Safari DICOR: which Air Filter version is new

Rahulk76 · 15th February 2007, 23:08

Raj
Coming back to the AirFilter Stuff... I remember you telling that at TVS -Lucas center, it was suggested that over the RPM of 2000, engine wasnt getting as much air as it should, therefore the reason of black unburnt smoke.
Eg. On Standing, rev the engine to over 2K RPM and see the service indicator RED band coming down, which indicates that engine is getting choked and not getting enough air as it should.

Have you by any chance checked this on Safari 2007 Model?

rajismine · 16th February 2007, 12:08

ZERO. All under warranty. They dare not charge for it till the car is under warranty.

Go and directly meet the head of service centre and tell/ show him the smoke.

Would be good if you can take a print of this whole thread and show him. He would be convinced I am sure and would help you.

Regards

rajismine · 16th February 2007, 12:14

Yes. Over 2000 rpm you will see red band coming down

I did not check this factor in 2007 Safari as the main issue was smoking and it was not smoking AT ALL...

Rahulk76 · 18th February 2007, 13:46

Allright the time has come to uncover the culprit

& the culprit is the new lumax airfilter paper element....(in my case) it is not passing the required air as much as required by the engine when over 1800+ RPM. I consulted with the workshop and they have confirmed that this might be really the case and will take it up with Tata and Lumax.

It seems that its not letting pass the air when required and as a result the engine is running with more fuel and less air

Workshop has called in my Dicor to replace the airfilter free of cost..and its my guess that things will drastically improve after that

More to come...

rajismine · 19th February 2007, 15:49

But have these guys upgraded the air filter again recently

Asking this as if it was the issue, then why dont the new safari's smoke.

I dont think they changed the air filter very recently so i doubt if it is the actual culprit...

Rahulk76 · 19th February 2007, 17:08

hmm... too true.. i havent seen the new safari but will have a look when i get a chance... i dont have a damn clue on this....

Steer..any comments

Rahulk76 · 19th February 2007, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajismine

Yes. Over 2000 rpm you will see red band coming down

I did not check this factor in 2007 Safari as the main issue was smoking and it was not smoking AT ALL...

By any chance do these 2K7 models have air mass flow meter also ....

rajismine · 20th February 2007, 10:54

what is a Air Mass Flow Meter. If you can guide me, I will chk it out with my dealer right away....

Rahulk76 · 20th February 2007, 16:02

i guess u need to check the 2007 dicor and the engine specs along with the sensors they might have added in the same,

MAF sensor sees the density of the air coming in and passes the signal to ecu to caliberate the exact amount of fuel to be sent into the ignition chamber.

i believe that thats what they have done in 2007 dicor as per the workshop

rajismine · 22nd February 2007, 10:42

Hey,

can you tell me where is this MAF sensor placed? I think we do have this sensor....just need to confirm.

rajismine · 22nd February 2007, 17:47

Guys,

just came back from TATA Service centre after an EXTREMELY DETAILED checkup and discussion.

First the Outcome: NO SMOKE AT ALL

What was done:

DISCUSSIONS:
1.) My car has a MAF sensor. In fact all Safari DICORs have MAF sensor. Its bosch make in all versions.
2.) There were three versions of ECU for Safari: B01, C01(Intermediate) and D01. B01 had smoke issue but was environment friendly. I have D01 which is the latest but the line between Conformance and Non Conformance to pollution standars is very thin in D01.
3.) I have Progressive EGR valve however 2007 safari is coming with only On/Off EGR. This has been done to reduce costs as the latter is cheaper. There is one problem with progressive though that there are more chances of a failure than On/Off.

CHECKUP:
1.) Sedimenter checked: status OK
2.) Intercooler checked: Status OK
3.) Airfilter checked: took out one from Feb 2007 safari and installed in my car. immediately the smoke reduced
4.) All valves, FPI, EGR, Filters checked with software both in car standing and running condition.
5.) ECU calibration checked

OUTCOME: As i said, the 2007 safari filter i guess clicked and there is no smoke now.

Desert fox · 23rd February 2007, 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajismine

3.) I have Progressive EGR valve however 2007 safari is coming with only On/Off EGR. This has been done to reduce costs as the latter is cheaper. There is one problem with progressive though that there are more chances of a failure than On/Off.

Kind attention:Steeroid sir!

rajismine · 23rd February 2007, 11:11

Hey Desert Fox. This is what I was told by Lucas TVS guys who represnt Delphi.

Please let me know if you guys feel it is not correct. I was told that a progressive EGR has more chances of failure as even small carbon particles may screw it up which does not happen in On/Off.

On/Off is also cheaper and might also reduce gurantee replacement costs for TATAs as it does not malfunction.

However according to the guy, if the car is maintained well, progressive EGR would prove to be much much better than on/off as it takes into consideration the driving style....

Desert fox · 23rd February 2007, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by rajismine

Hey Desert Fox. This is what I was told by Lucas TVS guys who represnt Delphi.

Please let me know if you guys feel it is not correct. I was told that a progressive EGR has more chances of failure as even small carbon particles may screw it up which does not happen in On/Off.

On/Off is also cheaper and might also reduce gurantee replacement costs for TATAs as it does not malfunction.

However according to the guy, if the car is maintained well, progressive EGR would prove to be much much better than on/off as it takes into consideration the driving style....

No my friend,you are absolutely right.refer steeroids post on page one where he says i said i think it is crap!

What the dealer has said is partly true and it will not malfunction.

Iam sorry,you have taken so much trouble and fished out information which is not usually accesible to industry outsiders for the benefit of People like us,i should have been a little more responsible than just to shoot of a post,which is a referral point towards a conversation between me and Steeroid-My humble apologies Raj.

dicorex4x4 · 23rd February 2007, 16:01

I haven't checked in great detail. My January 07 DiCOR doesn't smoke under gentle acceleration but does smoke under heavy acceleration. This is not noticeable in the daytime but is visible in the right ORVM at night in the light of headlamps from behind.

15th February 2007, 23:08	#16
Rahulk76 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 1,149 Thanked: 235 Times	Raj Coming back to the AirFilter Stuff... I remember you telling that at TVS -Lucas center, it was suggested that over the RPM of 2000, engine wasnt getting as much air as it should, therefore the reason of black unburnt smoke. Eg. On Standing, rev the engine to over 2K RPM and see the service indicator RED band coming down, which indicates that engine is getting choked and not getting enough air as it should. Have you by any chance checked this on Safari 2007 Model?
	() Thanks

16th February 2007, 12:08	#17
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	ZERO. All under warranty. They dare not charge for it till the car is under warranty. Go and directly meet the head of service centre and tell/ show him the smoke. Would be good if you can take a print of this whole thread and show him. He would be convinced I am sure and would help you. Regards
	() Thanks

16th February 2007, 12:14	#18
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	Yes. Over 2000 rpm you will see red band coming down I did not check this factor in 2007 Safari as the main issue was smoking and it was not smoking AT ALL...
	() Thanks

18th February 2007, 13:46	#19
Rahulk76 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 1,149 Thanked: 235 Times	Allright the time has come to uncover the culprit & the culprit is the new lumax airfilter paper element....(in my case) it is not passing the required air as much as required by the engine when over 1800+ RPM. I consulted with the workshop and they have confirmed that this might be really the case and will take it up with Tata and Lumax. It seems that its not letting pass the air when required and as a result the engine is running with more fuel and less air Workshop has called in my Dicor to replace the airfilter free of cost..and its my guess that things will drastically improve after that More to come... Last edited by Rahulk76 : 18th February 2007 at 13:47.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 15:49	#20
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	But have these guys upgraded the air filter again recently Asking this as if it was the issue, then why dont the new safari's smoke. I dont think they changed the air filter very recently so i doubt if it is the actual culprit...
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 17:08	#21
Rahulk76 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 1,149 Thanked: 235 Times	hmm... too true.. i havent seen the new safari but will have a look when i get a chance... i dont have a damn clue on this.... Steer..any comments
	() Thanks

20th February 2007, 10:54	#23
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	what is a Air Mass Flow Meter. If you can guide me, I will chk it out with my dealer right away....
	() Thanks

20th February 2007, 16:02	#24
Rahulk76 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 1,149 Thanked: 235 Times	i guess u need to check the 2007 dicor and the engine specs along with the sensors they might have added in the same, MAF sensor sees the density of the air coming in and passes the signal to ecu to caliberate the exact amount of fuel to be sent into the ignition chamber. i believe that thats what they have done in 2007 dicor as per the workshop
	() Thanks

22nd February 2007, 10:42	#25
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	Hey, can you tell me where is this MAF sensor placed? I think we do have this sensor....just need to confirm.
	() Thanks

22nd February 2007, 17:47	#26
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	Guys, just came back from TATA Service centre after an EXTREMELY DETAILED checkup and discussion. First the Outcome: NO SMOKE AT ALL What was done: DISCUSSIONS: 1.) My car has a MAF sensor. In fact all Safari DICORs have MAF sensor. Its bosch make in all versions. 2.) There were three versions of ECU for Safari: B01, C01(Intermediate) and D01. B01 had smoke issue but was environment friendly. I have D01 which is the latest but the line between Conformance and Non Conformance to pollution standars is very thin in D01. 3.) I have Progressive EGR valve however 2007 safari is coming with only On/Off EGR. This has been done to reduce costs as the latter is cheaper. There is one problem with progressive though that there are more chances of a failure than On/Off. CHECKUP: 1.) Sedimenter checked: status OK 2.) Intercooler checked: Status OK 3.) Airfilter checked: took out one from Feb 2007 safari and installed in my car. immediately the smoke reduced 4.) All valves, FPI, EGR, Filters checked with software both in car standing and running condition. 5.) ECU calibration checked OUTCOME: As i said, the 2007 safari filter i guess clicked and there is no smoke now.
	() Thanks

23rd February 2007, 11:11	#28
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	Hey Desert Fox. This is what I was told by Lucas TVS guys who represnt Delphi. Please let me know if you guys feel it is not correct. I was told that a progressive EGR has more chances of failure as even small carbon particles may screw it up which does not happen in On/Off. On/Off is also cheaper and might also reduce gurantee replacement costs for TATAs as it does not malfunction. However according to the guy, if the car is maintained well, progressive EGR would prove to be much much better than on/off as it takes into consideration the driving style....
	() Thanks

23rd February 2007, 16:01	#30
dicorex4x4 BANNED Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: TN/AP/KA Posts: 181 Thanked: 0 Times	I haven't checked in great detail. My January 07 DiCOR doesn't smoke under gentle acceleration but does smoke under heavy acceleration. This is not noticeable in the daytime but is visible in the right ORVM at night in the light of headlamps from behind.
	() Thanks