Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th May 2019, 11:12   #1
BHPian
 
tilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada / B'lore
Posts: 326
Thanked: 667 Times
Default VW Jetta: Hill-Hold works only intermittently

2015 Jetta TDI DSG Highline

This car has hill-hold assist which I believe is supposed to hold the car on an upward incline for about 3 seconds.

The issue is, it works intermittently. Sometimes it works perfectly, sometimes the car rolls back a little. I have been complaining about this since August 2018.

The frustrating point in my case is that it never seems to misbehave when trying to replicate the issue with VW service people on board - it occurs only when they’re not there in the car.

Well, actually it did happen a couple of times with them on board, but they refuse to accept that they observed it.

They also tell me that “it only rolled back very slightly, and that’s how it’s supposed to behave”; and “hill-hold only works when you shift from neutral to Drive, and not when coming to a complete stop without shifting to Neutral”.

To their credit, the VW service centre did try speaking with VW India’s senior tech folks at the factory; but the tech folks say that unless there is a fault code there is nothing they can do. And there is no fault code!

I did try to shoot a video of when this happens, but the video only shows a slight roll-back and they’re unwilling to accept that the video shows any rollback.

Any ideas on what else I could do to try and get them to do some trouble-shooting without fault codes?

The car is completely stock, no mods of any kind anywhere other than using a spare fuse to connect a dash cam.

Thank you and cheers
tilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2019, 15:20   #2
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 12,900
Thanked: 14,150 Times
Default re: VW Jetta: Hill-Hold works only intermittently

My take is

1: The sensor which detects an incline is kaput or
2: The motors / holding device which grips the brake disks might have a connectivity issue or the motor is failing

Am not sure re: point 2 on how the Hill Holder works. I applied the logic of electric handbrakes, the motors within these which bite the disc usually fail after lots of mud and water corrodes and wears the motor out. Happens to a lot of Passats.
ajmat is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2019, 16:57   #3
Newbie
 
mpp19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 19
Thanked: 26 Times
Default re: VW Jetta: Hill-Hold works only intermittently

Seems to be a typical VW dealer's behaviour, unfortunately, too much reliance on the software does not help either.

I had some issue (not similar) with my Vento, it used to make some noise (not always but at times) when running on 2nd or 3rd gear and I had to take it to the service centre for 3-4 times. Each time they would cut me down citing no warnings/fault codes displayed or they could not hear/notice any noise in their test drives, but I didn't give up.

Finally, it was thanks to a wonderful service person, who in one of the test drives agreed that there is some noise made and it turned out to be some fault with the front passenger seat positioning. And then it was an easy fix.

So, don't give up and keep persisting and I am surprised how can they deny the video evidence. Have you tried/tested in one of their test-drive cars to see if something similar happens?
mpp19 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2019, 11:36   #4
BHPian
 
tilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada / B'lore
Posts: 326
Thanked: 667 Times
Default re: VW Jetta: Hill-Hold works only intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
My take is

1: The sensor which detects an incline is kaput or
2: The motors / holding device which grips the brake disks might have a connectivity issue or the motor is failing

Am not sure re: point 2 on how the Hill Holder works. I applied the logic of electric handbrakes, the motors within these which bite the disc usually fail after lots of mud and water corrodes and wears the motor out. Happens to a lot of Passats.
Thank you Ajmat. I shall ask them to check the motor. Hill hold apparently applies the rear brakes for 3 seconds to give the driver enough time to move the foot from the brake to the accelerator. It is somehow part of the ABS system in the car. I think what it means that it is part of the ABS portion of the software.

BTW, if the incline sensor is kaput, I am guessing it should show a fault code, no? The main problem here is that there are no fault codes at all!

They did update some software now after I c0omplained, but that has to deal with the DSG portion and not the ABS portion.

According to them, if they have to replace the ABS system it would cost them 1.5 lakhs; and I am of the opinion that they do not want to eat this cost under warranty. BTW, this is the Rajaji Nagar service centre I am talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp19 View Post
Seems to be a typical VW dealer's behaviour, unfortunately, too much reliance on the software does not help either.

I had some issue (not similar) with my Vento, it used to make some noise (not always but at times) when running on 2nd or 3rd gear and I had to take it to the service centre for 3-4 times. Each time they would cut me down citing no warnings/fault codes displayed or they could not hear/notice any noise in their test drives, but I didn't give up.

Finally, it was thanks to a wonderful service person, who in one of the test drives agreed that there is some noise made and it turned out to be some fault with the front passenger seat positioning. And then it was an easy fix.

So, don't give up and keep persisting and I am surprised how can they deny the video evidence. Have you tried/tested in one of their test-drive cars to see if something similar happens?
Thanks mpp19. I am not giving up. The video evidence is not that obvious, you need to look carefully to spot the roll-back.


I just got a call from Rajaji Nagar saying that a senior tech from Pune is visiting next week and that they would like me to bring the car over to show the tech and see if the issue can be replicated. Keeping my fingers crossed and praying fervently that the problem does crop up!

Thanks again and cheers

Last edited by tilt : 18th May 2019 at 11:37. Reason: Added the bit about the sensor and fault codes.
tilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2019, 10:45   #5
BHPian
 
Flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: KL 02
Posts: 448
Thanked: 1,114 Times
Default re: VW Jetta: Hill-Hold works only intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by tilt View Post
2015 Jetta TDI DSG Highline
This car has hill-hold assist which I believe is supposed to hold the car on an upward incline for about 3 seconds.
The issue is, it works intermittently. Sometimes it works perfectly, sometimes the car rolls back a little. I have been complaining about this since August 2018.
Any ideas on what else I could do to try and get them to do some trouble-shooting without fault codes?
The car is completely stock, no mods of any kind anywhere other than using a spare fuse to connect a dash cam.
Thank you and cheers
It might be a problem with the ABS sensor.

Im encountering the same problem in my A3. But my vehicle showed error code for ABS. The SA said Hill Hold & Brake Assist wont work if any of the ABS sensor is not working properly. After checking, they found one of the four ABS sensors faulty and they have agreed to replace under warranty. One sensor costs around 15k rupees. So try checking if the ABS sensors in your car are in proper working condition.

Quote:
I have been complaining about this since August 2018.

The frustrating point in my case is that it never seems to misbehave when trying to replicate the issue with VW service people on board - it occurs only when they’re not there in the car.

Well, actually it did happen a couple of times with them on board, but they refuse to accept that they observed it.
I also encountered this first in 2018 July. But then car will show the error intermittently only, and the error wouldn't appear while at service center. So the technicians refused to accept that there is actually any fault. Quoting my post then on TBHP then on the same issue below. After almost a year they have finally accepted to change the sensor under warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
- ESC/ABS fault warning message appeared twice on MID.
This issue is due to the fault with one or more of the four sensors for ABS. The SA mentioned that many A3 & Q3's are now coming in with this problem since the heavy monsoon started in Kerala. The problem occurs due to moisture and dirt getting accumulated on the sensors. The SA assured to replace the faulty sensor under warranty.

But with my car they were not able to find the faulty sensor since the error is not always present. They cleaned all four sensors and did some simulation to find the faulty sensor but in vain.

They said they need the car with them for an uncertain period (that is till the fault reappears) to find and replace the faulty sensor. But I refused to give the car as I need it in the coming weeks. The SA confirmed to me that there is no safety issue and it's totally safe to use the car now and I can bring back the car if the issue appears again.

Today morning it reappeared. The MID showed two errors.
1. ESC / ABS fault.
2. Hill hold assist unavailable.

It appears for few minutes only and then disappears. It doesn't come when the car is in the workshop. Does any other A3/Q3 owners face similar issues?

Last edited by Flyer : 19th May 2019 at 11:10.
Flyer is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2019, 11:25   #6
BHPian
 
tilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada / B'lore
Posts: 326
Thanked: 667 Times
Default re: VW Jetta: Hill-Hold works only intermittently

Thank you, Flyer. They said they had checked the sensors and that they could find nothing wrong with them (just like in your case); and refused to change anything citing the high cost to replace.

Like I said above, some tech from Pune is expected to visit this week. I hope I get to demonstrate the issue to him.

I shall keep you folks posted as to what happens.

Thanks and cheers
tilt is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Intermittently Silent Horn nura Technical Stuff 51 23rd December 2018 10:18
Air-con works intermittently biyer Technical Stuff 13 16th October 2017 13:23
Engine "drags" intermittently namit Technical Stuff 48 19th June 2015 18:03
Air Recirculator intermittently switches off in Polo TDI layndrivr Technical Stuff 4 19th May 2011 18:53
Help my computer screen goes pink intermittently rahul_intlad Gadgets, Computers & Software 17 17th July 2007 14:01


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:32.

Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks