Team-BHP > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th November 2018, 20:31   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
stanjohn123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: TN 75
Posts: 1,315
Thanked: 1,310 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
That's a good enough response from TML to send their engineers home, I think the issue would be sorted out! It may boil down to the extra 'heft' of the Tiago that makes it a little unresponsive to the accelerator inputs and may a shorter gear ratios would do the trick. I'd rather live with a responsive engine & sacrifice a bit of fuel efficiency.
The issue is not yet solved. Planning to take it to TML tomorrow and let them keep the car with them till they rectify the issue fully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
What happened to your driver side orvm?

With prolonged use I guess you will get habituated to use the handbrake and also shift to manual (to hold a gear) while on inclines.

Do keep the thread updated about what TML does and if it solves the problem for you.
A kid riding a scooty pretty fast hit it while trying to avoid a ditch.

They tried a fix but It's not yet solved.

No, we can't get used to this abrubt behaviour. It's very risky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Minute 2 of the video, car should be in Gear 1 and has to respond immediately there is something wrong with it.

Unless you put your feet down on the throttle and car has to skip two gears, AMT usually has no issues with throttle response in comparison to a manual transmission during normal driving.

Some common issues I have observed on three AMTs.
1. Unnecessary upshifts on inclines and then goes back to 1.
2. Parallel parking on inclines is a challenge, if it's slippery forget it.
3. Creep function (creepy name)/hill hold fails on inclines. Even the City CVT has this issue.
4. Clearing a speed bump slowly and smoothly is difficult.
I think it has to be with the creep function. When they adjusted it, it worked fine for a few Km's and then the issue came back again.

But Santro AMT is not struggling like this at all.
stanjohn123 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 12th November 2018, 21:46   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
giri1.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,343
Thanked: 2,738 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Wish to write down my inputs too, to help others see the real picture of what happens to a Tata owner.

There are lots and lots of issues faced by many fellow Tigor owners, burning smell being the famous one, with rectification success rate being close to zero! I paid 7L and it can't even open the fuel lid properly worst decision I have ever made related to automobiles.

It just boils my blood to see all the Tata fanboys praise the brand on every single car related Youtube videos, guess just to gather likes. Even my friend who works for a Japanese brand was told that Tata cars are one of the best in market, sadly owners feel otherwise!

Issues with my Tigor AMT till now:
  • Extremely poor sales experience : They don't care.
  • Burning smell issue from week one : No solution, visited them once, other owners too didn't get any resolution too.
  • Poor performance : Took a test drive of Tiago AMT before booking, sadly couldn't push it more than 40 within city, performance beyond 80 is just very poor! not sure if the car actually has 85bhp.
  • Clutch engagement issue : Car was quiet smooth in traffic, then they made ECU update for other issues, after this car has started to jerk when I let my throttle off.
  • IRVM vibration : Minor but annoying. Have to switch off stereo or turn the bass down for it to go off. Even my Swift's mirror didn't vibrate so much for good amount of base.
  • Poor mileage in "sports" mode : Normal city mode robs too power, only in "Sports" mode does the car deliver all the mentioned 85bhp of power, in this case mileage drops drastically.

AND few more minor stuff.

My car is just 5 months old BTW, anyone investing a lot of money should trust only the owners before putting your money down, sometimes even a 10Km test drive might not be enough. Lesson learnt.

EDIT: Will try to reply to OP's issues once I cool off.

Last edited by giri1.8 : 12th November 2018 at 21:54.
giri1.8 is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 10:23   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Kosfactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,804
Thanked: 4,278 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
Wish to write down my inputs too, to help others see the real picture of what happens to a Tata owner.

EDIT: Will try to reply to OP's issues once I cool off.
I think most of the issues you are facing is due to the clutch.
It is not that unusual for AMT clutch to wear out super fast(I am not sure why, happened to a celerio I know), since the clutch is not actuated by you this can be replaced under warranty. They may try to tell you that such behavior is normal but it is not. It is supposed to shift smoothly unless you slam it to the floor.

There's a lot of fanfare going around everywhere about new Tata launches, Tiago, Hexa , nexon etc. I think Tata gives you a lot of car for your money, it is a wow feeling at first but that may wear off for some pretty quickly.

Do you raise your complaints through their app?

Last edited by navin : 13th November 2018 at 11:13. Reason: edited quoted post.
Kosfactor is online now  
Old 13th November 2018, 11:02   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
giri1.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,343
Thanked: 2,738 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
I think most of the issues you are facing is due to the clutch.

There's a lot of fanfare going around everywhere about new Tata launches, Tiago, Hexa , nexon etc. I think Tata gives you a lot of car for your money, it is a wow feeling at first but that may wear off for some pretty quickly.

Do you raise your complaints through their app?
Will get the clutch checked, but issue came up close to only 3000km on the ODO, 80% of which were of highway miles!

App has issues, just like their cars, when I enter my registration number it says vehicle not found, contact your dealer.

Acceleration number in stock form is indeed very bad, one of the owner tested it and found that it takes around 19 seconds to reach 100(again in "sports" mode) That is slower than my 9 year old carb 150cc commuter bike. HUGE mistake on my part for not checking the numbers, was very hard to find any data related to Tigor AMT since it sells in relatively small numbers.


Coming to issues face by OP:

Quote:
inconsistent Throttle response
AMT has to make sure car doesn't stall in first gear, hence there is a weird response to how power is put down.

Good way to tackle this is to
  • Have the handbrakes on
  • Press the accelerator slightly till you feel clutch starts to disengage.
  • Once you feel that car is trying to move forward, disengage the handbrake slowly and car will move forward without sudden acceleration plus there will be no backward movement.
Car moves forward quickly due to the following sequence of input by the driver in hasty situations:
  • Driver removes the foot off the brakes without any accelerator input.
  • Clutch will still be engaged in such situation(creep takes few second to work, not enough pull in creep mode)
  • Now once the car starts rolling backward, the drives pushes the accelerator upto the usual mark
  • Gearbox meanwhile is busy in disengaging the clutch smoothly and move the car forward
  • Since there is no immediate response the driver pushes the accelerator even more and car takes even more time to disengage.
  • Once car starts moving forward, it then puts all the power down, which results in sudden/unexpected acceleration.

From my experience I could see that AMT is strictly for people who know how to drive a manual very well and understand how clutch action works and how engine rpm and other parameters work.

There are few more scenarios too, where AMT acts in a weird way, but I am actually quiet okay with how the AMT box's logic works.
giri1.8 is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 11:59   #20
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 2,565
Thanked: 5,517 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

+1. This is where the key is, accelerator modulation. If more than adequate or full throttle is given at the beginning, the engine would take time to respond and then suddenly jump. A similar behavior can be seen in a CVT scooter as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
  • Now once the car starts rolling backward, the drives pushes the accelerator upto the usual mark
  • Gearbox meanwhile is busy in disengaging the clutch smoothly and move the car forward
  • Since there is no immediate response the driver pushes the accelerator even more and car takes even more time to disengage.

From my experience I could see that AMT is strictly for people who know how to drive a manual very well and understand how clutch action works and how engine rpm and other parameters work.
True. Since the technology is still the same, only an additional basic level of automation has been added on top of it, it should be driven in a similar fashion.

In manual, we press the accelerator gradually while releasing the clutch. If we press the accelerator fully down, either we have to slip the clutch or there would be sudden acceleration/wheelspin.
ashis89 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 12:05   #21
BHPian
 
keshav1426's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 268
Thanked: 178 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Sorry to be slightly off topic
My Wife and I were in the same dilemma a few months back. We needed an AMT or Automatic for Office trips . Our existing manual Ecosport was giving us severe leg pain mainly due to a heavy clutch coupled with peak traffic. We test drove the Kwid (No creep at that time), Celerio AMT (Seating Position wasn't convincing) , Tiago AMT (Irregular throttle) and WagonR AMT . We ended up buying the WagonR Vxi+ AMT mainly for 2 things- Ride position and AMT Response. I would say the AMT is perfectly matted to this engine and moves smoothly in traffic. This is also the same model sold as the Stingray version before. So my point is , though all of them are AMT transmissions, its how the tech is mated to the engine which counts. No jerks , Predictable behavior and I haven't faced any issues climbing the ramp at the mall parking . The tiago was very enticing to us with all those features and the superb music system but atlast the AMT did disappoint , felt under powered as well as irregular. Please dont take any offense. Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 13th November 2018 at 12:43. Reason: Typo corrected
keshav1426 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 15:31   #22
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 4,505
Thanked: 11,277 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

It would have been clearer if the video was made shorter and focussed on the instrument cluster and foot pedals. This behaviour is not observed in my Celerio or the other AMT cars I have driven from Maruti stable. There is a lag only while upshifting but downshifting and launching off an incline is very smooth and without surprises, even when I had juddering issues. Typically in the AMT, the throttle response is mediated by the AMT module and hence, the ECU and AMT module should have a well tuned interaction. By this, I mean to say if the AMT wants, it can ask ECU to cut throttle which is given priority over driver input. However, it should never induce a lag under hard acceleration be it flooring the pedal or just a hard push. In that case, my car responds well and there is no situation where the accelerator feels dead, except while upshifting which is normal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post

From my experience I could see that AMT is strictly for people who know how to drive a manual very well and understand how clutch action works and how engine rpm and other parameters work.

There are few more scenarios too, where AMT acts in a weird way, but I am actually quiet okay with how the AMT box's logic works.
I would like to disagree with your observation. Perhaps thats something specific to the way Tata has gone about in integrating the AMT with their engine. There are six AMT cars in my family(five celerios and a wagonR) with four being driven by new drivers with hardly any experience driving a manual and they have never complained about any misbehaviour. Maybe thats why enthusiasts dont like the AMT since sometimes in the process of making the drive smoother it leads to a lot of lag. However, at leasts the newbies who drive it dont complain.
audioholic is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 16:16   #23
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sagarpadaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,481
Thanked: 3,217 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post

Second issue is the hill climb issue, I thought it would work with Sport mode ON, but this is not the case always. It struggles to climb a hill and in some instances even after moving forward, the car rolls backwards.
1s[/url]
Hi, can you post a video of you climbing the same hill @ 2-minute mark after tata has provided the fix(Hopefully they can fix it at the earliest). I can compare it with the performance of my tiago in similar situation after seeing the fix.

Last edited by sagarpadaki : 13th November 2018 at 16:21.
sagarpadaki is online now  
Old 13th November 2018, 22:05   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
stanjohn123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: TN 75
Posts: 1,315
Thanked: 1,310 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
There are lots and lots of issues faced by many fellow Tigor owners, burning smell being the famous one, with rectification success rate being close to zero! I paid 7L and it can't even open the fuel lid properly worst decision I have ever made related to automobiles.
The fuel lid not opening was a 1 minute fix. They just bend something inside and it's working fine without any problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post

From my experience I could see that AMT is strictly for people who know how to drive a manual very well and understand how clutch action works and how engine rpm and other parameters work.
Being a team-bhp member I'm actually quite offended reading this post. First, all my life I have been driving manuals and automatics, even older AMT's.

Secondly this AMT and engine gearbox is the mistake. It has nothing to do with a person knowing or not knowing to drive a manual.

No other AMT's I drove had this issue. From Wagon R to the new Santro. I posted my video review of them too. You can check it out if you want. Trust me this crap behavior by the gearbox has nothing to do with driver skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keshav1426 View Post
The tiago was very enticing to us with all those features and the superb music system but atlast the AMT did disappoint , felt under powered as well as irregular. Please dont take any offense. Just my 2 cents.
Lucky you. But the test drive vehicle did not have this issue ( I drove for around 35 Kms too ), I think it's just a few batch car's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post

I would like to disagree with your observation. Perhaps thats something specific to the way Tata has gone about in integrating the AMT with their engine. There are six AMT cars in my family(five celerios and a wagonR) with four being driven by new drivers with hardly any experience driving a manual and they have never complained about any misbehaviour. Maybe thats why enthusiasts dont like the AMT since sometimes in the process of making the drive smoother it leads to a lot of lag. However, at leasts the newbies who drive it dont complain.
Yes this has nothing to do with a drivers skill. Other car's like you mentioned did not have this same erratic behaviour. I posted video of my drive in them as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Hi, can you post a video of you climbing the same hill @ 2-minute mark after tata has provided the fix(Hopefully they can fix it at the earliest). I can compare it with the performance of my tiago in similar situation after seeing the fix.
Yes, the temporary fix worked for a while and the issue cropped up again.

stanjohn123 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 22:18   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
giri1.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,343
Thanked: 2,738 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
Being a team-bhp member I'm actually quite offended reading this post. First, all my life I have been driving manuals and automatics, even older AMT's.

Secondly this AMT and engine gearbox is the mistake. It has nothing to do with a person knowing or not knowing to drive a manual.

No other AMT's I drove had this issue. From Wagon R to the new Santro. I posted my video review of them too. You can check it out if you want. Trust me this crap behavior by the gearbox has nothing to do with driver skill.


Yes this has nothing to do with a drivers skill. Other car's like you mentioned did not have this same erratic behaviour. I posted video of my drive in them as well.

My mistake then, most of the issues mentioned by you looks quiet normal for AMT boxes, but I guess the lag is very much more than what we can observe from videos or from what has been described.

My Generalisation was based on many people who drove my car and your initial post, no offence meant, I had no idea about the extend of the lag or your previous driving history. My only intention was to help someone with what I personally experienced.
giri1.8 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 22:42   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
stanjohn123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: TN 75
Posts: 1,315
Thanked: 1,310 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
My mistake then, most of the issues mentioned by you looks quiet normal for AMT boxes, but I guess the lag is very much more than what we can observe from videos or from what has been described.

My Generalisation was based on many people who drove my car and your initial post, no offence meant, I had no idea about the extend of the lag or your previous driving history. My only intention was to help someone with what I personally experienced.
That's alright. Water under bridge.

I may have not explained properly too. The thing is there is a clear difference when driving other AMT car's. If the problem didn't exist, TATA wouldn't have fixed it the first time around. It worked for a few KM's and the problem came back again.

So, there is a problem.
stanjohn123 is offline  
Old 13th November 2018, 22:52   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
giri1.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,343
Thanked: 2,738 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
That's alright. Water under bridge.

I may have not explained properly too. The thing is there is a clear difference when driving other AMT car's. If the problem didn't exist, TATA wouldn't have fixed it the first time around. It worked for a few KM's and the problem came back again.

So, there is a problem.
This might be a silly question, but did you try driving any other Tiago AMT(except for the test drive car mentioned)? That would very much prove the difference! If it feels the same as yours and other brand's AMT boxes feel better, then we can't expect any solution from Tata, as very little changes can be done with a customer's car. If the issue is just with your car, then go ahead post about this on social media and Tata will surely respond.

Hope your issues gets resolved, will keep an eye on this thread and see how things go. Will be more than glad to help
giri1.8 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 23:07   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
stanjohn123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: TN 75
Posts: 1,315
Thanked: 1,310 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
This might be a silly question, but did you try driving any other Tiago AMT(except for the test drive car mentioned)? That would very much prove the difference! If it feels the same as yours and other brand's AMT boxes feel better, then we can't expect any solution from Tata, as very little changes can be done with a customer's car. If the issue is just with your car, then go ahead post about this on social media and Tata will surely respond.

Hope your issues gets resolved, will keep an eye on this thread and see how things go. Will be more than glad to help
The thing is, once I posted my video a few owners contacted me and were really relieved and happy that I posted it. Because no one was believing them when they explained the exact same problem. TATA dealers kept saying this is normal AMT response but it's NOT.

Some other owners are so tired that they are just trading off their car's for other car's.

From what I can gather, this problem is not affecting all car's. Just few car's, maybe a certain batch of car's from March we suspect.
stanjohn123 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 14th November 2018, 10:35   #29
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 2,565
Thanked: 5,517 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
Thanks for the thread. No better way to get to know a car than directly from the owners.

I am pondering over an upgrade and although not Tiago, the Nexon petrol AMT is one of the contenders.

Does it have similar issues with the AMT gearbox considering it's the same engine (although with a turbo)?

@mods: Please feel free to delete the post if it's off-topic as this is primarily a Tiago thread. Since the discussion was around TATA's AMT cars, posted this query here.
You should post this question in the Nexon thread. Even though the base engine is shared between Tiago and Nexon, the later has it turbo-charged. The power delivery characteristics (and probably the gear ratios) would be very different. All the existing users of Nexon AMT should be able to give the right feedback.
ashis89 is offline  
Old 14th November 2018, 14:02   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: bangalore
Posts: 131
Thanked: 445 Times
Default re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Request GTO and other moderators to highlight this issue

Hi Stan,

My Aug 2018 2000 km run Tiago has the exact same problem.

I thought it was because it was brand new and after first service and some km the issue will vanish (I have a Nano AMT also and original pulling of engine was very weak as it was brand new and engine was tight).


It has a flat spot just off idle.

It will not respond at signals, when stationary, on inclines, etc. The 2 to 3 seconds lag is there. It's like the engine hesitates, is starved of petrol and then there is the misfiring/blowing sound like a small cracker has gone off and then if we give more throttle the car just shoots forward.

Sequence of events at a signal or when you join from a byroad to main road (maybe Stan can concur):

1. Signal turns green.
2. Press throttle ... brr brr brr hesitation, no response - people behind start honking.
3. Sometimes a misfire/blow back popping sound like someone farting happens (old Bullet, 2 stroke rickshaw pop sound).
4. Then the car finally picks up.

This is at its worst with the AC on.

This is totally random, not always.

Every signal or slope is a will-it-wontit moment. My wife who drives it sometimes fells frustrated. Embarrassing in fact.

Ironically, my 35,000 km run Nano AMT has no such problem and pick up and throttle response is flawless in comparison.

All other scenarios engine response is smooth and fine and car is very powerful on the highway .

I have mailed seniors in Tata and commented on the Team-BHP thread to them also.
This is a very serious safety issue. You think the car can make it and spot a gap in traffic and try to turn, engine wont respond and you are caught in middle.

Last edited by aah78 : 15th November 2018 at 00:18. Reason: Post fixed for readability.
Nanolover is offline   (7) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks