My Experience Of Adding Boric Acid In Petrol

Psycho · 15th January 2007, 21:57

Well i never did want to be person specific but when it comes to fuel all i can say one needs a lot more understanding of the chemical processes and the ignition flame front before saying it works. PS anyone can get a patent.

I really want to stop discussing this over and over again as this keeps going on. Thank you i have said enough on this topic

The Wolf · 15th January 2007, 22:01

Psycho I understand where you are coming from however as far as I understand Finetuning never urges anyone to do what he is doing, so as long as its his car that he is experimenting with and enlightening us with the benefits(short term may be due to lack of long term evidence), we all should be happy n involved to see what comes out of his newer experiments...

Now, look at me, Im damn fascinated with this mans knowledge, perseverance and desire to explore that world of unknown...Its finally up to us to feel insync with his school of though or overlook it. As far as I understand, Finetuning feels that all the rush with engine mods is secondary as far as performance gains are concerned coz there is a still a lot of room in improving the stock engines performance!!!

Lets look at this in another angle, if the stock engines performance is improved by say 5% by virtue of these experiment results (without a long term detrimental effect) and then one goes for engine mods worth another 15% gains, we are looking at a figure of 20% over all gains....

Now that picture would look good to anyone, wouldnt it??

finetuning · 16th January 2007, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I dont know how successful your projects are mate but I really have to appreciate you for your perseverence with these things...you almost encourage me to try the boric powder+acetone brew, really!

So if I have to try this on my OHC vtec, what should be composition considering 1 filling to be around 30litres with 10lits to be intank content?? Or do u suggest a cmplete drain out and complete refill??

Hi Wolf,

You can try adding 3 gms per ltr with 2.5 ml per ltr acetone.....no need to empty tank...count refilled ltrs & prepare mixture......if tank hold 40 ltr(including 10 ltr) then it must be 40 * 3 gms = 120 gms powder to be dissolved in 40 * 2.5 ml = 100ml acetone......prepare mixture in 1 ltr pet bottle with small amount of petrol........you can add this combo in fuel tank preferably wih funnel......

Expect smoothness of the drive......smoothness of engine running....no jerks while shifting gear and slight more power....

Enjoy....

Psycho · 18th January 2007, 14:10

This is why I said we do not know what you are up to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by finetuning

My Latest FE is 19

Hi all,

Just now my lpg tank is empty at whooping 880 km......up from my recent 770 km...........

Changes/experiments I made this time is adding boric acid powder in petrol tank in the ratio of 3 gm per ltr..........also I changed the T connection of my ozone treatment........will share photo soon...

I remember I used to get 10 to 12 in lpg & at time my tank was empty at just 350 km due to gas leakage at vapouriser end......

I expect this FE to be maintained without trouble in car.....

Enjoy....

Please read carefully:

"Just now my lpg tank is empty at whooping 880 km......up from my recent 770 km..........."

and the next statement

"Changes/experiments I made this time is adding boric acid powder in petrol tank in the ratio of 3 gm per ltr..........also I changed the T connection of my ozone treatment........will share photo soon..."

What can boric acid in petrol do when you run the car on LPG.

The next statement does make sense which can actually increase milage:

"I remember I used to get 10 to 12 in lpg & at time my tank was empty at just 350 km due to gas leakage at vapouriser end......"

Finetuning: No I do not want to discuss this

Mods: Please do not treat this as a personal attack as this is wrong information being shared which could affect other members cars, Yes I do also know he is not forcing it on anyone.

finetuning · 18th January 2007, 17:27

Dear psycho,

This is what seems to be the real question.......Now let me explain the way boroc acid particles work with fuels & engines.......

We need to understand how boric acid works irrespective of any fuel input once its being in the engine......

When I added small amount in petrol tank as to be expected it makes fine coating on the inner layers of fuel lines......& to all parts where this petrol flows including the combustion chamber......now as I understood this being only one time treatment lasting up to more then 10k km I expect fine microscopic layers of boric particles sticking to engine parts making them more friction less also removing carbon.....

I have more & more evidence using this stuff without any problem & passing same benefits....

Now naturally this effect is felt on lpg too as it also goes inside engine......if engine is by any means treated with boric powder then with even lpg it can pass on benefits....

Also when changing T connection of my ozon treatment also plays some role.....I cant tell right now which is effecting most......

I recently added this stuff in suzuki fiero F2 in engine & petrol tank as well......as expected the engine running so calm....its running cooler & is more responsive too.....there is a definite difference with the way accelerator pedal responding.....

Psycho,my intention & experiments are wrongly understood and interpreted by you........

Will you look at this link...

http://www.synergeticlubrication.com...cls%20bond.swf

Boron CLS Bond Technology - Frequently Asked Questions

Method to improve lubricity of low-sulfur... - Google Patents

Evergreen America

Enjoy...

Kaizer Sozay · 23rd February 2007, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by finetuning

Hi Wolf,
You can try adding 3 gms per ltr with 2.5 ml per ltr acetone.....no need to empty tank...count refilled ltrs & prepare mixture......if tank hold 40 ltr(including 10 ltr) then it must be 40 * 3 gms = 120 gms powder to be dissolved in 40 * 2.5 ml = 100ml acetone......prepare mixture in 1 ltr pet bottle with small amount of petrol........you can add this combo in fuel tank preferably wih funnel......
Expect smoothness of the drive......smoothness of engine running....no jerks while shifting gear and slight more power....
Enjoy....

Hey finetuning i currently add 2.5 ML acetone + 2.5 ML xylene & 0.8 ML 2T oil per litre petrol.
If i add Boric powder should i change this concotion?

I was thinking that i will mix the xylene & 2T seperately & the aetone & boric powder then put both the mixtures in the petrol Tank.

Need your inputs on this

Kaizer Sozay · 5th March 2007, 17:02

just looking for an update on if anyone has tried this

gd1418 · 9th March 2007, 21:36

I wish to report something that was observed today by me, when I took the Scorpio for service. I would like to mention that I had added boric acid to my regular concoction of acetone + 2T and had done two such treatments.

During the service when the diesel filter assembly was opened, I saw that practically the entire amount of boric acid that I had added was accumulated there and completely filtered out by the MICO Bosch filters that I use with some amount sticking to the filter louvres too. My mechanic attributed this to impure diesel sold at pumps as I did not tell him what it was...

What he mentioned and showed to me subsequently, had me thinking. He said that with continued use of the impure diesel the filters would have eventually clogged up and the diesel flow would be interrupted thus resulting in stalling of the engine.

It would not be out of place to mention that I also had added boric powder to engine oil and surprisingly the oil filter did not show any residue.

Now, in view of the above, I want to know if anyone else out here who has tried adding boric powder to fuel has experienced this?

And finetuning: what is your take on this?

finetuning · 9th March 2007, 23:05

Hi gd1418,

This powder remained undissolved hence trapped by fuel filter.....however not eintire % must have been trapped......even if little powder managed to pass into combustion chamber then its useful......in case of oil its different as within few minutes it starts getting churned & starts sticking to metal surface as soon as engine started.....in case of fuel tank its being heavier then fuel....if not dissolved then can accumulate at bottom.....may be with my car with the consistant use of acetone & xylene it must have dissolved......

AbhiJ · 22nd June 2008, 19:59

Hi tsk

I have been working in the rubber/polymer industry for a couple of years now and many of our customers required specialized O rings, seals and gaskets for chemical, fuel and high heat applications.

As far as the whole boric acid addition idea goes, I agree with you. It seems like a big risk, specially since one does not know anything about the long term effects of the same. I ll need to see some hard figures before I can convince myself to pour the stuff down my honda..

As far as my knowledge goes, most O rings, seals and Gaskets used inside modern vehicles are made of Nitrile or Viton (Fluoroelastomer). These two polymers are used simply because they are oil and fuel resistant.

And, both these three have EXCELLENT resistance to Boric Acid so Rubber O rings and seals etc should not create problems in this experiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Boron as a lubricant is well known and proven, and soon it may be used in engine oils by castrol etc., but the problem is that many rubbers esp the ones used in O-Rings are corroded by boric acid. No doubt here, its a chemical reaction and will take place. If your O-Ring material is not susceptible to boric acid you are lucky.

tsk1979 · 22nd June 2008, 21:46

Abhij, From what I read, long term exposure to acetone can corrode certain class of O rings. Ditto for Boric acid.
But many vehicles have Gaskets and O-Rings resistant to these materials, so most people will remain safe.
I was worried because most of the times we don't know what type of O ring is being used in cars.
For example,. after 1 lakh kms, today my indica's clutch was opened. The rubber seals etc., which are exposed only to gear oil were partially corroded.
Now if I had added some Boric acid or something to the gear oil, I don't know what it would have done.

AbhiJ · 23rd June 2008, 00:05

Agreed. Acetone can really hurt most rubber parts.

As far as Tata components go.. I am in Kolkata and know a couple of people who supply rubber parts to Tata..

Lets just say that the lesser we talk about the quality, the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Abhij, From what I read, long term exposure to acetone can corrode certain class of O rings. Ditto for Boric acid.
But many vehicles have Gaskets and O-Rings resistant to these materials, so most people will remain safe.
I was worried because most of the times we don't know what type of O ring is being used in cars.
For example,. after 1 lakh kms, today my indica's clutch was opened. The rubber seals etc., which are exposed only to gear oil were partially corroded.
Now if I had added some Boric acid or something to the gear oil, I don't know what it would have done.

sanjaymugur · 23rd June 2008, 15:18

BORON: A BETTER ALTERNATE FUEL

tsk1979 · 23rd June 2008, 15:23

I don't think we burn engine oil, so whether boron is a good fuel or not would not be of any help either in engine oil or Gear oil.

PAVAN KADAM · 23rd June 2008, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I don't think we burn engine oil, so whether boron is a good fuel or not would not be of any help either in engine oil or Gear oil.

We are talking about Boric Acid, The article is so clearly talking about BORON.
I've read about BORON and its useage in automotive industry in so many countries. But Boric Acid......?

FT what is the chemical combination of Boric Acid and BORON, if you dont know, pls let me know, i'll post it.

Guys these two are entirely different compounds.

15th January 2007, 21:57	#31
Psycho Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,043 Thanked: 110 Times View My Garage	Well i never did want to be person specific but when it comes to fuel all i can say one needs a lot more understanding of the chemical processes and the ignition flame front before saying it works. PS anyone can get a patent. I really want to stop discussing this over and over again as this keeps going on. Thank you i have said enough on this topic
	() Thanks

15th January 2007, 22:01	#32
The Wolf Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,118 Thanked: 71 Times	My neutral opinion... Psycho I understand where you are coming from however as far as I understand Finetuning never urges anyone to do what he is doing, so as long as its his car that he is experimenting with and enlightening us with the benefits(short term may be due to lack of long term evidence), we all should be happy n involved to see what comes out of his newer experiments... Now, look at me, Im damn fascinated with this mans knowledge, perseverance and desire to explore that world of unknown...Its finally up to us to feel insync with his school of though or overlook it. As far as I understand, Finetuning feels that all the rush with engine mods is secondary as far as performance gains are concerned coz there is a still a lot of room in improving the stock engines performance!!! Lets look at this in another angle, if the stock engines performance is improved by say 5% by virtue of these experiment results (without a long term detrimental effect) and then one goes for engine mods worth another 15% gains, we are looking at a figure of 20% over all gains.... Now that picture would look good to anyone, wouldnt it??
	() Thanks

18th January 2007, 17:27	#35
finetuning BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 394 Thanked: 13 Times	Dear psycho, This is what seems to be the real question.......Now let me explain the way boroc acid particles work with fuels & engines....... We need to understand how boric acid works irrespective of any fuel input once its being in the engine...... When I added small amount in petrol tank as to be expected it makes fine coating on the inner layers of fuel lines......& to all parts where this petrol flows including the combustion chamber......now as I understood this being only one time treatment lasting up to more then 10k km I expect fine microscopic layers of boric particles sticking to engine parts making them more friction less also removing carbon..... I have more & more evidence using this stuff without any problem & passing same benefits.... Now naturally this effect is felt on lpg too as it also goes inside engine......if engine is by any means treated with boric powder then with even lpg it can pass on benefits.... Also when changing T connection of my ozon treatment also plays some role.....I cant tell right now which is effecting most...... I recently added this stuff in suzuki fiero F2 in engine & petrol tank as well......as expected the engine running so calm....its running cooler & is more responsive too.....there is a definite difference with the way accelerator pedal responding..... Psycho,my intention & experiments are wrongly understood and interpreted by you........ Will you look at this link... http://www.synergeticlubrication.com...cls%20bond.swf Boron CLS Bond Technology - Frequently Asked Questions Method to improve lubricity of low-sulfur... - Google Patents Evergreen America Enjoy... Last edited by finetuning : 18th January 2007 at 17:29. Reason: Adding link
	() Thanks

5th March 2007, 17:02	#37
Kaizer Sozay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 333 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	just looking for an update on if anyone has tried this
	() Thanks

9th March 2007, 21:36	#38
gd1418 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,578 Thanked: 728 Times View My Garage	Adding boric acid in Diesel I wish to report something that was observed today by me, when I took the Scorpio for service. I would like to mention that I had added boric acid to my regular concoction of acetone + 2T and had done two such treatments. During the service when the diesel filter assembly was opened, I saw that practically the entire amount of boric acid that I had added was accumulated there and completely filtered out by the MICO Bosch filters that I use with some amount sticking to the filter louvres too. My mechanic attributed this to impure diesel sold at pumps as I did not tell him what it was... What he mentioned and showed to me subsequently, had me thinking. He said that with continued use of the impure diesel the filters would have eventually clogged up and the diesel flow would be interrupted thus resulting in stalling of the engine. It would not be out of place to mention that I also had added boric powder to engine oil and surprisingly the oil filter did not show any residue. Now, in view of the above, I want to know if anyone else out here who has tried adding boric powder to fuel has experienced this? And finetuning: what is your take on this? Last edited by gd1418 : 9th March 2007 at 21:37.
	() Thanks

9th March 2007, 23:05	#39
finetuning BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 394 Thanked: 13 Times	Hi gd1418, This powder remained undissolved hence trapped by fuel filter.....however not eintire % must have been trapped......even if little powder managed to pass into combustion chamber then its useful......in case of oil its different as within few minutes it starts getting churned & starts sticking to metal surface as soon as engine started.....in case of fuel tank its being heavier then fuel....if not dissolved then can accumulate at bottom.....may be with my car with the consistant use of acetone & xylene it must have dissolved......
	() Thanks

22nd June 2008, 21:46	#41
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,824 Times View My Garage	Abhij, From what I read, long term exposure to acetone can corrode certain class of O rings. Ditto for Boric acid. But many vehicles have Gaskets and O-Rings resistant to these materials, so most people will remain safe. I was worried because most of the times we don't know what type of O ring is being used in cars. For example,. after 1 lakh kms, today my indica's clutch was opened. The rubber seals etc., which are exposed only to gear oil were partially corroded. Now if I had added some Boric acid or something to the gear oil, I don't know what it would have done.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 15:18	#43
sanjaymugur BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 262 Thanked: 57 Times	BORON: A BETTER ALTERNATE FUEL
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 15:23	#44
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,824 Times View My Garage	I don't think we burn engine oil, so whether boron is a good fuel or not would not be of any help either in engine oil or Gear oil.
	() Thanks