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Old 24th September 2018, 13:07   #1
GTO
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Default Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Thanks to Abhinav Gupta for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Quote:
Hi GTO,

Greetings for the day!

Would like to bring to your notice that the Spiral Cable supplied in Toyota cars is of inferior quality, and usually stops working within 2-3 years. I myself have got the spiral cable changed twice within 6 years.

The Spiral Cable is a very critical component as the functioning of the airbag is dependent on it. While working in American Express, I have seen that most of the cabs have the airbag light lit up due to the spiral cable not working.

The spiral cable is insanely priced and the price doesn't justify the quality at all.

Link to pricing - http://www.toyotapartsconnect.in/par...0D49A151608B09

As the spiral cable is quite expensive in the Toyota showroom, I get it procured from China where it costs merely $15.

Request you to please create a thread on this so that Toyota India becomes aware of the issue and either reduces the price of its spiral cable, or increases the quality.

Regards,

Abhinav Gupta
I did some digging and found the following posts, so there is definitely merit to Abhinav's complaint. Further, all the complaints I found are specific to their Asian cars, and not those sold in USA (e.g. Corolla, Camry).

Fortuner:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Changed spiral cable (horn wasn't working), brake pads and discs. Robbery to charge so much for the cable replacement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
Another information I found from a statement by Toyota Philippines when they recalled their vehicles, including Fortuners for replacing some spiral cable retainers connected to airbags matches and makes more sense to the events of these accidents.

This could also be the cause for failure of airbags deploying in the Fortuners in India and if it is, then Toyota India is deliberately hiding it from their customers.
Etios / Liva:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Airbag Spiral cable might have to be replaced ( Costs around 10k for the Innovas, not sure about the cost for Etios. Will share when I get it. ) So, in case the airbag spiral cables are damaged for a vehicle fitted with additional horn, Toyota won't respect the warranty.

Symptoms of failure

Either
Airbag indicator glows up on dash.
or
Horn stops working.
You won't end up in a situation where you do not know that the airbag is not going to work if an accident happens. So, in that respect, it's good. I was afraid of this when I first saw this post.
Innova:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
Noticed a few days back that the SRS airbag warning on my Innova was not switching off while the engine was running. Took it to Radha Krishna Toyota who diagnosed it as a faulty spiral cable sub-assembly (same problem as Genesis' Innova). Took them about an hour and a half to replace it. This unit is installed in the steering wheel hub, under the air-bag. Cost was Rs.8500 plus taxes. For information the part no. is 84306-0K021 and it's picture is attached.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papaboost View Post
I got a call from Nandi Totota last evening with the message that Toyota has initiated a recall and free replacement of the Spiral Cable in the Innova's manufactured between 2006-2008. I was asked to bring my vehicle in for a free check & replacement. Any comments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek3001 View Post
Even I've read about that recall on the internet,probably here on t-bhp,but no word about it from our dealer though.
A couple of years back our 2006 Innova 'V' had developed the same issue and we too had to get that spiral cable replaced.If I am not mistaken it had costed us about 4-6k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirashub View Post
My 2005 Innova 2.5V showed this problem in Jan 2013 (approx 80,000km on the odo). I was told that driving with the air bag light illuminated was not a good idea as the air bag would probably not work in the event of an accident. I also was cautioned that the air bag may inflate suddenly without warning while driving, possibly leading to a hazardous situation or even an accident.

Took the car to DSK Toyota, Pune and had the spiral cable replaced - the job took just 20 minutes and I was back on the road, poorer by Rs 9814 (including taxes).

In Apr 2014, after the recall was announced, I applied for a refund on the grounds that Toyota had recalled these vehicles due to manufacturing/ design defect. I also submitted the original cash invoice (which I had retained). After a patient wait of about 4 months (without reminders) Toyota refunded the entire amount.

Thank you Toyota - that's what I call service.
Beware if your Fortuner's horn stops working:
Quote:
Originally Posted by interc00led View Post
Replace the clock-spring which is located under the steering. The clock spring ribbon is broken and is making contact only when the steering is turned in either direction.
Toyota calls this part as spiral cable.
http://www.toyotapartsconnect.in/par...0D49A151608B09
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice View Post
So, I took it to Myles, the FNG on the Hennur Road. Mr. Mathews was very helpful and identified the problem as the Spiral Cable assembly. He scanned the ECU to ensure that the issue wasn't an indication of a larger problem, and then narrowed it down to this.

The cable cost me a pretty penny - nearly 15K to be exact. This, plus taxes, scanning charges, and his labour, took the bill to Rs.20k. But at least the issue's solved, and it's been done expeditiously.

Thanks to one and all here who advised me on the fix.

Last edited by GTO : 24th September 2018 at 13:08.
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Old 24th September 2018, 13:22   #2
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I did some digging and found the following posts, so there is definitely merit to Abhinav's complaint. Further, all the complaints I found are specific to their Asian cars, and not those sold in USA (e.g. Corolla, Camry).
Thanks for creating a post on this. I had done some research that time, the Fortuner's cable was shared with Hilux, and there were some recalls in other countries (Hilux and other models). Toyota India denied that there was any issue, even after follow ups. So I was forced to pay and change. Didn't like the attitude of 'if we can get away with it we will try'.

http://media.toyota.ca/releases/toyo...cable-assembly

https://www.topgear.com.ph/news/indu...y-spiral-cable

http://www.toyotahawaii.com/Spiral-C...ssembly-Recall

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/I...d-largest-ever
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Old 24th September 2018, 14:01   #3
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

How is this different than Takata related recall? I am aware that prior to recall, many Indian owners had to pay for replacement, but even now?
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Old 24th September 2018, 14:18   #4
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

God! Talk about daylight robbery, charging 10~15k for a part that costs roughly under 1k.

Reminds me of the time when I had to pay 100/- for a MC cap screw from Honda as the part was an import from Japan, the same part could be sourced for under 10/- when procured from indigenous manufacturers.
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Old 24th September 2018, 14:38   #5
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

I suffered the same problem but this was due to my incompetence as described over here (Beauty of the Beast Skoda Octavia RS - 57000 km review). The part barely cost me 5-6 pounds if I am correct.
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Old 24th September 2018, 15:07   #6
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Toyota India have turned their back to this serious safety issue without any concern about the safety of their customers. If I'm not mistaken, all the Toyota cars in India are affected due to the use of this spiral cable throughout their lineup (maybe except Yaris).

I don't care about the price of the cable, but the cable itself. They are very well aware about the sub standard quality of the cable and its failures. Yet they continue to sell this defective cables again and again. I wonder how this one passed Toyota's QDR standards!

Many Fortuner owners have reported in our forum about airbags not deploying during a frontal crash. Most probably this spiral cable is the culprit while Toyota blames the driver for not hitting on the sweet spot for the airbags to deploy.

Toyota India should announce a recall to change these faulty cables in all the affected cars free of cost, rather than charging exorbitant price for a cheap cable. This was done by Toyota in other countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I did some digging and found the following posts, so there is definitely merit to Abhinav's complaint.
Thanks for opening this thread GTO. At least the Toyota car owners who read this thread will be aware of the potential danger their car possess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukiwa View Post
How is this different than Takata related recall?
The problem with Takata airbags was that their inflators were defective. Its inflators can explode with too much force and hurl shrapnel.

Here these cheap spiral cables gets damaged by turning of steering wheels and cause some connectivity loss related to the air bag system.

Last edited by Flyer : 24th September 2018 at 15:12.
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Old 24th September 2018, 15:14   #7
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Its the same with so many other parts. One of the door switches for the courtesy lights on my Innova went kaput. Toyota dealer quoted Rs.2100 for the switch.
Got it on AliExpress for Rs.550 including shipping!
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:28   #8
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

While I've never had issues with the spiral cable (touch wood) in 2 cars I can't but help wonder if TKM are on a cheap-out mission & using lower quality parts off late.

As for the exorbitant price(s) that's par for the course I think. You really don't want to know what my car's HID headlamp assembly costs. Scary!

Get the part # from Boodmo and buy one overseas if possible. This is not a DIY and will require a skilled FNG technician to replace it primarily because of the airbag
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Old 24th September 2018, 18:48   #9
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
The problem with Takata airbags was that their inflators were defective. Its inflators can explode with too much force and hurl shrapnel.
I checked my older post about Takata recall, part number that was replaced by TKM matches part number mentioned in link given by Abhinav Gupta.
So, in Innova's case, I guess it's same part that was part of Takata recall.

My post from 2014 (Toyota to recall 45,000 Innovas (April 2014))
Link to part mentioned in 1st post: TKM part

Both have same part number as '04004-07122'.
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Old 24th September 2018, 19:03   #10
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Even Mitsubishi was suffering from the very same clockspring issue. There are quite a few cars I'm aware of that required a clockspring replacement.

I guess it is the same poor quality part made by Takata in both cases.
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Old 24th September 2018, 19:09   #11
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

What is preventing Toyota from issuing a formal recall advisory? Too many vehicles?

Just this afternoon, a team leader working in the quality control department of their plant (an ex student) was telling me how stringent their QC is and how the higher ups get involved and go to the extent of pausing the production line itself if/when a fault is detected.

And that very often, dealers fail to escalate faults to the company until they find a consistent pattern and that is why, at times, Toyota remains unaware of the problems for long. Could this be such a case?

Whatever the reason, it is criminal of the company to play ostrich instead of pro actively addressing the issue. An airbag which doesn't open at the right time or one that does at a wrong time is a potential killer.

Just for the sake of clarity:

Toyota Spiral Cable = Clockspring present in the steering assembly of all cars . Also known as coil assembly, clock spring coil, cable reel assembly, contact reel, and coil spring unit.

Source

Last edited by dailydriver : 24th September 2018 at 19:19.
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Old 24th September 2018, 21:13   #12
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

I had the spiral cable replaced in my Innova around 6 years back. It was 8400 + taxes then. Interestingly, a few years later, they said there was a recall in some models but they refused to reimburse me. By the way this was the largest cost item that was ever replaced or repaired in my 10 plus year old Innova.
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Old 24th September 2018, 21:33   #13
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Thatís quite a shocker. Our Petrol innova had this issue of Horn which wonít work when the steering is straight, it does work when itís turned. Dealership gave an estimate of 15-20 K, I will try to find. Somehow it didnít appealed to me and due to the low usage it got postponed.

So, any link to purchase the substitute wire or should I ask for replacement under recall?
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Old 26th September 2018, 04:10   #14
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
Too many vehicles?
extent of pausing the production line itself if/when a fault is detected.
And that very often, dealers fail to escalate faults to the company until they find a consistent pattern and that is why, at times, Toyota remains unaware of the problems for long. Could this be such a case?
is a potential killer.
I own an 08 Innova V, for which the cable was changed in 08 a few months after the purchase. Thus, this has been a long standing issue.

My brother bought an Innova crysta late last year and it has seen its share of issues. The most apalling of them being repainting of the entire right side at there was spotting and paint discolouration.

The alternator pulley of my Innova failed recently despite being maintained in top shape after having only run 52000 kilometres in 10 years.

The airflow direction knob dues not work and they have quoted 40000 to charge the cable and the evaporator and condenser as well. This is when I literally ran away from Ravindu Toyota near Isckon. There have been many other issues which have not been resolved.
The point I am trying to convey is that Toyota reliability is questionable according to my and a few of our experiences. I am yet to experience the elusive Q class service.

I have close relatives working in the Bidadi plant and they offer very shocking views. According to them QC IS arbitrary and only when a series of complaints occur from a batch, does the QC Department do its job till the matter dies down.

They can track the spares being ordered by the dealers and have systems in place to notice a particular non wearable part like the spiral cable being reordered many times more than the anticipated replacement rates. Thus, they are aware of the situation. However, they choose not to act unless absolutely necessary and in no way avoidable.

Yes, were aptly worded..a potential killer.

Very sad state of affairs!

Last edited by ampere : 26th September 2018 at 06:09. Reason: quote tag fixed
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Old 26th September 2018, 08:01   #15
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Default Re: Poor quality spiral cables used by Toyota India? It can affect airbag deployment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
That’s quite a shocker. Our Petrol innova had this issue of Horn which won’t work when the steering is straight, it does work when it’s turned. Dealership gave an estimate of 15-20 K, I will try to find. Somehow it didn’t appealed to me and due to the low usage it got postponed.

So, any link to purchase the substitute wire or should I ask for replacement under recall?
Its not even about the 15-20K and who foots the bill. Its a matter of security.
Shouldn't you be asking for shutting down the Toyota production just like you did here ? ->
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post4442568 (XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured))

Toyota knows that part is of poor quality and prone to failure (which can impact airbag deployment). Recalls have been issued in some geographies, but not in India (at least not all models are covered). Doesn't really sound like a "respected" company which "quickly learnt and made changes". Or may be it learnt that recalls are expensive and not really needed (or can be done selectively) for a 3rd world country like India.

What is interesting is that I don't see the same "outrage" (that was meted out to another manufacturer) towards Toyota in this case. Instead you seem to have accepted your fate in the hands of Toyota and are looking for spare part procurement!

Sorry for taking potshots at you by referring to what you posted in another thread, but I hope you understand the point I am making about deep-rooted biases.

Last edited by SDP : 26th September 2018 at 08:27.
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