[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by androdev

There are two issues here:

1. 25% downtime during warranty repair, etc.: There is no strong enough case to go after BMW here. They are honouring the warranty obligations and they can easily defend it.

But why not. Sure there isn't any specific clause regarding the time taken, but if someone is willing to go to court for such deficient service, I think we should encourage them. If a positive decision is taken in this case, it will benefit all of the buyers.
I think it is not too much to ask for the warranty to be extended by at least the no of days the vehicle was incapacitated for. 25% of the warranty period is a long time. If it was a 4 year warranty, it would have meant 1 year of owning a car that one can't use it. Just offering a warranty shouldn't mean that the auto companies can take as long as they want to rectify issues in a car. And only court cases or lobbying for more consumer friendly laws will help in making the companies more accountable.
I loved the guy who, when going for a Tata Nexon, had the dealer sign an agreement regarding the terms of the sale. Maybe, people who are spending so much moolah on such luxury cars follow that guy and start making agreements on terms of sale and service with these big german brands so that the companies can no longer take it's customers for a ride due to our weaker consumer laws.

[ACM]

So how much down time should a person factor in for a car bought from a BMW Dealer with warranty? Evidently BMW feels 25% is par for the course. Maybe they feel 50% is also ok? Where is the line to be drawn? I used to think that 5% a year is max acceptable unless you have an accident (our fault or bad luck as the case may be) or a lemon (Manufacturers fault).

Why do they provide standby vehicles in the western world but not in India, are Indians second or third grade (Don't want to use the specific word). Do we not pay for service? In fact is Labour not cheaper in India.

We buy the BMWs for much more than the western world but evidently they feel we deserve a lower level of service?

So let's say a car is bought new if 5th year onwards 25% is the down time then I guess 3rd and 4th years might be at 15% and similarly reduced for 1st and second years.

So when we buy a "Premium" vehicle we need a second similar "Premium" vehicle to maintain the lifestyle and comfort or we would need to dilute the same with a second Japanese beater vehicle to do the actual commuting?

I stay in a hamlet of Bungalows and while all the neighbours can afford maybe even more premium vehicles (none are car enthusiasts but for me) and generally would buy them new with a solitary exception all have selected to go in for Innovas etc. After my experience (and we meet monthly for a joint dinner) seeing my X3 disappear frequently they have all concluded that Beemers are not for them.

A couple of prospective BMW preowned vehicle buyers reached out to me recently seeing my posts. I was hard pressed to give them an unbiased view after my experience.

I reached out to about 20 senior BMW India employees using LinkedIn yesterday. None have got back to me.
Seeing that more that 5000 CEO and another 1000+ CXO are directly connected to me on LinkedIn I have my task cut out to make them aware of the risks with a BMW even under warranty.

Social media is new age and fun especially if you have genuine facts to share.

[Chetan_Rao]

BMW could and probably will try to brush you off (they've tried already), but they need to understand they're losing business the longer this drags on.

There's enough in this story to dissuade a bunch of potential buyers without the owner personally putting anyone off buying a BMW.

I don't expect businesses to be unilatetally generous, they'll never be, but I do expect them to be smart enough to realise when to cut their losses, which ironically has been the 'practical' advice targeted at the owner here.

[octane1002]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

BMW could and probably will try to brush you off (they've tried already), but they need to understand they're losing business the longer this drags on.

There's enough in this story to dissuade a bunch of potential buyers without the owner personally putting anyone off buying a BMW.

Although I empathise with what OP is going through, there really isn't much here to dissuade a potential BMW /German trio owner (one who's in the market to buy a car brand new) here. Here's why:

The car in question was:

1. 90k kms when bought used

2. a car that had seen an engine/gb change for undisclosed reasons

Forget a BMW, how many of us would dare venture into a deal like this eyes wide open for any car? I wouldn't go near a Suzuki/Honda with that sort of history!

Had BMW hidden the history or sold it with tampered odo readings, the case would have been much much stronger. BMW honours warranty on parts covered, and plays it safe in this instance. For those asking if a lakh of kms is too much for a German, well, it all depends on how the car has been cared for those lakh kms.We do not have data on how well/badly kept the car was during the lakh kms. but an engine /gb replacement aren't promising signs to begin with.

Last but not the least, people often confuse 'Premium' offerigs (say BMW compared to other run of the mill offerings) with longevity/durability. What a lot of us miss out on is the fact that Premium offerings have a lot more tech/gadgetry, etc. and therefore the sum total of parts that may fail over the same tenure is higher compared to a no-frills (relatively speaking) offering. That's higher probability in mathematics.

There is a reason these cars come cheap in the used market (its the number of parts nearer to failing point and the prohibitive costs in replacing them).No free lunches as they say.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by octane1002

...really isn't much here to dissuade a potential BMW /German trio owner (one who's in the market to buy a car brand new) here...

Au contraire, there's plenty.

You're right about the risks the owner took on the car itself - I'm inclined to think he would've probably been more circumspect of the car's history if it was an open market purchase rather than a dealer-backed one - but at the higher end of the spectrum, the overall brand experience matters as much, if not often more than the product itself.

That's where the owner has been shortchanged, and if a brand exudes the perception where a buyer can't trust whether he'll get the premium experience he signed up for, it does dissuade people who care for more than the badge and snob value. Value consciouness isn't limited to budget categories, though it may manifest in different ways as one moves up the chain.

Contrast this to how D-BHPian V.Narayan has been (and continues to be) treated by Lexus through his ownership, it's night & day.

[octane1002]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Au contraire, there's plenty.

You're right about the risks the owner took on the car itself - I'm inclined to think he would've probably been more circumspect of the car's history if it was an open market purchase rather than a dealer-backed one - but at the higher end of the spectrum, the overall brand experience matters as much, if not often more than the product itself.

That's where the owner has been shortchanged, and if a brand exudes the perception where a buyer can't trust whether he'll get the premium experience he signed up for, it does dissuade people who care for more than the badge and snob value. Value consciouness isn't limited to budget categories, though it may manifest in different ways as one moves up the chain.

Contrast this to how D-BHPian V.Narayan has been (and continues to be) treated by Lexus through his ownership, it's night & day.

The initial part of my post was addressing the fact that potential new car buyers really wouldn't be dissuaded by the experience of a used car buy here.

Brand experience for a new car buyer would not really come into play here (unless we choose to view the BMW experience solely through the BMW Premium selection..which again I'm afraid wouldn't be the case for someone buying the product new).I still cannot establish a link between the quality of the manufacture and BMW Premium selection (for a new car buyer).The used car sales might from BMW Premium Selectuon may or may not take hit(depending on the way you choose to look at it.BMW continues to support part replacements, so unless its about downtime, can't really pick a fault with them).

V.Narayan bought his Lexus new , i.e., passed on from the manufacturer and delivered to him.There wasn't a gap of a lakh odd kms. before the car came to him.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by octane1002

The initial part of my post was addressing the fact that potential new car buyers really wouldn't be dissuaded by the experience of a used car buy here.

I must be missing the point you're trying to make, because I never made the difference between used and new purchases, though most luxury manufacturers bothering to have an official used car section indicates a sizeable market for such cars and their willingness to procure customers that way.

I don't have the stats to differentiate, and most of these experience-based stories are anecdotal anyway so I'll stop here and concede the point. To each his own.

Buying experience aside (which isn't the owner's primary issue here anyway), a post-sales customer is a customer paying for service and parts, sales channel notwithstanding. If there's a differentiation of overall 'brand experience' (which was my point entirely) between used and new, I'm unaware of it and would be open to be informed.

V.Narayan bought his Lexus new.....

Again, I fail to see what that has got to do with anything. I read through his ownership thread (and his decision-making thread before that), and the kind of customer-first treatment he got pre-purchase and continues to get post-purchase, even for a brand new car, is exceptional and unlike anything I've seen before. There are plenty of horror stories (read Turbanator's battery nightmare with a new BMW) where even a new car purchase didn't guarantee the buyer a good experience.

TL;DR: I'm speaking of overall brand experience, and unless manufacturers differentiate customer treatment based on where/how a car was bought, I'm not sure what the mode of purchase has anything to do with after-sales treatment of a customer.

[bhpfaninblr]

Originally Posted by GTO

[b]
Sorry to hear about the experience, ACM. Although I'm a big pre-owned car fan, I never recommend getting any car with over 40,000 km on the odo. Buying a complex European with 1 lakh km is just asking for trouble man. Now, I don't mind owning a European with 1 lakh km if those 1 lakh km were mine (i.e. my careful upkeep & maintenance), but I'd never buy someone else's 1 lakh km car.

Sorry to hear your experience ACM. I would say it is always wise to buy a brand new car. If distinguished and knowledgeable folks such as you can be taken for a ride, what about ordinary mortals?
Just keep away from 2nd hand deals unless it is a known person selling. Any car can be made to look new

Originally Posted by VellVector

Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issues with your car. So many replacements are a sign something went badly wrong with the car and no matter what a factory fit is a factory fit. A fix of this size at a dealership is bound to become problematic.

I think your best bet is to get rid of the car when possible, long wait times at the dealership is unfortunately just the reality with these Germans and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Can you find out why the engine was replaced at 90,000 km? I think there might have been some kind of accident or problem like that

I would suggest to sell the car and replace it with a Ford Endeavour or a hyundai Tucson. Tata/Mahindra is asking for trouble

[octane1002]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

TL;DR: I'm speaking of overall brand experience, and unless manufacturers differentiate customer treatment based on where/how a car was bought, I'm not sure what the mode of purchase has anything to do with after-sales treatment of a customer.

Point taken Chetan.While all of us consumers of premium cars would like to believe in the parity of treatment discussed in your post (esp. since it was purchased at a BMW used car outlet), we are still to get there in India, at least.

BMW selling a car through its outlet doesn't really equate to a promise of reliability.What it equates to is warranty or replacement of parts covered in the agreement if and when they fail within a specific tenure. Caveat Emptor is I would say in case of these Germans (and other exotics) is my advice to anyone contemplating a purchase on the premise of reliability/longevity just because it is sold through a company outlet. Committment to replacement for parts covered : yes; Reliable: no.(High TAT is a given in most CBUs, why single out BMW?).

[digital4u]

When I as a human being look at the success of the brands that you have mentioned i.e LG, BMW, I ask myself how they made it. Was it sheer luck? No ji, it’s the willingness to put it all on the floor and risk everything following a dream. Many decades ago BMW was a small company but stood out over the years for its racing heritage not off-road prowess - I believe Paris -Dakar test runs should be conducted in Mumbai. I was in Mumbai last month and it took my poor Uber driver over 1.5 hours to cover a small stretch of 14km and that’s not cause of the traffic per se but rather the constant potholes(mini wells) all over the road. I felt so sorry for the Uber driver that I ended up tipping him double the fare. And guess what, for the next three days of my visit to Mumbai, it was just the same mundane routine.

Have some understanding that none of your repairs were billed to you, tons of companies out there who would simply not even bother repairing these "issues" whilst on warranty.

For the guys who wish to buy a BMW, I have no doubt that none of these matters will bother you. Driven right, there is nothing in this world that rewards you as much as a BMW will surely do. Cars owned - BMW E30 325i, E30 325is, E36M3, E46M3, Toyota Corolla virtually every new top end model since 1988, 3 x Innova, 1 x Fortuner, Honda Civic, VW GTi MK4 & 5. Hope the list makes you understand that its truly "Horses for Courses"....Guess what my daily runner is, a Toyota and thats exactly why your neighbors chose a Toyota - Someone has been reading the JD Power Reports as part of their Research with "Reliability" in the search/filter button.

[ACM]

Hi! Digitl4u

I sort of disagree on most things that you state in your post. That said we are all entitled to our views. You have shared yours, I would like to share mine on those same points. I may have misunderstood your point in some cases and I apologize in advance if that may be the case.

Originally Posted by digital4u

When I as a human being look at the success of the brands that you have mentioned i.e LG, BMW, I ask myself how they made it. Was it sheer luck? No ji, it’s the willingness to put it all on the floor and risk everything following a dream. Many decades ago BMW was a small company but stood out over the years for its racing heritage not off-road prowess - I believe Paris -Dakar test runs should be conducted in Mumbai. I was in Mumbai last month and it took my poor Uber driver over 1.5 hours to cover a small stretch of 14km and that’s not cause of the traffic per se but rather the constant potholes(mini wells) all over the road. I felt so sorry for the Uber driver that I ended up tipping him double the fare. And guess what, for the next three days of my visit to Mumbai, it was just the same mundane routine.

You mentioned about BMW and LG and their legacy of history etc. Well LG actually refunded 100% of the cost of their premium washing machine. Of course it too a 4 month fight with them to get them to do it. They were quite bad in their attitude, actually worse then what I even expect BMW to ever be.

The LG Washer case history is shared in part below from another of my posts: This would be Out of topic on this thread, but is just to show how even a major brand can cheat and act in really bad taste.

LG looses and is forced to refund 100% of the cost of it's poorly designed Washing machine:
LG swindles loyal customer with pathetic service. LG Employees complicit in planned cheating. Refurbished 100% dryer Inverter based Washing Machine sold as new for Rs. 50,000 plus. No service in spite of 5 yrs AMC. Machine required service every 6 months. In 3 yrs Motor & Water pump failure. Hot Air pathway rusted with big hole in 6 mths and Drum developed a hole leaving it irreparable; no spares. After 45 days and hundreds of calls and messages Regional Service Head Vinod GR & Sonali Karenjekar agreed to 100% refund of machine and prorate for AMC. Collected original documents and promised Cheque in 10 days. Been further 2 mths, they don't even lift calls. I have call and sms recordings. Never buy LG.
#LG, #LGWashingMachine, #LGservice, #LGIndia

Facts:
I have saved, WhatsApp, SMS, Email and Recorded voice call conversations to back all that I mention below:

Bought LG’s Top End “Washer Cum 100% Dryer” Inverter Machine “F1496ADP24” with 2 yrs Standard warranty and 10 years Motor Warranty on 20/01/2015. Yes there are such high end single unit machines and I took a bet on LG since I have been buying multiple LG devices ranging from Flat Screen TV’s, to Washing Machines to Home Theatre Systems to their Flagship Phones.

The Machine had a MRP in excess of Rs. 51,000 and I bought it under a sale for Rs.41,000. I got a Rs. 500 discount for exchange of my 12 yrs old working Samsung Top Load Automatic machine - A machine that developed no faults in 12 yrs and was replaced by me just to go in for newer and better 100% drying technology. The LG machine was used daily for washing just 2 persons clothes.

6 months later the Machine developed a fault that stopped the 100% Drying aspect and left clothes damp. The fault was identified to be a rusted component in the Hot air pathway system which resulted in a 1 Inch Diameter hole. This is a metal component and major rusting just 6 months on made me think that they may have sold me a refurbished machine. This component was replaced and did not rust a bit even 2.5 yrs later and that raises a question about how this could happen in the first 6 months unless it was a refurbished model sold as a new unit.

About 15 months on I had to again ask for the machine to be serviced since the design is such that lint gets accumulated in the air exit pathways and it is not something that a user can clean up. This is a design flaw that requires one to call service engineer every 6-12 months.

About 21 months on the “10 yrs warranty motor” failed (again raising doubts about the machine being new). This was replaced under warranty and forced me to buy further 3 years extended warranty and AMC to make the total warranty period 5 years. I had never bought a washing machine that failed so many times in the first couple of years, and this is quite unheard of in modern times.

The AMC bought for Rs. 9282 again under discount was taken on 17/11/2017 and is valid for 5 years from the purchase of the machine.

About 34 months from the purchase of the machine it again failed and this time the technician identified water pump failure (Was it a refurbished machine). But he asked me to continue using the machine.

Around 20/01/2018 When the technician came to replace the water pump he informed me that the Plastic Tub that is outside the metal Tub has a big hole in it. (Again raising the refurbished machine question).

I then again strongly raised the issue of major issues with the washing machine in a very short life span. I asked LG to replace the machine or give me a full refund. They maintained that they would repair the machine.

I asked for a replacement machine in the meanwhile till they repair the machine. I was told they would send me a temporary top loading automatic machine. I was instead sent a semi automatic machine - something which I have not used in the last 35 years. I was forced to ask them to take it back. Do bear in mind that here we are talking about a defect in a machine that does not require even hanging out to dry and assures us of 100% drying facility and they did not have the courtesy to send even a normal automatic machine which even the technician who visited mentioned to me is normally done.

In the meanwhile I was informed that the machine cannot be repaired at all and the part is not available. They offered to pay me depreciated value. I told them that machines are bought with a lifetime of minimum of 10 years in mind, even they offer 10 years warranty on the motor.

I literally had to call the call centre 100+ times and go through the same conversation multiple times, escalate the issue multiple times.

Finally they agreed to Refund the Machine cost 100% including the AMC. Voice calls and sms records would confirm this. A woman by the name of Sonali Karenjekar handled this conversation.

However when the technician / person came to get documents signed they backed out and agreed to only give prorated value for the AMC component. This followed another round of discussions with her boss Vinod GR and they agreed to refund Rs. 5600 for the AMC and 40500 for the Machine. (Refusing to refund me for the machine that they took in exchange when the machine was bought.) This again is recorded on Voice Call and SMS. They insisted that Original Invoices need to be submitted and the cheques would be received by me within 10 day at most.

I was forced to agree to avoid the inconvenience and effort involved in going to the consumer court and they collected my original Washing Machine Invoice, my AMC / Extended Warranty Invoice and a cancelled cheque. But this it seems was only a ruse to get me to surrender the original documents. (I however have signatures of the person collecting the documents “Ramesh” on copies of the invoices.).

I have been following up since almost 2 months since collection of the documents with Vinod GR the person who was mentioned to me to be a senior regional head of service and who could take a call. He was the person who along with his colleague Sonali Karanjekar (who first informed me of 100% refund and then later backed out).

The last communication from Vinod was that “In a meeting for your case there is slight calculation changes Because of which cheque is getting delayed, pl wait I will call back by 5 pm and confirm by when you willl be getting the cheque” This was on 11/04/2018 post which he has again never reverted.

Frankly even if LG management asked them to mislead a customer the way they have done how could Vinod GR and Sonali Karanjekar behave in such a manner. Is telling management that what they are doing is morally wrong and not being a part of it a part of the job?

On 24/04/2018 after the threat of going on Social media I was approached by but he too attempted to convince me that full refund is not possible though they had agreed to it earlier. He was to get back to me within 24 hrs and asked me to hold off going on Social media but has not yet reverted.

I have been forced to use a maid service to wash clothes since 3 months and of course pay extra for that. I finally bought a Bosch/ Siemens 100% drying washing machine that meets my expectations and exceeds LG specifications.

I invite consumer activists to join me in suing LG in consumer courts with a significant penalty as a lesson to them. After covering the cost of machine and legal fees, I offer to donate the entire further penalty amount to an approved NGO of my choice.

I used to be an avid advocate of LG but frankly all have been very poor experiences. The other LG Washing machine at my parents place stopped working due to PCB issue in 1 year and was repaired after a lot of follow ups. The home theatre stopped working in 13th month and was not repairable at all. The phone G4 needed screen and PCB replacement in warranty in 6 months and is in its 4th battery in 3rd year. No more LG for me. In fact am sure people who know me well will all also avoid the brand. This is not how you earn a positive reputation. In fact it comes across as a company of crooks at least in India.

#LG, #LGIndia, #LGWashingMachines, #LGservice

The chapter was closed with a 100% refund and with the worlds having available online access to the LG service experience.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep I have lived all my life in Bombay (I still call it by it's previous name.). But I too have travelled the world and India and have driven in other cities as well. Bombay actually is not that bad, (especially when it is not the monsoon) and one rarely is stuck in a situation where one is forced to drive on poor roads all the time. That said I myself spent about 7 hrs driving from Thane to CBD Belapur twice in one day last week. The first trip took me 5 hours and the second one took me just 2 hrs. (Return trip timings for 100ks journey each). So it all depends on the time of the day. Potholes are present and I have working with the local corporator got those in my locality repaired. But of course there is corruption where ever any thing to do with the government is involved.

Am right now also fighting a battle at the Dy. Registrar of Co-Operative Societies, in a matter where I can settle for as little as Rs.100,000 but instead have chosen to loose Rs. 150,000 per month rather than pay a bribe of Rs. 100,000 to society members. Yes one looses money in every personal fight one carries out, and one has to be ok with that. Just as one has to be ok with insisting on a bill and paying the fine when one invariably breaks traffic rules rather than bribing the officer.

Coming back to the main topic of BMW and other cars.

1) I have not been stating that BMW's in general are poorly designed or unreliable vehicles. Recently a friend asked for my opinion on buying a preowned 530d co-incidentally also serviced at he same Infinity Motors service centre, and I have given him a go ahead, but there are questions on the right price and the car has been in an accident and it needs to be checked out if the vehicle is going to be reliable.


2) I strongly disagree that second vehicles need to be kept in hand or for driving over rough roads. If so what is the so called "Rough road package"? Why do the BMW Xdrive advertisements (on tatasky) show the vehicles being driven on really rough paths (can't even call them roads) and that too at high speed, blowing dust all around?


3) Why does BMW hold off road/ rough road experience programs if their vehicles cannot handle Bombay roads?


4) My biggest issue has not been just the failure of major parts from about 90,000 kms but their not sharing the history of why this failures happened, and then taking too long to even diagnose the faults and the longer to source parts (this may be understood partially), but again too long to install the parts.

5) Why should a replaced / repaired part gain fail in a few months? This indicates some thing more that is hidden. The new part is not 5 yrs old, it is failing in just months.

6) Nope doing their job or replacing parts in warranty. (A warranty I paid for not the first owner) is like giving credit for delivering a part of what one has been charged for. At the time of selling me the warranty, BMW has not communicated that they would keep the car with them for 25% of the time and that they would have to keep repairing the same stuff again and again and would not even find a solution to repair some of the stuff.

Also frankly even 5% downtime would not be acceptable in say the US for BMW. People sell of their cars or sue the company for that type of failure rate and there is always the option of a standby vehicle.

JK is more focused on initial quality in the first 6 months and on initial sales satisfaction survey with the customers. This is not too relevant. If a cheaper Toyota can give one reliability then the BMW definitely should be able to give one the same. It would be fool hardy to buy a comfortable BMW and keep it for the special occasion only for show and use the bouncy Toyota when the roads are bad.

Lastly there are may wrongs in the world, I do my bit to right a few of them, others do their bits for righting a few others. It is not my job or wish to right "everything" in the worlds by myself. They are many who are fighting the potholes of Bombay a noted name in this is the Radio Jockey "Malishka" most people in Bombay know of here effort towards this, last year and this year, and nothing I do can match it, so there is no point in my getting into a battle which many others are already fighting. That is no reason I should not target matters that others ignore.

[lurker]

Scotty Kilmer says BMW's these days are made of plastic and should be avoided like plague. If you read up a bit on manufacturing practices worldwide you will note that while BMW adds more electronic gizmos to make their cars stand out amongst competition, and to compensate for cost increase in adding these electronics they use more components made out of plastic and they are also guilty of making entire engine cooling subsystems out of plastic and this plastic cooling hose, radiator housing, plastic radiator coupling will give up without warning. Plastics was incorporated heavily into BMW engines as a cost saving measure. These are the plastic parts in modern BMW's and no they are not robust and are like ticking time bombs and can fail any time.

1. Plastic Water Pumps

2. Plastic Radiator Expansion tank

3. Plastic Electronic thermostat

4. Plastic Radiator top hose with plastic coupling

5. Plastic Radiator fan shroud

6.Plastic thermostat housing

7. Molded plastic intake manifold

8. In some models Plastic oil pans.

9. Timing chain guide plastics distintegrating due to poor quality.

Then there are BMW unethical pratices in manufacturing critical parts.

1. No drain plug in differential claiming 'lifetime' validity

2. Proprietory nature of BMW components which need proprietory tools or diagnostics for changing even single light bulb.

3. Merging small replaceable parts with bigger and more expensive parts.

Then there are general BMW wear & tear issues which can be as follows:

1. Connecting rod bearing failure (manufacturing with poor quality economical materials)

2. Variable cam timing failure

3. Crankcase ventilation failure

4. Crank hub failure

5. Valve guide seal failure (7 series)

Solutions:

Some BMW car owners in Europe have resorted to preventive maintenance changing of all radiator plastic parts and plastic cooling components, with aftermarket aluminium ones which will last longer. They believe they may rectify BMW ill effects of manufacturing to a cost and using plastic. Wherever better after market, more reliable components are found, esp mechanical parts using them in advance can prevent cascading effects of poor materials later.

Only in electronics components it is unsafe to rely on aftermarket suppliers and OEM is preferred. Through these jugaad BMW may be made more fail proof after initial 5 years.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by lurker

Scotty Kilmer says BMW's these days are made of plastic and should be avoided like plague. If you read up a bit on manufacturing practices worldwide you will note that while BMW adds more electronic gizmos to make their cars stand out amongst competition, and to compensate for cost increase in adding these electronics they use more components made out of plastic and they are also guilty of making entire engine cooling subsystems out of plastic and this plastic cooling hose, radiator housing, plastic radiator coupling will give up without warning. Plastics was incorporated heavily into BMW engines as a cost saving measure. These are the plastic parts in modern BMW's and no they are not robust and are like ticking time bombs and can fail any time.

A quick google search on this chap showed the following -
https://jalopnik.com/this-emmy-award...shi-1696524549

Anyway, out of some of the things you have listed, items like radiator shrouds and coolant tanks come in plastic in most cars. Many of the other items too. I wonder what the big deal is.

Also I don't find any aluminium replacements for any modern BMWs, only for cars like the E36 and E46.

Some more details would be nice.

[digital4u]

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support: Please do NOT post in a rude / personally-attacking / sarcastic manner on Team-BHP.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by Akshay1234

A quick google search on this chap showed the following -
https://jalopnik.com/this-emmy-award...shi-1696524549

Anyway, out of some of the things you have listed, items like radiator shrouds and coolant tanks come in plastic in most cars. Many of the other items too. I wonder what the big deal is.

Also I don't find any aluminium replacements for any modern BMWs, only for cars like the E36 and E46.

Some more details would be nice.

It is funny thing that you should quote freddy hernandez on Scotty Kilmer, I am a long time subscriber to both and one thing they both agree on is that BMW's are crap. Where they basically disagree is that Scotty Kilmer says mercedes are crap as well but freddy hernandez has a soft spot for big engined merc sportscars & coupe.

Freddy Hernandez: Why BMWs are gigantic pieces of shit.

https://jalopnik.com/bmw-engines-are...hit-1784684330

Since you consider him to be the final word on scotty kilmer, I wonder what you would say about this.

Regarding plastic parts examples, to cite an instance. The BMW water pump impeller was made out of plastic in certain models. OEM and bmw OE would provide plastic impeller water pumps which would fail all of a sudden. So certain aftermarket component manufacturers of BMW parts came up with metal impeller water pumps. Many users in Europe switched to these metal water pumps so BMW started introducing metal water pumps in some models where water pump failure was a frequent issue. In some .models they continue using plastic water pumps.

So basically as a BMW customer you are a guinea pig for their experiments with plastics. If you want to still patronise them and buy their products which can give driving pleasure when all parts work well, then that is your choice. But do not say these plastic beauties are dependable or have absolutely no issues and the only issues are in the jaundiced, prejudiced eyes of the bystander.