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Old 25th October 2018, 21:01   #1
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Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

I have done close to 1,800 Km's and the car has 2 major issues when driven with AC ON and it seems very high risk or dangerous when in the hands of a newbie or inexperienced driver.

The first issue is inconsistent Throttle response , it behaves differently at different times. Sometimes at 25-50% throttle you get instant surge of power and other times, it just crawls or stays dead for 4-5 second's even at 100% throttle before getting torque to the front wheels. Because of this you just can't predict how the car performs to any throttle input. So over taking is highly risky with this vehicle.

Second issue is the hill climb issue, I thought it would work with Sport mode ON, but this is not the case always. It struggles to climb a hill and in some instances even after moving forward, the car rolls backwards.

I really do not know if it's the AMT gearbox issue or if it's something to do with the ECU tuning but I think this is not how it should perform.

I have posted a video of my experience and would love to get some valuable feedback on this issue since TATA customer care don't seem to be bothered about it.

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Old 25th October 2018, 21:24   #2
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Is this inconsistent behavior seen in the same gear? (Not seen the video yet). Otherwise it could be the case where when it is in the right gear the response is sharp and in other cases it needs to drop down 1-2 gears and since it is an AMT there is a delay for that to happen. 4-5 seconds seems to be way too high though.

The DCT in the Ford Ecosport also has this behavior, it is unpredictable in several scenarios. Of course, once you get used to it, you subconsciously adjust. Probably one reason Ford dropped this from the India market also.
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Old 25th October 2018, 21:50   #3
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

One of my friends faced a similar problem, but his Tiago was manual. When 100% accelerator input was given, the vehicle did not respond for a few seconds. He complained about it and the issue is taken care of in the first service itself. The ECU software was updated and now he does not have any problem since over a year now.

Last edited by GTO : 26th October 2018 at 17:05. Reason: Poorly typed post
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Old 25th October 2018, 22:26   #4
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

My following opinion isn't based on the Tiago AMT specifically, but stems from my experiences with Torque Convertor, Dual Clutch and AMT trannies over the past decade.

Generally, AMTs are confused more easily than the conventional AT boxes is what I've realised. However, it's very predictable too. It's generally the driver (and his inputs) that are unpredictable for something as simplistic like an AMT.
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Old 25th October 2018, 22:37   #5
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Isn't rollback on incline inherent to AMT's and DSG's? Does the Tiago AMT have a creep function? Since the car is new take it to Tata Service. Recently I was driven around in an Ignis diesel AMT and was pleasantly surprised as to how refined it was.

Last edited by Durango Dude : 25th October 2018 at 22:41.
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Old 25th October 2018, 23:01   #6
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
The first issue is inconsistent Throttle response ,



Second issue is the hill climb issue, I thought it would work with Sport mode ON, but this is not the case always.
Have you tried to get it resolved at TASS ? I hope you have, before posting here.

If you see a problem with a new car, the first thing would be to approach TASS ( or respective ASS). If not getting resolved, then definitely check with other users / owners.
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Old 25th October 2018, 23:29   #7
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

How do you go from 25% throttle to 100%? Do you floor the accelerator? Maruti A-star 4 speed torque convertor AT doesn't do much either if you floor the accelerator from crawling speed on a steep hill. It doesn't take 4 to 5 seconds like your AMT, but definitely there is nothing on offer for atleast 2 seconds.

Instead of flooring the pedal, slowly press the accelerator and go from 25% to 100% and then see how it goes. But how slow? The tacho or engine sound will tell you. Push on only after engine responds to your throttle input.
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Old 26th October 2018, 01:39   #8
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

You know the 4 second thing is a bit strange, I mean such a huge lag is strange, but the lag itself is not, in the Celerio AMT, you will find similar traits, if you smash the throttle too hard say when you start off on a slight incline, or say you start off from even a signal, it takes a bit of a time to make its move ( Not 4 seconds though ) after you have pressed the accelerator. Like for example, to exit my building you have to pass a small slope, my fui's Celerio AMT there goes into brain freeze mode when I press the accelerator but then suddenly jumps, but its a consistent laggy behavior when its put through similar situation
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Old 26th October 2018, 08:50   #9
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Is this inconsistent behavior seen in the same gear? (Not seen the video yet). Otherwise it could be the case where when it is in the right gear the response is sharp and in other cases it needs to drop down 1-2 gears and since it is an AMT there is a delay for that to happen. 4-5 seconds seems to be way too high though.
Issue is mostly in 1st gear only. It’s very inconsistent to predict. I haven’t driven much on highways to see how it performs there but I’m sure it will struggle to kickdown immediately too being an AMT so I’d never overtake with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiranGS View Post
one of my friend faced similar problem but his tiago was manual. when 100% accelerated the vehicle did not respond for few seconds. He complained about it and the issue is taken care of in the first service itself. the ECU software was updated and now he does not have any problem at all for more than a year now.
I’m hoping they can fix it with an ECU tune but so far TATA have not responded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
My following opinion isn't based on the Tiago AMT specifically, but stems from my experiences with Torque Convertor, Dual Clutch and AMT trannies over the past decade.

Generally, AMTs are confused more easily than the conventional AT boxes is what I've realised. However, it's very predictable too. It's generally the driver (and his inputs) that are unpredictable for something as simplistic like an AMT.
It’s not consistent enough to predict. It’s for my wife so that’s why it worries me. I could probably manage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
Isn't rollback on incline inherent to AMT's and DSG's? Does the Tiago AMT have a creep function? Since the car is new take it to Tata Service. Recently I was driven around in an Ignis diesel AMT and was pleasantly surprised as to how refined it was.
It has a creep function but it’s of no use in an incline.Yes, this happens while taking the incline, it goes up and then comes back down half way even while not braking.

Took to service center and they told to mail TATA about this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Have you tried to get it resolved at TASS ? I hope you have, before posting here.

If you see a problem with a new car, the first thing would be to approach TASS ( or respective ASS). If not getting resolved, then definitely check with other users / owners.
Yes, they asked to mail TATA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
How do you go from 25% throttle to 100%? Do you floor the accelerator? Maruti A-star 4 speed torque convertor AT doesn't do much either if you floor the accelerator from crawling speed on a steep hill. It doesn't take 4 to 5 seconds like your AMT, but definitely there is nothing on offer for atleast 2 seconds.

Instead of flooring the pedal, slowly press the accelerator and go from 25% to 100% and then see how it goes. But how slow? The tacho or engine sound will tell you. Push on only after engine responds to your throttle input.
I tried with all input levels, it struggles and is very unpredictable. There is a small tick tick sound from engine while the car does not move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
You know the 4 second thing is a bit strange, I mean such a huge lag is strange, but the lag itself is not, in the Celerio AMT, you will find similar traits, if you smash the throttle too hard say when you start off on a slight incline, or say you start off from even a signal, it takes a bit of a time to make its move ( Not 4 seconds though ) after you have pressed the accelerator. Like for example, to exit my building you have to pass a small slope, my fui's Celerio AMT there goes into brain freeze mode when I press the accelerator but then suddenly jumps, but its a consistent laggy behavior when its put through similar situation
There is no consistency in the lag. That’s the problem. If it was we could get adjusted to it.

Last edited by stanjohn123 : 26th October 2018 at 08:54.
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Old 26th October 2018, 09:17   #10
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

I have a June 2018 Tiago XZA:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
The first issue is inconsistent Throttle response , it behaves differently at different times. Sometimes at 25-50% throttle you get instant surge of power and other times, it just crawls or stays dead for 4-5 second's even at 100% throttle before getting torque to the front wheels. Because of this you just can't predict how the car performs to any throttle input. So over taking is highly risky with this vehicle.
This problem of sudden acceleration is as such felt mostly when you're in the 1st gear because that's when you the car lunges forward the most.

Whenever someone new or inexperienced is driving the car, I have to remind them several times of this sudden lunging. It becomes especially tricky when you're in bumper to bumper traffic or merging into a lane from standstill because the car just forward, often more than the space margin available.

One workaround I follow: step off the brake and allow the car to creep a little and then when the rpm builds up, gently start pressing the accelerator.

Quote:
Second issue is the hill climb issue, I thought it would work with Sport mode ON, but this is not the case always. It struggles to climb a hill and in some instances even after moving forward, the car rolls backwards.
In the absence of hill hold assist, the creep function can only do so much to keep the car going forward. If the incline is steeper than what creep function can manage, the car will struggle. I haven't had (or rather, haven't tried) the car roll back so much though. I'll check it.

Quote:
I really do not know if it's the AMT gearbox issue or if it's something to do with the ECU tuning but I think this is not how it should perform.
The AMT isn't very refined so the 1st issue is one I just live with. Yes, it is dangerous because the acceleration is indeed too sudden too soon.

EDIT: As for overtaking or even climbing an incline with moderate acceleration, the AMT is too aggressive in gear changes. I've had multiple gear changes within a few seconds while the AMT was trying to figure out the best gear. These things I just accept as an attribute of the AMT.

Last edited by libranof1987 : 26th October 2018 at 09:19.
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Old 26th October 2018, 09:50   #11
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

I have also faced this issue on our Tiago XZA.

Start on an incline with AC, the car stutters as if shutting down and after a few seconds the wheels are able to get the power. There is a left turn that I have to take to join the main road and the main road is pretty steep. So most times, I have to take the left turn starting from a standstill due to traffic on the main road.

I have figured out a few ways I can overcome it.

1. Switch to sports mode and switch off AC. This works for medium inclines with less people on board.
2. Switch to manual mode and climb. This always works. I have tried this approach multiple times and it just works
3. Put on the handbrake. Give it some revvs and when you start feeling the tug , release the brake and the car will move forward even on an incline with a full load. It works both in manual and auto mode
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Old 27th October 2018, 16:17   #12
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Whenever someone new or inexperienced is driving the car, I have to remind them several times of this sudden lunging. It becomes especially tricky when you're in bumper to bumper traffic or merging into a lane from standstill because the car just forward, often more than the space margin available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post

I have figured out a few ways I can overcome it.

1. Switch to sports mode and switch off AC. This works for medium inclines with less people on board.
2. Switch to manual mode and climb. This always works. I have tried this approach multiple times and it just works
3. Put on the handbrake. Give it some revvs and when you start feeling the tug , release the brake and the car will move forward even on an incline with a full load. It works both in manual and auto mode
Thanks for the work around guy's. While I drive I usually follow or experiment what you have mentioned here.

But the issue is, the car is for my wife. All the other car's at home are manual which she can't drive so I bought this automatic mainly for convenience sake for her.

But this rubbish AMT is anything but that. Also you know the mentality of Indians on the road while a woman drives a car. If an accident were to occur they will default blame it on the lady, although the car here is very much at fault.

I just got a call from TATA engineer's, think they saw my video. They said they will come home on Monday to check the issue and rectify it. But seeing other owners response here, I think this is the nature of this good for nothing AMT gearbox.

Anyways will keep you guy's updated.
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Old 27th October 2018, 16:30   #13
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
I just got a call from TATA engineer's, think they saw my video. They said they will come home on Monday to check the issue and rectify it. But seeing other owners response here, I think this is the nature of this good for nothing AMT gearbox. Anyways will keep you guy's updated.
That's a good enough response from TML to send their engineers home, I think the issue would be sorted out! It may boil down to the extra 'heft' of the Tiago that makes it a little unresponsive to the accelerator inputs and may a shorter gear ratios would do the trick. I'd rather live with a responsive engine & sacrifice a bit of fuel efficiency.
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Old 27th October 2018, 16:48   #14
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

What happened to your driver side orvm?

I had a test drive of the Tiago AMT and specifically checked the hill climb part as the parking is in the basement. I also observed similar behaviour but it was easily overcome with the use of handbrake. With prolonged use I guess you will get habituated to use the handbrake and also shift to manual (to hold a gear) while on inclines.

Do keep the thread updated about what TML does and if it solves the problem for you.
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Old 27th October 2018, 17:00   #15
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re: Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues

Minute 2 of the video, car should be in Gear 1 and has to respond immediately there is something wrong with it.

Unless you put your feet down on the throttle and car has to skip two gears, AMT usually has no issues with throttle response in comparison to a manual transmission during normal driving.

Some common issues I have observed on three AMTs.
1. Unnecessary upshifts on inclines and then goes back to 1.
2. Parallel parking on inclines is a challenge, if it's slippery forget it.
3. Creep function (creepy name)/hill hold fails on inclines. Even the City CVT has this issue.
4. Clearing a speed bump slowly and smoothly is difficult.
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