central Warehouse.

We hereby request you to trust the dealer's explanation as they are well experienced and competent in handling such issues and interested to maintain long term customer partnership with you. It is our endeavor to build long-term relationships with our customers and provide best of services at all times that you have come to expect from the brand. Be assured that both BMW India and the Dealership are committed to provide you the best of attention and credible advice in good faith.

We hereby request your understanding in this matter.

With kind regards,
Shebin George
BMW India Customer Service"

This is standard fare just as was expected after my last conversation with them. But why give a 6yrs 200,000kms warranty?
And why should repairs under warranty take up 25% of the warranty period.
No more BMWs for me.
Courts maybe. Let me decide. I had raised the same issue through dealer 7 mths back and then given it another go. The issues started at 94500kms itself and the car was just 4 yrs old then not 6.

BMW will risk multiple cases against them should I win and of course I would claim damages for the effort as well in that case.

Maybe they think I will settle if I do file a case but the reverse would be true. Once one makes the effort one follows through.

[Chetan_Rao]

I usually stop reading a corporate response at the first 'but' or 'however'.

That response above isn't even suitably empathetic. They could've said 'you don't really expect a 6 year old car to be reliable, do you? Ha ha!' and it wouldn't be any more or less offensive to the owner's intelligence.