[blacklist]

Hi All

I would like to take you all through my pathetic experience with TML over their miss-communication and poor customer care support.

I had purchased Tata Hexa this year which is due for its 3rd service in couple of months. I inquired about using my own preferred synthetic oil (Mobil Delvac 1 or Voltronic C+) , which is of TML recommended standard, grade and quality. However TML authorized service centre (Concorde, Peeragarhi, Delhi) discouraged me to use it, stating that my Hexa's default & extended warranty will become void.

When I raised the same query to TML CC team, I was delighted to hear back from Mr. Sohaib, Mr. Amit Sidana after 45 days of lead. However the TAT was not the only surprise here.
1. Both Mr. Sohaib and Mr. Amit refuted my request citing upon some Company & Dealer agreement where in dealer cant allow customer to use its own oil.
2. When I debated upon how company-dealer agreement binds customer in this, they obviously had no answer to it.
3. Mr. Amit Sidana even claimed that he can even give it in writing on Company's (TML) letter head stamped and signed, that if end user will use its own oil (even it is of recommended standards) then its warranty will be voided. The same when I requested to be shared, has obviously not been shared till now even post my multiple reminders.
4. Even post 5 days of follow up, no resolution had been shared by TML to my queries.
5. I can vouch that TML does not even value their premium customer a bit, as even post raising my request to Mr. Subhajit Roy and Mr. Mayank Parekh, no one even bothered to close the loop upto my satisfaction, leaving apart the resolution / sharing the "warranty void" document for clarification.

It's highly disappointing and surprising to see that a home grown company which is trying to revive hard has such a bad Customer Care support and employees who does not even value their customer a bit.

Regards

The snapshots of email responses are attached herewith:

[90Horses]

When it comes to warranty of an automobile, consumables like oil & filters, electrical wiring & service interval etc.. should be unchanged/adhered. It's the common norm, nothing new.

I own a Punto 90HP and I am pretty happy with Engine Oil provided by FASS. If TATA is so sure about the HEXA's performance with the engine oil that they provide, I wouldn't want to reason with them, they know better about their baby.

If you still want to use a different engine oil, sure you can by voiding your warranty.

[Kosfactor]

I am with you on the part where they have not responded to you properly despite many reminders and followup from your side. Have you tried twitter?

It would be interesting to see how Tata responds to this.

Now on the engine oil front, the hexa`s user manual gives you 4 choices in terms of oil brands, It is clear that they have done their testing with various brands and found these 4 to be the best in protecting their engine design.

As far as I know, oil companies can test only a limited number of engines , usually the most popular vehicle of a category or the most advanced engine of a category in their target market

Car manufacturers always know what is best for their engine.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by 90Horses

When it comes to warranty of an automobile, consumables like oil & filters, electrical wiring & service interval etc.. should be unchanged/adhered. It's the common norm, nothing new..

If it helps, TML gives you a choice of 4 engine oils, and also specifies API CI4+ 15w40 - for which there are many other oils available in the market. (Note - not CI4, CI4+, so double check on the can). The Exxon Mobil and HP Milcy Turbo Tech that they specify below are actually quite decent oils).

Try to see if they complain about it when it is specified in their own manual.

Once you're out of warranty, there's Mobil Delvac 1 and Amsoil Turbo Truck which are going to be far nicer (and yes, more expensive) oils for your Hexa.

[drmohitg]

I would also tend to side with the car maker in this case. As a customer you are right in choosing your oil, but at the same time cannot expect Tata to go around verifying the oil against their recommended standard, grade and quality. And when an error does occur, the customer will blame it on them. Wait till your warranty is over and then do as you like.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I would also tend to side with the car maker in this case. As a customer you are right in choosing your oil, but at the same time cannot expect Tata to go around verifying the oil against their recommended standard, grade and quality. And when an error does occur, the customer will blame it on them. Wait till your warranty is over and then do as you like.

API CI4+ is what is specified. There are plenty more brands of CI4+ on the market. And anyway, TML specifies a 20K kilometer OCI (oil change interval) with a caveat in their manual that if you do over 60% city driving, change at 10K kilometers.

Run the mineral oils above for say 5k kilometers before you evaluate what the oil feels like (rough rule of thumb is engine gruffness, drops in the oil level so you need to topup, etc). At that point, get your oil changed elsewhere to a 15w40 CI4+ of your choice.

As long as you're in warranty, don't get the 5w40 grades of HDEO, they're anyway a very expensive proposition when you're buying 6 litres worth, so an oil change will cost you 5k ++ just for the oil, instead of under 2k. And use a Tata OEM oil filter when you're changing outside. The same with an OEM air filter and cabin AC filter. Any auto parts store will gladly sell you this stuff.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Now on the engine oil front, the hexa`s user manual gives you 4 choices in terms of oil brands, It is clear that they have done their testing with various brands and found these 4 to be the best in protecting their engine design

They've established that a mineral 15w40 CI4+ grade oil is the best for their engine. And then worked out commercial / bulk purchase deals with 4 oil manufacturers that allow them to buy in bulk quantities (several 25 litre drums to a dealership) and resell it at a huge profit. A generic CI4+ oil is basically a generic CI4+ oil, with much the same range of TBN, NOACK etc levels. The only difference between brands is going to be proprietary additives packages for the more expensive oils.

[R2D2]

It is not possible for TM or other car mfr to verify the quality and authenticity of the oils supplied by customers. Therefore when the car is under warranty stick to the manufacturer prescribed oil from their dealers. Although technically you may be adding superior oil it opens up an excuse for them to void the warranty should there be any engine part failure that is attributed to the oil in use.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by R2D2

It is not possible for TM or other car mfr to verify the quality and authenticity of the oils supplied by customers. Therefore when the car is under warranty stick to the manufacturer prescribed oil from their dealers. Although technically you may be adding superior oil it opens up an excuse for them to void the warranty should there be any engine part failure that is attributed to the oil in use.

But let us just say that I'll be very surprised if they're able to tell one 15w40 CI4+ oil apart from another without a full chemical analysis. So, especially given the caveat in their manual about severe service, I'd say go change elsewhere after 6-7K or even 10K km, but stick to a good CI4+ 15w40.

Even if OP picks the very same brands (Exxon Mobil, HP Milcy Turbotech) he will surely get a much better price direct from an oil distributor than he will when dealer margins are added in.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by hserus

But let us just say that I'll be very surprised if they're able to tell one 15w40 CI4+ oil apart from another without a full chemical analysis. So, especially given the caveat in their manual about severe service, I'd say go change elsewhere after 6-7K or even 10K km, but stick to a good CI4+ 15w40.

They can make out if the oil used is from the dealer because it is mentioned in the service history and the parts/consumables invoices. And that's all they will go by.

We can obtain superior aftermarket oils but which manufacturer is open to logical reasoning? An engine warranty is IMHO very essential.

Even if OP picks the very same brands (Exxon Mobil, HP Milcy Turbotech) he will surely get a much better price direct from an oil distributor than he will when dealer margins are added in.

I'd rather spend that extra on the oil from the dealer only to prevent voiding the warranty. Also, the OP can enquire if there are TM recommended synthetic oils purchasable from the dealer in case he wants the best possible lubrication for the car once the running-in is over.

Just FYI - I have used after market synthetic oils (Shell Helix Ultra) post running in my cars. But I knew that I was taking a risk during the warranty. The dealers have always followed my instructions and simply marked the job card as "5W-40 oil supplied by customer". This practice of a remark on the job card continues to this day.

[NaXal]

Help me understand the basics

1. TATA makes Hexa (engine in that regards) not the oil
2. Exxon / Shell / Motul / HP / IOCL / Castrol, they are the companies who make motor oil. They do it according to the manufacturing standard and along with car maker's requirements.
3. TATA test their car with handful of oil vendors and find a right oil blend. They issue Certificate or write down the grade/viscosity along with that label of oil certification.

Why do a customer have to buy oil from dealer when or if he has the exact specified engine oil of his own preferred brand?

Sounds like TATA ships a vehicle with MRF Tyre, and if customer upgrades to Bridgestone or Michelin, that would void the warranty. Even if that Tyre is of same size and specs as mentioned by TATA.

I am giving an example with Ford about their Oil. They recommend 5w30 for TDCi. Not just any 5w30, but the ones which have Ford certificate or following standard, "WSS-M2C913-D". Most of the oil brands have their 5w30 offering but only a handful of oil vendor are selling 5w30 with WSS-M2C913-D standard.

Even I am also told by Ford dealer that I have to buy and use dealer given oil to save warranty. I didn't argue since couldn't find any oil in India meeting WSS-M2C913-D standard. But now when there is Mobil Super 3000 meeting the said standard, how can a dealer stop me using that oil or manufacture threaten me with violation of warranty?

Feels like blackmail to me.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by 90Horses

When it comes to warranty of an automobile, consumables like oil & filters, electrical wiring & service interval etc.. should be unchanged/adhered. It's the common norm, nothing new.

Definitely the standards and laid down minimum criteria needs to be adhered to at all times for a warranty to remain in force. And the OP very clearly stated that the oil will meet the same grade as has been suggested by Tata Motors in their manual. Where did he say anything about any arbitrary change that can harm the warranty conditions?

Originally Posted by 90Horses

If you still want to use a different engine oil, sure you can by voiding your warranty.

I really don't know whether you understand what you are saying.

Have you heard of a body known as CCI? Please do some research on this statutory body. What you are saying flies against the laid down guidelines and rules of The Competition Act 2002 of sovereign India. This is much similar to the Antitrust Laws in US.

Here is an example of what CCI did in the not too distant past...

On 25 August 2014, CCI imposed a fine of ₹2544 crores on 14 Indian car manufacturers for failure to provide branded spare parts and diagnostic tools to independent repairers, hampering their ability to repair and maintain certain car models. The companies fined were Maruti Suzuki, Mahindra & Mahindra, Tata Motors, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, Fiat, Ford, General Motors, Nissan, Hindustan Motors, Mercedes Benz and Skoda

Similarly, a company must suggest an equivalent grade or specification related to a spare, specifically on consumables, and let the customer decide on the make. Forcing a single brand will get deemed as uncompetitive. Have a look at your user manual if you want to. I am pretty sure it will not mention just a single brand of oil but will also have an equivalent grade that you can lookout for.

So there is no way Tata can say you need to buy the oil only from them to keep your warranty intact. They have in fact been forced now to even sell their proprietary car spares as OTC sale, outside of their service station.

[GrammarNazi]

As long as you're sticking to the oil specified in the manual, there should not be a issue.

IMO it should be enough if you just keep a receipt from the place where you get the oil changed - it should specify all details.

Tata can't distrust a customer to take care of his own car! If that is indeed the case, a customer who is hell bent on spoiling something will get the oil re-changed to his favourite brand after the change at ASC and blame Tata Motors for any issues - surely Tata won't be able to make out if it's the oil their ASC sold.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by R2D2

They can make out if the oil used is from the dealer because it is mentioned in the service history and the parts/consumables invoices. And that's all they will go by. .

What I'm saying is - the Hexa oil change interval is every 20K km. And recommends but not mandates changing every 10K km if you drive mostly in city traffic.

You'd generally have to be nuts, especially with higher city driving, to run a mineral diesel oil for 20k km, so change the TML recommended oil every 20k fine, but after 7-8k km, change the oil outside to another CI4+ 15w40 using a Tata genuine filter. And once you've run the car for another 12k, making 20k, go back to a Tata dealer and get your oil changed.

Originally Posted by NaXal

I am giving an example with Ford about their Oil. They recommend 5w30 for TDCi. Not just any 5w30, but the ones which have Ford certificate or following standard, "WSS-M2C913-D". Most of the oil brands have their 5w30 offering but only a handful of oil vendor are selling 5w30 with WSS-M2C913-D standard.

Even I am also told by Ford dealer that I have to buy and use dealer given oil to save warranty. I didn't argue since couldn't find any oil in India meeting WSS-M2C913-D standard.

Mobil Super 3000 X1 to be precise. WSS-M2C913-D is essentially an ACEA A5/B5 oil with extra zinc additive to pass a stringent chain wear test that Ford has specified for any oil used in their cars. So yes, I won't recommend using any random 5w30, or even A5/B5 5w30, in your Ford. Yes, I went through all this research not too long back. This is an oil that I won't particularly recommend for beyond 7.5-8K kilometers. And it isn't particularly better or worse than the OEM oil (Motorcraft) that Ford uses. So stick to the Ford specified oil and change it every 7.5 to 8k kilometers.

[ksameer1234]

I don't think Tata Motors disallows usage of parts / lubricants outside of recommended sources. It's just that the warranty on offer isn't unconditional. Among the terms of warranty is use of parts / lubricants from authorised sources. In fact, the email response does not even state that warranty will be void due to use of non-recommended oil but that it will show as a discrepancy at the time of extended warranty claim.

Now unless Tata Motors is hare-brained, they will not outright reject the warranty claim, but the onus will be on customer to prove that use of non-recommended oil does not hinder honoring of the warranty claim.

Honestly though, I would let Tata Motors decide whats best for the vehicle so long as they are willing to vouch for it (by the way of warranty). Outside of warranty, I'll do what I feel is the best since I am responsible for consequences.

[GrammarNazi]

Sad to see some people here are willing to allow a corporation to think for them, and assuming it's decision to be in the consumers best interest. Please don't be naive.

It's not just an engineering decision or some kind of rocket science that the oil type & interval is decided, it is also based on the viability of dealers to stock-up with the oil. Tata Motors' finances are tight and I guess they're probably going to try & squeeze every penny they can in their service.

If the Hexa is being used within city traffic for even 20% of the time, there's no doubt that the 20,000km interval for mineral oil change interval is just BAD.

So, please do pursue this & share if any clarifications are received.