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Old 19th May 2018, 16:16   #1
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Default BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Will be concise and to the point:

Key Facts:
Bought Car on: 1-10-2016
Kms on Purchase: 94,500
Kms while posting: 128,000 (Approx)
Bought From BMW Infinity Motors.
Warranty till Nov 2018 / 200,000kms (Bought by me by paying extra)
The Car looked really good, the interiors were like brand new and everything worked. The Engine and Gearbox both had been replaced for unspecified reasons at about 90,000 kms and the adaptive damper suspension too was renewed fully at that time.
Brake pads were almost new.
BMW provided 2 new tyres and I bought 2 new tyres right at the start. So all tyres, brakes, suspension, engine and gearbox seemed new.

Am currently forced to mainly use my Ford EcoSport AT as it is more reliable though it is of the same age in terms of years.

GTO had suggested a new Endeavour 3.2 Titanium - I rarely follow correct advice.

25% time in the service centre:
  • It has been with me for about 20 months and has spent well more than 5 months of this time in the service centre.
  • I was given a loaner X1 on two occasions it covered about 15 days.

Dates and number of days when at the service centre:
1-10-2016 to 15-11-2016 - 45 Days at Service Centre
30-11-2016 to 6-12-2016 - 7 Days at Service Centre
15-12-2016 to 22-12-2016 - 8 Days at Service Centre
03-01-2017 to 04-01-2017 - 2 Days at Service Centre
10-04-2017-11-04-2017 - 2 Days at Service Centre
15-04-2017-15-04-2017 - 1 Day at Service Centre
07-05-2017 to 07-05-2017 - 1 Day at Service Centre
05-07-2017 to 11-07-2017 - 7 Days at Service Centre
02-09-2017 to 19-09-2017 - 17 Days at Service Centre
29-11-2017 to 30-11-2017 - 2 Days at Service Centre
25-12-2017 to 14-01-2018 - 21 Days at Service Centre
15-01-2018 to 19-01-2018 - 4 Days at Service Centre
07-06-2018 to 23-07-2018 - 40 Days at Service Centre. With a few days with me in between.
  • 1.8 yrs - 34,000 kms Approx
  • Approx 155+ Days - 5+ Months at Service Centre. Some days are rounded off.
  • This period excludes days when the car was with me as the service centre did not have a part in stock. The car though was not usable or a pain to use due to some defect like say the automatic rain sensor not working in the rains, since last monsoon. They then gave me back the car with a sensor reset just before the rains ended so I was not able to check it till this years monsoon when I just could not bear using the wiper in high speed or off all the time.

BMW is known for reliability and excellent service. But after completing 27,000 kms in first 10 months, I have been forced to slow down to just 7,000 kms in last 10 months.

Issue raised to BMW via Infinity Motors:
  • I told them that while the service centre has been very courteous and supportive the repair related delays have taken too long and the product has not been reliable enough.
  • I told them that I am a Distinguished BHPian at TeamBHP as a statement to the fact that I understand cars quite well and that I would post the resolution on the forum and that I understand social media quite well.
  • I informed them of one of my earlier cars the Tata Aria being at the service centre for just (relative to 25% for the BMW) 10% of the time and that TATA were fair and honourable enough to give me a 100% refund and take back my vehicle after realizing their fault. (Of course there are more details to that which I would not like to share.)
  • That LG recently gave me a 100% refund for multiple failures of their top of the line washing machine costing 50K plus. Of course I had to fight a fair bit with them and go to the social media.

They finally gave me a final verbal response today after about a month that they: (They would be giving a written letter which would obviously not state in as many words the following
  • BMW cannot do any thing about the car and my experience. I had asked that they either refund 100% of my car purchase value back to me or provide me a significantly extended warranty ++. They are negative on both aspects. Essentially they are washing their hands of the vehicle and waiting for the warranty period of the car to get over in November either in their hands or mine.
  • That they have been repairing the car within warranty since the time I bought it. That though I bought it from a BMW dealer under warranty how the car was maintained before that is not their responsibility. (I did inform them that I was told the car is in good condition and that it had Not met with a major accident.) They stated that the Engine, Gearbox, and Suspension had not failed. Though in reality the Engine Coolant leakage, Speed sensor failure, Steering rack failure, Starter motor failure etc resulted in the car being with them for long period. Also both headlights required replacement under warranty and the front door windows (both) squeaking required 4 trips to the service centre along with other issues and is still not resolved after 11 plus days allotted to that itself.
  • 25% of the time spent at the service centre is something that is normal for a BMW of this age. But frankly even if it happens to a new car they would consider it on a case to case basis. There is no defined policy for uniform level of support.
  • That the fact that I have had to keep a spare car to use the BMW is not their concern.

At my residence, presently I am the only one who drives so having 2 cars makes absolutely no sense, but since I have a dad who is 86 yrs old and may require to visit the hospital at any time I have to ensure I have a reliable car with me all the times.

While evaluating cars I was strongly bent on the Endeavour 4x4 Titanium, my father suggested a preowned Merc or BMW as they are reliable in general. I have multiple options among various brands including BMW from outside the authorized centre with half the kms on them at about the same price but without the warranty. I selected the X3 for the Warranty, Condition, and the 30D Engine of course.

Or is it that the previous owner too found the car to have too many issues and sold it off for that reason.

PS: The Car Buying Experience It was just like how buying a premium car should be. All arrangements for pooja, Chocolates, T-Shirt, Cap, Pen, Leather Tissue Paper Dispenser etc.. The Experience with BMW financials was also very good. The Car insurance transfer experience was very Bad. You win some, you loose some.

Last edited by ACM : 1st August 2018 at 01:09.
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Old 31st July 2018, 20:49   #2
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Default If looks could kill

Posting Snaps for those who may wish to see the kind of high mileage car that I was tempted to go for while in the safety net of BMW and Authorized centre.

Not covering the number plate as I feel it does not matter.

The Journey computer shows a straight journey from Karvar (Near Goa) to Bombay a few hrs after a straight journey from Bombay to Karvar to attend a friends wedding. Yep when it has worked it has been a dream.

The Error messages are just a few examples of the kind of faults that I got, there were many more.

Yes kept the Flat bed carriers busy. RSA of my insurance to the assistance.

There was one case when the car came from the service centre after about 20 days of intense repairs and had to be towed back the same night without being driven more than 10 mtrs by me for the same fault for which I had given the car initially. Of course BMW feels that this is to be expected during warranty period as well.
Attached Thumbnails
BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0014.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0013.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0022.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0021.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0020.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0019.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0018.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0017.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0016.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-img20160913wa0015.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20160915_163740.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20161118_145439_hdr.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20161227_040722.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20170301_14473911.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20170301_1447521.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20170301_14492611.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20171218_1246011.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20171218_1255171.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20171224_145823.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20171225_124412.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20171225_124436_hdr.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20180115_153301.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20180115_153308.jpg  

BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop-thumbnail_20180312_170233.jpg  


Last edited by ACM : 31st July 2018 at 22:20.
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Old 31st July 2018, 21:57   #3
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Default Going Ahead

Am contemplating:

1) Suing BMW and Infinity Motors. (Do I want to spend any more of my time on them?)
2) Selling of the X3 and forgetting a Brand like BMW exists. (Oh! will miss scaping the X5 and X6 plans)
3) Using the X3 till end of life (the cars not mine hopefully). The vehicle seems sorted for now with some minor niggles. But that is what I had thought 6 months back and 6 months before that. I would of course service it only in a third party garage once it is out of warranty.
4) Irrespective planning to sell of my EcoSport and try using the X3 as a solo vehicle. Superbike plans should materialize later this year.

Advice to others:
1) BMW warranty and purchasing a vehicle from authorised dealers is of no use if the car spends substantial amounts of time in the service centre. The replacement of a head light takes 7 days and two separate visits of 4 and 3 days with at least 7 days of driving around blind in one eye. Yes it can protect you from a hefty bill. They need to program the headlight and can get that wrong too.
2) Changing a windshield takes them a similar 10 days plus the time to get the part between two visits.
3) You need a separate more reliable second vehicle.
4) If you want to drive your car above 100,000kms get a TATA, or a Mahindra, or a Ford.... actually let me do it the other way round...guys just don't get a BMW or a Skoda. (Yep burnt my hands on both.)
5) BMW's are not meant for Indian road conditions even if you drive as cautiously as you would a premium SUV.
6) Am aware of wonderful experiences with BMW for many owners for both new cars and like GTO for preowned ones but it can't be a lottery and machines should be predictable. What is the true point of buying a comfortable but limited life vehicle. Are we saying that a 75L vehicle would be at EOL in India at 100,000kms. What is the higher / German engineering that we are speaking about. Yes parts have a life but a speed sensor, the engine cooling systems, the glass winders, the seat mechanisms should last the life of the car.

PS:BMW Offroad Experience Drives Had a bad experience of poor planning by BMW of their Off road drive at Amby Valley as well. Drove down there before the appointed time, waited 2 hours and returned back with my friend who swears with the Mercedes brand without getting a drive as they estimated another 3 hrs (5 hrs post my given time) for our slot to arrive. Felt like a fool in front of my friend, but waiting would have been more absurd. Anyways the car is not reliable enough when driven on normal roads, the true off road ability is really questionable.

Last edited by ACM : 31st July 2018 at 22:31.
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Old 1st August 2018, 08:58   #4
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Tech Section. Thanks for sharing!

Sorry to hear about the experience, ACM. Although I'm a big pre-owned car fan, I never recommend getting any car with over 40,000 km on the odo. Buying a complex European with 1 lakh km is just asking for trouble man. Now, I don't mind owning a European with 1 lakh km if those 1 lakh km were mine (i.e. my careful upkeep & maintenance), but I'd never buy someone else's 1 lakh km car.

I also believe that today's European luxury cars are too complex and not 'built to last' at all. Max life of 10 years or 100,000 km (whichever is earlier), after which the time & money they require is exorbitant and in many cases, worth more than the car itself. Just see the number of abandoned 8 to 10 year old luxury cars in this thread.

Hope your matter is resolved soon.
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Old 1st August 2018, 09:13   #5
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Tech Section. Thanks for sharing!

Sorry to hear about the experience, ACM. Although I'm a big pre-owned car fan, I never recommend getting any car with over 40,000 km on the odo. Buying a complex European with 1 lakh km is just asking for trouble man. Now, I don't mind owning a European with 1 lakh km if those 1 lakh km were mine (i.e. my careful upkeep & maintenance), but I'd never buy someone else's 1 lakh km car.

I also believe that today's European luxury cars are too complex and not 'built to last' at all. Max life of 10 years.
The problem for me is that I do about 30k kms a year. At least 25K kms on a single car.

The experience on a 29k old Pre owned Laura too didn't work.

For the X3, the new engine, gearbox, Suspension and 2 yrs warranty tempted me, but the time at service centre is quite absurd.
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Old 1st August 2018, 09:19   #6
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Sorry to hear the troubles you faced, ACM. I agree with GTO. It doesn't make sense to buy a BMW with 1L kms on odo even if it comes with extended warranty.

One question: what was the reason of spending 45 days at service centre right from the day of purchase? That is the longest time spent at service centre as per your list.

My experience with the brand has been excellent so far. No major reliability issue in last 4-5 years. However, haven't clocked that many kms on a single car to comment on the long term reliability.
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Old 1st August 2018, 10:05   #7
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
Sorry to hear the troubles you faced, ACM. I agree with GTO. It doesn't make sense to buy a BMW with 1L kms.

One question: what was the reason of spending 45 days at service centre right from the day of purchase? That is the longest time spent at service centre as per your list.
Coolant leakage. I had to return the car back to them just a week after taking delivery. They were waiting for parts and the car couldn't be driven so it was with them. There were other issues as well that I don't recollect off hand.

They did what they call a 360 degree check-up immediately on sale. This takes them about 2 days with the car connected to a computer. They have done this check-up a couple of times even later. Evidently it is meaningless they never found any faults with this procedure and the car did have issues pop-up quite soon after each of these check ups.

Few days back they did the same check-up and they did not discover the headlight washer not working. When I reported the issue the they pulled out the washers manually and it started working so no repairs were carried out.

Frankly with these kind of process mandated by BMW it is a wonder that more cars don't suffer similarly.

I feel if the realistic life of a BMW is 1L kms then they should buy back and scrap the cars at 1L kms and not sell to new customers with a warranty.

Also in the western world BMW would without fail provide a standby vehicle while car is repaired under warranty. Why a different standard in India? Do we pay less for vehicles? It is just that customers don't demand the same level of service.

Last edited by ACM : 1st August 2018 at 10:11.
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Old 1st August 2018, 10:49   #8
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Also in the western world BMW would without fail provide a standby vehicle while car is repaired under warranty. Why a different standard in India? Do we pay less for vehicles? It is just that customers don't demand the same level of service.
I am surprised you were not given a loaner car, even Renault gave me a loaner car when my Duster was under warranty and had to spend 20 days in the service center.
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Old 1st August 2018, 11:06   #9
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

I was also not shared an email address or a direct point of contact with BMW.

I had to route my communication through Infinty motors and later was told to call on BMW landline and ask for a person named George who would in turn check with just the Regional head.

If anyone has a direct point of contact with someone senior at BMW do let me know either on this thread or online.

Email to the BMW customer service email id was not responded to.

Other Car Brands in India can learn on how to drop customer satisfaction through BMW practices. Save some money at the cost of customer.

Last edited by ACM : 1st August 2018 at 11:08.
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Old 1st August 2018, 11:13   #10
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Did you find out why the engine and gearbox were changed? Seems like a major fault that caused these to malfunction or get damaged before the car was sold off the first time.
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Old 1st August 2018, 11:44   #11
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Hi,
Felt so sad and angry reading your post. But this is the reality of the so called German LUXURY brands.
From what little experience I have with VW vento ( 2 cars since launch in India), I think that the replaced Engine and Gearbox should have been enough to stay away from the car. I also think they are the root cause of your problems with coding of headlights etc as you never know what all conflicts are arising in ECM.
All the best in your fight with BMW.
And respect for your capabilities to take big companies to task as is obvious from the fact that you managed to return a car and a washing machine for refund.
regards
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Old 1st August 2018, 11:52   #12
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Hi, could you tell the date of manufacture/assembly of this car. I am wondering if this could be one of the flood damaged cars in December 2015 in Chennai. I heard that quite a few BMWs got flooded in their assembly line in Maraimalai Nagar plant and all of them were stripped, reassembled and sold. I am not sure if this is 100% true. I am just guessing if this could be the reason that you are facing so much of problems with your car.
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Old 1st August 2018, 12:00   #13
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Sorry to see your plight, the best solution I can see is let it go off when it is under warranty. I would like to share few stories:
1. I was scouting for replacement for Vento back in 2016 and many suggested X1,GLA, Q3 or a used X3/Q5. While the deals were tempting, we opted for Endeavour. Come again 2017, I was scouting to replace Ecosport and was closely watching pre-owned 3 series,Q3 but went ahead and bought Crysta. While the cars I bought are not as exciting, I am happy that they can go longer with just scheduled service visits.
2. When we bought Endeavour, a not so close friend bought used X1 and he was all out in praising BMW and how much better car it is. I see him driving a brand new Crysta now and doesnot talk about used bimmer.
3. Another friend of mine who runs body shop and garage bought a 2012 X3 which had run 60K and was without warranty. His visits to Dubai has increased ever since, just to procure parts at a cheaper price.

I have made myself these rules:
1. If buying a German, it has to be new.
2. If buying BMW/Audi/Merc it has to be atleast Q5/GLE/X5. I don't want a cramped car just because, it drives like a dream.
3. There will be rare examples of low mileage/ extremely well kept used cars, but scouting for one needs lot of time,patience and they also carry hefty premium.

When buying Crysta, a close friend pestered me-why not buy a used German? Well I told, "I am a family man and cannot afford to maintain a girlfriend" .
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Old 1st August 2018, 12:45   #14
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjiRoss View Post
Did you find out why the engine and gearbox were changed? Seems like a major fault that caused these to malfunction or get damaged before the car was sold off the first time.
BMW X3, X5 ZF gearbox has been reported to develop issues after about 75,000kms in worldwide forums. The gearbox itself is about 9L. So I was cautious about it. Another X5 that I saw and even paid advance for too had gearbox replaced. So in this case I was happy to find the gearbox replaced and it was less than 5k kms old when I bought it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risham View Post
Hi,
Felt so sad and angry reading your post. But this is the reality of the so called German LUXURY brands.
From what little experience I have with VW vento ( 2 cars since launch in India), I think that the replaced Engine and Gearbox should have been enough to stay away from the car.
All the best in your fight with BMW.
And respect for your capabilities to take big companies to task as is obvious from the fact that you managed to return a car and a washing machine for refund.
Thanks, As mentioned above the gearbox and engine replacement was the only grounds under which I could consider a vehicle of this age. Frankly considering the cost of these items and adaptive suspension etc. It is odd that BMW decided to spend so much on renewing the car rather than writting it off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.ashoka View Post
Hi, could you tell the date of manufacture/assembly of this car. I am wondering if this could be one of the flood damaged cars in December 2015 in Chennai. I heard that quite a few BMWs got flooded in their assembly line. I am just guessing if this could be the reason that you are facing so much of problems with your car.
The car was manufactured in 2011 and registered in 2012 mid. It was in Bombay all it's life and manufactured and sold much before the chennai incident. So the Chennai angle seems unlikely.

Last edited by ACM : 1st August 2018 at 12:49.
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Old 1st August 2018, 13:10   #15
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Default Re: BMW X3 (F25) at 130,000 km - Spends 25% of its time in the workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
For the X3, the new engine, gearbox, Suspension and 2 yrs warranty tempted me, but the time at service centre is quite absurd.
Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issues with your car. So many replacements are a sign something went badly wrong with the car and no matter what a factory fit is a factory fit. A fix of this size at a dealership is bound to become problematic.

I think your best bet is to get rid of the car when possible, long wait times at the dealership is unfortunately just the reality with these Germans and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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