Do premium fuels harm engines?

sankeerthreddy · 30th January 2007, 22:11

hi guys, i just came around a strange question,i recently went to a garage when my friend had his car painting work done,and the owner of the garage was talking to a man,saying tht some stuff of the engine got damaged as he was using the fuels like speed , Xtrapremium etc? so i wanted to know whether these fuels with high levels of octane damage the engine and whether we mess our vehicles in search of high performance?

theMAG · 30th January 2007, 22:48

Speed, during the time of its 1st release was known to seize a few engines - hence at the time the recommended was IOC Premium. All thats in the past now - and premium petrols these days work hard to optimize engine performance and efficiency.

Toyota doesnt recommend Premium diesel for its Innova - its known to create excess smoke and decrease in engine o/p. But thats due to Toyota detuning that diesel engine for higher-sulfur normal diesel

vigsom · 30th January 2007, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sankeerthreddy

owner of the garage was talking to a man,saying tht some stuff of the engine got damaged as he was using the fuels like speed , Xtrapremium etc? so i wanted to know whether these fuels with high levels of octane damage the engine and whether we mess our vehicles in search of high performance?

My experiences..

I had a '95 Esteem which had covered 75000 kms..started using X'Premium in it.Performance was up bu after a few hundred kms found teh car started consuming engine oil.This was evident with some minor soot formation in the tailpipe.Plugs remained clean,though.I switched back to normal fuel and saw that the rate of engine oil depletion had reduced within 2000 kms.I later sold the car (about two years ago) and the present owner says oil loss is zero now(odo 95000 kms).I can't figure it out excepy perhaps that the additives in premium fuel could have removed the carbon on the pistons/rings and that would have increased clearances.

I am using Speed in my Versa -clocked 35000 kms ; no oil loss and good performance.

sreenivass · 30th January 2007, 23:47

I keep switching between regular and IOC Extrapremium. When I use premium I feel the engine is running quiet and cold starts are better (marginally or just could be my perception). One observation not to my liking is with premium in my last tankful I thought cranking got harder (based on the sounds I hear) during cold starts.

carfreak · 31st January 2007, 12:02

the last time i gave my palio for service at rf motors,the authorised tata-fiat dealer,they advised against using premium fuels.i casually told the mechanic i used only speed,and he told me fiat does not recommend using 91-octane fuel for the palio,but to stick to the regular fuel.he said it could result in fuel pump damage!!

strangely,autocar india used speed petrol in their long-term palio 1.6 and they said the performance and FE improved after the shift to 91-octane.according to them,high compression engines run better with higher octane fuel.

anyway i switched back to the regular fuel now!!

raajks · 31st January 2007, 13:27

For Indian bikes including Pulsar 180 and Hero Honda Karizma. It is not recommeded to use high Octane fuels. (Speed, HP Premium ..)
The heat generated by these fuels are high and increases the carbon deposits on the engines. This can reduce engine life, if bikes are reved at high RPM constantly.

For cars, it would improve efficiency as the fuel heat and energy gets distributed and utilized. The efficieny would be evident from the C segment class cars.

Sam Kapasi · 31st January 2007, 13:52

A business associate in Bangalore recently had a problem with his Skoda 1.9TDi. The diesel pump had failed.

When he asked the service supervisor, he was told that it had mostly failed because of using premium diesel with additives. (He was always using Turbojet diesel). The service supervisor said that Skoda motor recommends you put only regualr diesel in the car. Apparently diesel with addditives tend to leave a small residue of additives causing gumming inside the pumps. (He said)

As you can imagine, my associate blew his top. Imagine paying more for fuel only to find out that your diesel pump (costing a cool 24K) has blown because of that.

As expected the Skoda dealership will not issue an official statement stating that as the cause of the failure.

I've just got a new diesel Verna and have decided to stick to chaalu diesel, after listening to this story. Maybe I can add some additives once in a while, like system G. Do you get system G for diesel?

yogi1771 · 31st January 2007, 14:19

yeah sam we get system G for diesel but its called system D not sure though about the name

rks · 31st January 2007, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

A business associate in Bangalore recently had a problem with his Skoda 1.9TDi. The diesel pump had failed.

When he asked the service supervisor, he was told that it had mostly failed because of using premium diesel with additives. (He was always using Turbojet diesel). The service supervisor said that Skoda motor recommends you put only regualr diesel in the car. Apparently diesel with addditives tend to leave a small residue of additives causing gumming inside the pumps. (He said)

As you can imagine, my associate blew his top. Imagine paying more for fuel only to find out that your diesel pump (costing a cool 24K) has blown because of that.

As expected the Skoda dealership will not issue an official statement stating that as the cause of the failure.

I wonder why not? If the pump failed due to gumming caused by the additives of the premium diesel, surely that can be easily estabilished by opening up the pump and analyzing the residue? Premium diesel should normally improve the engine performance/life in a high-performance car like Skoda, so it is a pity that they cannot come up with a fuel pump that can handle premium diesel.

Quote:

I've just got a new diesel Verna and have decided to stick to chaalu diesel, after listening to this story. Maybe I can add some additives once in a while, like system G. Do you get system G for diesel?

I have no idea, but I would suggest that you follow what Hyundai recommends for Verna and don't do anything else. If they recommend premium diesel, go for it because not only would that improve your engine performance/life, but also there is less chance of adulteration in these fuels (since the dealers are already getting a better price for it).

I have personally been using Speed petrol in my Santro for over 6 years now and I have had no problems. I think with the latest high-octane Speed (93?) the car's performance has improved. My only doubt is whether these additives can damage the catalytic converter at the exhaust. I haven't done an emission test for ages, but whenever I had done it the emissions were found to be within norms.

GTO · 31st January 2007, 14:21

Mercedes also strictly recommends against using premium diesel.

normally_crazy · 31st January 2007, 14:49

Skoda does recommend " Normal Diesel" only. And I have been (had rather) following this only. Only once did I tank up with premium diesel (masti hai na) , never felt any difference in the car's behaviour so back to Normal Diesel.

sreenivass · 31st January 2007, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by carfreak

the last time i gave my palio for service at rf motors,the authorised tata-fiat dealer,they advised against using premium fuels.i casually told the mechanic i used only speed,and he told me fiat does not recommend using 91-octane fuel for the palio,but to stick to the regular fuel.he said it could result in fuel pump damage!!

strangely,autocar india used speed petrol in their long-term palio 1.6 and they said the performance and FE improved after the shift to 91-octane.according to them,high compression engines run better with higher octane fuel.

anyway i switched back to the regular fuel now!!

People recommed 91 octane for compression ratios above 9 (or is it 9.5). For Palio and Petra 1.6 engines it is exactly 9.5. My workshop recommended using regular and they said it is ok to use. But seems like the manual says 87 octane should be used.

normally_crazy · 31st January 2007, 14:58

Forgot to add - Ford also recommends Normal Petrol (87 Octane) only for the Ikon. Have always been using Speed and in between used 93 Octane and 97 Octane too quite regularly, no issues. The car is running great after nearly 4.5 years.

cartech · 31st January 2007, 15:18

I have a 4 year corsa. GM also says not to use premium fuels. They advise to use normal unleaded petrol with IFTEX G additives. The Corsa manual also recomends this. Have been using IFTEX G from day one & no trouble at all. In fact couple of times when IFTEX G was not used milage was lower with some engine knocking. I feel instead of using premium fuel using normal fuel with additives like IFTEX may be better. At least you are sure that additives are there in the tank.

srishiva · 31st January 2007, 16:29

Using high octane petrol in lower compression engines is just a waste of money. As for the additives in premium fuels, they could be used once in a while. Its not necessary to use additives all the time. Having to tune the engine for normal octane petrol is one of the advantages for the car buyer

30th January 2007, 22:11	#1
sankeerthreddy BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: hyderabad Posts: 79 Thanked: 0 Times	Do premium fuels harm engines? hi guys, i just came around a strange question,i recently went to a garage when my friend had his car painting work done,and the owner of the garage was talking to a man,saying tht some stuff of the engine got damaged as he was using the fuels like speed , Xtrapremium etc? so i wanted to know whether these fuels with high levels of octane damage the engine and whether we mess our vehicles in search of high performance?
	() Thanks

30th January 2007, 22:48	#2
theMAG Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Avon, CT Posts: 7,217 Thanked: 1,807 Times View My Garage	Speed, during the time of its 1st release was known to seize a few engines - hence at the time the recommended was IOC Premium. All thats in the past now - and premium petrols these days work hard to optimize engine performance and efficiency. Toyota doesnt recommend Premium diesel for its Innova - its known to create excess smoke and decrease in engine o/p. But thats due to Toyota detuning that diesel engine for higher-sulfur normal diesel Last edited by theMAG : 30th January 2007 at 22:53.
	() Thanks

30th January 2007, 23:47	#4
sreenivass BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore India Posts: 932 Thanked: 44 Times View My Garage	I keep switching between regular and IOC Extrapremium. When I use premium I feel the engine is running quiet and cold starts are better (marginally or just could be my perception). One observation not to my liking is with premium in my last tankful I thought cranking got harder (based on the sounds I hear) during cold starts.
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 12:02	#5
carfreak BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Udupi Posts: 599 Thanked: 342 Times	the last time i gave my palio for service at rf motors,the authorised tata-fiat dealer,they advised against using premium fuels.i casually told the mechanic i used only speed,and he told me fiat does not recommend using 91-octane fuel for the palio,but to stick to the regular fuel.he said it could result in fuel pump damage!! strangely,autocar india used speed petrol in their long-term palio 1.6 and they said the performance and FE improved after the shift to 91-octane.according to them,high compression engines run better with higher octane fuel. anyway i switched back to the regular fuel now!!
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 13:27	#6
raajks BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: BLR Posts: 578 Thanked: 119 Times View My Garage	For Indian bikes including Pulsar 180 and Hero Honda Karizma. It is not recommeded to use high Octane fuels. (Speed, HP Premium ..) The heat generated by these fuels are high and increases the carbon deposits on the engines. This can reduce engine life, if bikes are reved at high RPM constantly. For cars, it would improve efficiency as the fuel heat and energy gets distributed and utilized. The efficieny would be evident from the C segment class cars.
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 13:52	#7
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	A business associate in Bangalore recently had a problem with his Skoda 1.9TDi. The diesel pump had failed. When he asked the service supervisor, he was told that it had mostly failed because of using premium diesel with additives. (He was always using Turbojet diesel). The service supervisor said that Skoda motor recommends you put only regualr diesel in the car. Apparently diesel with addditives tend to leave a small residue of additives causing gumming inside the pumps. (He said) As you can imagine, my associate blew his top. Imagine paying more for fuel only to find out that your diesel pump (costing a cool 24K) has blown because of that. As expected the Skoda dealership will not issue an official statement stating that as the cause of the failure. I've just got a new diesel Verna and have decided to stick to chaalu diesel, after listening to this story. Maybe I can add some additives once in a while, like system G. Do you get system G for diesel?
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 14:19	#8
yogi1771 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 697 Thanked: 15 Times	yeah sam we get system G for diesel but its called system D not sure though about the name
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 14:21	#10
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,497 Thanked: 300,309 Times View My Garage	Mercedes also strictly recommends against using premium diesel.
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 14:49	#11
normally_crazy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,369 Thanked: 528 Times View My Garage	Skoda does recommend " Normal Diesel" only. And I have been (had rather) following this only. Only once did I tank up with premium diesel (masti hai na) , never felt any difference in the car's behaviour so back to Normal Diesel.
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 14:58	#13
normally_crazy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,369 Thanked: 528 Times View My Garage	Forgot to add - Ford also recommends Normal Petrol (87 Octane) only for the Ikon. Have always been using Speed and in between used 93 Octane and 97 Octane too quite regularly, no issues. The car is running great after nearly 4.5 years.
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 15:18	#14
cartech BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 198 Thanked: Once	I have a 4 year corsa. GM also says not to use premium fuels. They advise to use normal unleaded petrol with IFTEX G additives. The Corsa manual also recomends this. Have been using IFTEX G from day one & no trouble at all. In fact couple of times when IFTEX G was not used milage was lower with some engine knocking. I feel instead of using premium fuel using normal fuel with additives like IFTEX may be better. At least you are sure that additives are there in the tank.
	() Thanks

31st January 2007, 16:29	#15
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	Using high octane petrol in lower compression engines is just a waste of money. As for the additives in premium fuels, they could be used once in a while. Its not necessary to use additives all the time. Having to tune the engine for normal octane petrol is one of the advantages for the car buyer
	() Thanks