My Experience Of Adding Boric Acid In Petrol

vezj420 · 14th January 2007, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaizer Sozay

Absolutely....
2.5 ML Acetone + 2.5 ML Xylene + 0.8 ML 2T Per litre petrol.....
Was The best cocktail ever.

Interesting to know that this mixture would probably be better than System G! I'll try out with the full dose of acetone first (was using only 1 ml per liter, earlier), and then move onto 2T and Xylene.

14th January 2007, 18:23

finetuning, you are doing pioneering research, I hope you do not stop with this milestone but continue to develop better recipe(s). I hope you have applied for patents as well. Once you have patent you can share the recipe with petrolchemical companies and launch product in the market. We are all so fortunate to have a person like you sharing this wealth of knowledge with us.

Hats off to you sir.

tsk1979 · 14th January 2007, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSyn

finetuning, you are doing pioneering research, I hope you do not stop with this milestone but continue to develop better recipe(s). I hope you have applied for patents as well. Once you have patent you can share the recipe with petrolchemical companies and launch product in the market. We are all so fortunate to have a person like you sharing this wealth of knowledge with us.

Hats off to you sir.

No pioneering research here. All these methods of additives are already patented.
He is doing very good google research

Vid6639 · 14th January 2007, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

No pioneering research here. All these methods of additives are already patented.
He is doing very good google research

Maybe google research but he's brave to try all that on his car. plus he's pretty good at it. All of it seems to be working for him.

I don't think anyone else would be so adventurous to try all this out.

gd1418 · 15th January 2007, 07:57

Well, I ain't batting for any one. But while it is true that finetuning has not done any ground breaking discovery, at least he has posted for the benefit of all the experiments he dared to carry out on his own machine. What if it is a '95 Esteem? The machine is not scrap material. And everything can't be judged or valued by its sale/resale value.

Finetuning did not and could not coerce any one to try out, what he did, on their machines. Whosoever here has done so has dared to do at his/her own free will. Some have benefitted and a few have not.

So, no point in trying to run down or endlessly argue on the pros & cons. Ideas, experiments, results posted here are individual efforts. People are free to utilise at their own risk..!!

To gather info via google search and corelate them for sharing also requires an effort - that all do not do..!!

Psycho · 15th January 2007, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gd1418

Well, I ain't batting for any one. But while it is true that finetuning has not done any ground breaking discovery, at least he has posted for the benefit of all the experiments he dared to carry out on his own machine. What if it is a '95 Esteem? The machine is not scrap material. And everything can't be judged or valued by its sale/resale value.

Finetuning did not and could not coerce any one to try out, what he did, on their machines. Whosoever here has done so has dared to do at his/her own free will. Some have benefitted and a few have not.

So, no point in trying to run down or endlessly argue on the pros & cons. Ideas, experiments, results posted here are individual efforts. People are free to utilise at their own risk..!!

To gather info via google search and corelate them for sharing also requires an effort - that all do not do..!!

GD Well said, but at the same time one cannot justify each mod with just the words that is is wonderful without actually proving the benefits. It is like me saying that I added whisky to my petrol and the car runs a lot smoother. Please realise Boric Acid is an "ACID" and it will work on metals and rubber, I am no chemist to be able to give you exact reactions that could happen. PS : If moisture is present, boric acid can be corrosive to iron.

In addition to that it does become endlessly repititive if one comes on to one thread and keeps posting the same thing over and over again.

PS at times I really get lost on what is being said look at the post below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by finetuning

I tested this in another 96 esteem with stock setting running on lpg.....I added above mixture in engine oil......also prepared mix of 3gm per ltr powder with 2.5 ml acetone & added in petrol tank....

Result is so wonderful....my friend who was driving this car coulnt beleive the smoothness of the car.....it really works...

1) Does he mean to say he added it to the petrol tank of an LPG car and it ran really well???
2) Is he talking of Boric acid in engine oil or Boric acid in the fuel???

Quote:

Originally Posted by finetuning

We dont know the content of system G......it might contain acetone or other stuff.....if it already contain acetone then adding more acetone will not pass desired benefit........

1) Does he understand as to what is is happening in the engine / fuel tank in that case?
2) No it does not mean accidental working of experiments cannot happen

Quote:

Originally Posted by finetuning

Also whatever I added in petrol is already burnt.....no part of additive remains in tank forever exxcept boric acid powder......

1) Have you checked for residuals in your tank?
2) What has been the affect of this experiment on the engine, has it affected the valves / rings / Cat Con / The tank itself?
3) Now if "Boric Acid Powder Remains In the TANK" what benefit can it provide?

Hence my reasons to doubt what has been said there are so many contradictions all over the place.

Like I said earlier 1 consolidated post showing:

Nature of experiment
Controlled conditions
How to do
Output Measured: most critical

should be enough for all to know what he is saying insted of a hundred posts saying the same things over and over again.

Boom Shiva · 15th January 2007, 12:15

Boric Acid powder makes your car run smoother? What are you driving, a carrom board?

Steeroid · 15th January 2007, 12:42

Hopefully one of these days we will come to a situation where we add petrol to all these concoctions instead of adding these concoctions to petrol. We're nearly there, by the looks of it.

Perhaps we'll be able to do without Petrol at all!

Samurai · 15th January 2007, 13:04

These kind of experiments don't have any scientific basis. It's like the farmers who use coco-cola as pesticide. In local hotels here they use coco-cola as sink drain declogger. They all swear it works, but nobody can explain how. Nobody knows the side-effects or long term effects either.

tsk1979 · 15th January 2007, 13:07

Boron as a lubricant is well known and proven, and soon it may be used in engine oils by castrol etc., but the problem is that many rubbers esp the ones used in O-Rings are corroded by boric acid. No doubt here, its a chemical reaction and will take place. If your O-Ring material is not susceptible to boric acid you are lucky.

finetuning · 15th January 2007, 15:21

One thing I want to say that experiments are always scientific.........the best way to judge is the final outcome irrespective of how...where...& when.....how can any one declare that experiments are not at all scientific ??......

Do any body cared to read all those patents in details & discuss that scientific aspect based on which I did???..........

I m happy that boron is known element in lubrication & will be soon used by castrol......its being already used by many in such a vast variety of fields including Railways...ships....defence sectors & automobiles to name a few.....however the concept is new.....

so what if I use it of my own & find benefits & sharing?....

Also adding it in oil & in petrol is same???...yes.....end benefit is same of imparting lubrication but it works so differently in both case......I shared both in different thread......in case of oil it will stick to engine metal surface making boric oxide in high temp & pressure condition......no ACID part destroying anything in this case......

In case of of lpg driven car I added in petrol tank & ran with petrol for at least 30 km.....instant outcome is felt once one passes through such situation.....

In case of fuel also it will stick to inside of fuel lines.....also it will be carried
into combustion chamber & there it works like in engine oil under heat......

I dont understand "Accidental Working Of Experiment".......yes its an accident that I came across such wonderful ideas...but there after its a my effort not only in reading & understanding the essence behind all these but trying them out in my car........

Does any one look at all these with pure sceintific mind??

Lets understand the essence of experiments....

Its the cry for all auto enthusiast to get more power at the same time maintaining and/or increasing FE without hurting pocket.......we can swap engine & produce BHP but my effort is in the different direction.......I found that with little effort we can infact utilise wasted energy for our disposal......

Acetone & other suff were aimed at improving the chemistry of fuels there by making efficient combustion helping engine &benefits goes from owner up to ENVIRONMENT.....

Boric acid was aimed reducing friction to never imagined scale.....friction plays such a great role determining final power at wheel....

Grooves concept was aimed at improving design aspect of engine thereby improving almost everything an engiine needs....be is FE and power and less emission.....again those who tried understand well the benefit......

I m happy that all worked well....I can call it an ACCIDENT but I m happy that its with me.....

I wish such good accidents happens to all dear readers......

Enjoy....

rajismine · 15th January 2007, 16:23

I would rather appreciate the efforts put in by "Finetuning".

I am sure if the idea was not scientific, he would not have experimented with his car.

Though we may easily say that his appraoch is not scientific, but are we wearing our scientifc caps while saying that?

I am not really sure of the long term effects of this on the engine, fuel lining, and o ring whcih may corrode with this. Even that the valves might get clogged.

But the beautiful thing is that "Finetuning" has shown us a way. And with help of real scientists and good appratus this idea can be driven further as all other things like engine etc can be taken care off provided the idea works.

Good thought process Finetuning.

Psycho · 15th January 2007, 17:14

Well let us put it another way... better way of getting milage is by driving well the 2 - 3% gains that you can get by all these additives can be overshadowed easily.

And yes if a LPG driven car is driven on petrol you will find an immediate effect due to better combustion if the stock ignition curves are maintained.

Please there is a difference in accidental discovery and going by the gut behaviour. It took 60 years for people to understand how to use Teflon.

Engines are mechanical devices that can be optimised not just for power but also for milage however please realise petrol is not the starting point to improve milage it comes from improving mechanical efficiencies and removing the mass manufaturing defects and improving the combustion process itself.

I was amazed by the Somender Singh Grooves but mechanically also understand that it works well on the older 2 valve per cylinder engines.

I understand that boron can help but it makes sense to get better oils instead.

I know acetone can help in increasing the octane rating but in such minimal quantities it is like the placebo effect.

Why dont you look at other options like better cams, higher compression, better port design, longer con rods(increase torque), turbo with lean burn etc to increase power and then just add taller gearing to get better milage?

Why cant you accept that things might just go wrong some day when you are trying to be cost effective?

Why cant you be a better driver to increase milage?

Why cant you look at your tyre pressure on a regular basis to make sure you reduce friction where it is at the highest?

Really wonder why people expect so much out of their machines by adding a miracle solution, it is like wearing clothes made by Armani (look alike in this case) and thinking they look great when they carry a 58 inch waist (no mention to anyone here

).

Cmon accept reality nothing comes free and if you need better milage I think my dad's recipe was the best look for a car with the highest torque around 3500 rpm and the longest stroke, just drive the car on the torque band on higher gears. Do realise cars are designed to run optimally on just one rpm range the one the cam is designed for. Todays driving conditions in cities will never allow you to get anywhere close milage figures as our parents used to get.

Read some of this some time you are free:

Improving IC Engine Efficiency

Combustion Modeling

Damn Interesting » The Six-Stroke Engine

Advanced Technologies & Energy Efficiency

Tips to improve your Gas Mileage

philipreji · 15th January 2007, 19:33

Psycho,

Can't agree more with you. However, when I was using petrol from an BP pump in Bangalore, addition of acetone made the drive smoother, and gave a mileage boost of about 10%.But after shifting over to Shell, I can't find much of a difference. In anycase I wouldn't dare use any of the other concoctions suggested here, since the longterm effects are not studied.

cheers,
Reji

finetuning · 15th January 2007, 20:30

I wish that being the part of this wonderful community most of us are taking enough care to check their tyre pressures & drive carefully to get good mileage......but above this base there is gain in many areas & thats not just 2 to 3%.......

My way of thinking might differ here......most of peple think of changing cams....rods...higher compression...porting & other thing............I m thinking of getting best from just plain old FUEL & stock setup by adding such thing which at one instance look so absurd yet effective imparting unimaginable benefits .......I think that FUEL being again most neglected entity in auto world....so instead of changing mechanical aspect I m trying to improve performance from FUEL itself as the starting point.....thats the basic difference........

There is nothing like magic in this world.....its just lack of understanding the underlying phenomenon.........it remains magic till curtain of ignorance is lifted.....some one has done deep studies & understood benefits of acetones & other stuff that too after so many decades of experience......its not only about increasing octane rating of plain fuel but much more.....its altogether a different aspect why its not being commercialised......

Also about the groove theory I must say that its irrespective of number of valves in true sense......valves are nothing but better inhaling & better exhaling mechanisms of an engine.....more valves makes engine breath more but there is also limit...........creating essential turbulance out of age old design of quench pad or squish area is the function of grooves.....the benefits of turbulance in engine is neglected feature....as per inventor himself its more beneficial in new cars......only time will say......we might see cars with grooves done at factory itself without our knowledge.....

Also I expect every lubricating materials to be boron treated in near future...I have already seen many using them with their own proprietery lubricants...

The discussion must not be person specific but rather logic specific........discussing the logic togather with implementation might lead to another discovety or invention that we dont know.....

I will say that it might take just 5 to 10 years to understand the benefits of grooves & boron especially compared to teflon for 60 years.....we are in rapid changes zone..........its time that we think differently.......

Enjoy.....

14th January 2007, 18:23	#17
SuperSyn Posts: n/a	finetuning, you are doing pioneering research, I hope you do not stop with this milestone but continue to develop better recipe(s). I hope you have applied for patents as well. Once you have patent you can share the recipe with petrolchemical companies and launch product in the market. We are all so fortunate to have a person like you sharing this wealth of knowledge with us. Hats off to you sir.
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 07:57	#20
gd1418 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,578 Thanked: 728 Times View My Garage	Well, I ain't batting for any one. But while it is true that finetuning has not done any ground breaking discovery, at least he has posted for the benefit of all the experiments he dared to carry out on his own machine. What if it is a '95 Esteem? The machine is not scrap material. And everything can't be judged or valued by its sale/resale value. Finetuning did not and could not coerce any one to try out, what he did, on their machines. Whosoever here has done so has dared to do at his/her own free will. Some have benefitted and a few have not. So, no point in trying to run down or endlessly argue on the pros & cons. Ideas, experiments, results posted here are individual efforts. People are free to utilise at their own risk..!! To gather info via google search and corelate them for sharing also requires an effort - that all do not do..!!
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 12:15	#22
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	Boric Acid powder makes your car run smoother? What are you driving, a carrom board?
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 12:42	#23
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	Hopefully one of these days we will come to a situation where we add petrol to all these concoctions instead of adding these concoctions to petrol. We're nearly there, by the looks of it. Perhaps we'll be able to do without Petrol at all!
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 13:04	#24
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,813 Thanked: 45,447 Times View My Garage	These kind of experiments don't have any scientific basis. It's like the farmers who use coco-cola as pesticide. In local hotels here they use coco-cola as sink drain declogger. They all swear it works, but nobody can explain how. Nobody knows the side-effects or long term effects either.
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 13:07	#25
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,823 Times View My Garage	Boron as a lubricant is well known and proven, and soon it may be used in engine oils by castrol etc., but the problem is that many rubbers esp the ones used in O-Rings are corroded by boric acid. No doubt here, its a chemical reaction and will take place. If your O-Ring material is not susceptible to boric acid you are lucky.
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 15:21	#26
finetuning BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 394 Thanked: 13 Times	One thing I want to say that experiments are always scientific.........the best way to judge is the final outcome irrespective of how...where...& when.....how can any one declare that experiments are not at all scientific ??...... Do any body cared to read all those patents in details & discuss that scientific aspect based on which I did???.......... I m happy that boron is known element in lubrication & will be soon used by castrol......its being already used by many in such a vast variety of fields including Railways...ships....defence sectors & automobiles to name a few.....however the concept is new..... so what if I use it of my own & find benefits & sharing?.... Also adding it in oil & in petrol is same???...yes.....end benefit is same of imparting lubrication but it works so differently in both case......I shared both in different thread......in case of oil it will stick to engine metal surface making boric oxide in high temp & pressure condition......no ACID part destroying anything in this case...... In case of of lpg driven car I added in petrol tank & ran with petrol for at least 30 km.....instant outcome is felt once one passes through such situation..... In case of fuel also it will stick to inside of fuel lines.....also it will be carried into combustion chamber & there it works like in engine oil under heat...... I dont understand "Accidental Working Of Experiment".......yes its an accident that I came across such wonderful ideas...but there after its a my effort not only in reading & understanding the essence behind all these but trying them out in my car........ Does any one look at all these with pure sceintific mind?? Lets understand the essence of experiments.... Its the cry for all auto enthusiast to get more power at the same time maintaining and/or increasing FE without hurting pocket.......we can swap engine & produce BHP but my effort is in the different direction.......I found that with little effort we can infact utilise wasted energy for our disposal...... Acetone & other suff were aimed at improving the chemistry of fuels there by making efficient combustion helping engine &benefits goes from owner up to ENVIRONMENT..... Boric acid was aimed reducing friction to never imagined scale.....friction plays such a great role determining final power at wheel.... Grooves concept was aimed at improving design aspect of engine thereby improving almost everything an engiine needs....be is FE and power and less emission.....again those who tried understand well the benefit...... I m happy that all worked well....I can call it an ACCIDENT but I m happy that its with me..... I wish such good accidents happens to all dear readers...... Enjoy....
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 16:23	#27
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	I would rather appreciate the efforts put in by "Finetuning". I am sure if the idea was not scientific, he would not have experimented with his car. Though we may easily say that his appraoch is not scientific, but are we wearing our scientifc caps while saying that? I am not really sure of the long term effects of this on the engine, fuel lining, and o ring whcih may corrode with this. Even that the valves might get clogged. But the beautiful thing is that "Finetuning" has shown us a way. And with help of real scientists and good appratus this idea can be driven further as all other things like engine etc can be taken care off provided the idea works. Good thought process Finetuning.
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 17:14	#28
Psycho Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,043 Thanked: 110 Times View My Garage	Well let us put it another way... better way of getting milage is by driving well the 2 - 3% gains that you can get by all these additives can be overshadowed easily. And yes if a LPG driven car is driven on petrol you will find an immediate effect due to better combustion if the stock ignition curves are maintained. Please there is a difference in accidental discovery and going by the gut behaviour. It took 60 years for people to understand how to use Teflon. Engines are mechanical devices that can be optimised not just for power but also for milage however please realise petrol is not the starting point to improve milage it comes from improving mechanical efficiencies and removing the mass manufaturing defects and improving the combustion process itself. I was amazed by the Somender Singh Grooves but mechanically also understand that it works well on the older 2 valve per cylinder engines. I understand that boron can help but it makes sense to get better oils instead. I know acetone can help in increasing the octane rating but in such minimal quantities it is like the placebo effect. Why dont you look at other options like better cams, higher compression, better port design, longer con rods(increase torque), turbo with lean burn etc to increase power and then just add taller gearing to get better milage? Why cant you accept that things might just go wrong some day when you are trying to be cost effective? Why cant you be a better driver to increase milage? Why cant you look at your tyre pressure on a regular basis to make sure you reduce friction where it is at the highest? Really wonder why people expect so much out of their machines by adding a miracle solution, it is like wearing clothes made by Armani (look alike in this case) and thinking they look great when they carry a 58 inch waist (no mention to anyone here ). Cmon accept reality nothing comes free and if you need better milage I think my dad's recipe was the best look for a car with the highest torque around 3500 rpm and the longest stroke, just drive the car on the torque band on higher gears. Do realise cars are designed to run optimally on just one rpm range the one the cam is designed for. Todays driving conditions in cities will never allow you to get anywhere close milage figures as our parents used to get. Read some of this some time you are free: Improving IC Engine Efficiency Combustion Modeling Damn Interesting » The Six-Stroke Engine Advanced Technologies & Energy Efficiency Tips to improve your Gas Mileage
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 19:33	#29
philipreji BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: bangalore Posts: 51 Thanked: 29 Times	Psycho, Can't agree more with you. However, when I was using petrol from an BP pump in Bangalore, addition of acetone made the drive smoother, and gave a mileage boost of about 10%.But after shifting over to Shell, I can't find much of a difference. In anycase I wouldn't dare use any of the other concoctions suggested here, since the longterm effects are not studied. cheers, Reji
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 20:30	#30
finetuning BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 394 Thanked: 13 Times	I wish that being the part of this wonderful community most of us are taking enough care to check their tyre pressures & drive carefully to get good mileage......but above this base there is gain in many areas & thats not just 2 to 3%....... My way of thinking might differ here......most of peple think of changing cams....rods...higher compression...porting & other thing............I m thinking of getting best from just plain old FUEL & stock setup by adding such thing which at one instance look so absurd yet effective imparting unimaginable benefits .......I think that FUEL being again most neglected entity in auto world....so instead of changing mechanical aspect I m trying to improve performance from FUEL itself as the starting point.....thats the basic difference........ There is nothing like magic in this world.....its just lack of understanding the underlying phenomenon.........it remains magic till curtain of ignorance is lifted.....some one has done deep studies & understood benefits of acetones & other stuff that too after so many decades of experience......its not only about increasing octane rating of plain fuel but much more.....its altogether a different aspect why its not being commercialised...... Also about the groove theory I must say that its irrespective of number of valves in true sense......valves are nothing but better inhaling & better exhaling mechanisms of an engine.....more valves makes engine breath more but there is also limit...........creating essential turbulance out of age old design of quench pad or squish area is the function of grooves.....the benefits of turbulance in engine is neglected feature....as per inventor himself its more beneficial in new cars......only time will say......we might see cars with grooves done at factory itself without our knowledge..... Also I expect every lubricating materials to be boron treated in near future...I have already seen many using them with their own proprietery lubricants... The discussion must not be person specific but rather logic specific........discussing the logic togather with implementation might lead to another discovety or invention that we dont know..... I will say that it might take just 5 to 10 years to understand the benefits of grooves & boron especially compared to teflon for 60 years.....we are in rapid changes zone..........its time that we think differently....... Enjoy.....
	() Thanks