[sagarpadaki]

ABS is a part of a critical component of brakes and as such it must be made fail safe with adequate redundancy.

What i cannot understand is that , why the brake pedal got rock hard? Naveen,maybe you should get the whole system flushed with new brake fluid. The key here is to flush and not just bleed. You should ensure that there is no old brake fluid in the system. One way to ensure this is to use a brake fluid whose color is different from the existing one. Like say Bosch or TVS girling have brake fluid that is clear compared to Hyundai one which is red. With this you can easily find out that the old fluid is flushed when you see the new color fluid coming out.

The ABS module used in Creta is unchanged since its launch. Check compatibility in the link below. The unit is shared across all engine variants of creta. So a failure of ABS sensor in the facelift creta may also result in similar behavior


https://boodmo.com/catalog/part-abs_assy-33582049/

[vishnurp99]

Creta's braking/high speed Composure was never confidence inspiring in comparison to other cars in the segment like Scross and duster. However this is surprising for a car which sells so much. Hyundai clearly takes the market for granted. Hoping that this is at least fixed for the facelift.

Hyundai is good at managing media. Hence you would expect this kind of news to come out only through a team-bhp.

[padmrajravi]

I think Hyundai's approach here will be to let the news die out in teambhp itself. They have control over other media and can hush up the news. What is the duration of a new item staying in TeamBHP homepage? I think it is about a week. Wait out that period and Hyundai is safe. They enjoy that kind of brand recall, and people will forget all about these as one off instances. If they issue a statement, it will only help the news stay in limelight.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

A
The ABS module used in Creta is unchanged since its launch. Check compatibility in the link below. The unit is shared across all engine variants of creta. So a failure of ABS sensor in the facelift creta may also result in similar behavior

https://boodmo.com/catalog/part-abs_assy-33582049/

This is an important piece of information - thanks for sharing this. This kind of provides an indication that the issue is Not Resolved with the Facelift. We may need to wait and see if the 2020 Creta changes this.

Also do you know if Seltos also shares the same part/component? Is there anyway to check?

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

This is an important piece of information - thanks for sharing this. This kind of provides an indication that the issue is Not Resolved with the Facelift. We may need to wait and see if the 2020 Creta changes this.

Also do you know if Seltos also shares the same part/component? Is there anyway to check?

As of now one needs to get the part number from KIA service or wait the boodmo to list KIA Seltos in their repository and then cross verify.

My gut feeling says it will be a different part than that of creta.

[AkMar]

My first reaction on this thread was

I had driven my Xcent with ABS light on for some time before replacing rear sensors which were faulty. What if this happened to me Day by day I have begun to lose trust in Hyundai as a manufacturer. It started with my unreliable xcent. They do make best in class interiors but that is of little use with mechanical issues!

[naveen.raju]

Thank you all for your concern and replies here. Too many messages, so not quoting everyone.

What exactly happened (since many pointed out many interpretations)
Since this issue repeated after the accident, I noticed that during the initial application the brake pedal didn't budge at all. When I re-applied, there was this loud grinding noise (a lot louder than normal instances when the ABS kicks in) and the braking performance was seriously compromised. Sometimes, it comes to a sudden halt or else absolutely no brakes at all. And the amount of pressure needed to apply was also really high.

Here are some thoughts/questions from my end:

1) Two ABS sensors failed and the cost for replacing both - around 14000. Extended warranty expired few months back so had to pay for this. Not to mention the expenses to repair the other car (A Star) and the tension.
2) If two sensors were out, how come there was no indication on the instrument cluster? The warning came once and went off in about 30 seconds. The accident happened few days after this. If it's permanently conked off, shouldn't the warning permanently stay? And did both sensors conk off at the same time?
3) I did check the entire system for faults (software and mechanical). Checked the booster pump as well and everything was in order except for those two ABS sensors.
4) It was an HASS who identified this issue and reported to Hyundai. As expected the feedback from Hyundai was a cold one. Absolutely no recall, calls to customers etc. Heck, I don't even get a feedback call from their main office now. Maruti, Ford used to call me after each service (centralized call center).
5) We currently have 3 Hyundai cars at home and the initial 3 years were horrible. Even after multiple complaints, the overall experience was pathetic to say the least(Popular Hyundai - I do have a thread about them - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...s-3-years.html (Popular Hyundai, Vyttila - Pathetic service continues for 3 years!)). Some top notch dude from Hyundai called them and gave an earful and that was it. I didn't get any call apologizing or asking my feedback from the head office. Only recently, I started giving to another dealer and the experience there was fantastic.
6) Lucky that this happened in b2b traffic and was at a crawling pace. Had it been a pedestrian at moderate speed, the scene would have been entirely different. I would have been famous, in the wrong sense.
7) Like many had pointed out, many cars have fail-safe measures in place. Why don't Hyundai add this?
8) The main thing that I really regret is the lack of video. It would have captured the entire episode and shown everybody the horrifying moment. Unfortunately, I had taken out the memory card to copy some videos and forgot to put it back in the dash cam. Biggest mistake!
9) It was my wife who drove back the car after the repairs and she was literally scared to drive it back. Although she used to drive my car alone, she's now stopped it. Only when am there, she takes my car. She's lost all confidence. She's now constantly checks her i10's instrument cluster for any lights.

Will I ever buy/recommend Hyundai?
Although I just love Creta's highway performance, comfort and efficiency - I WILL NEVER BUY/RECOMMEND A CAR FROM HYUNDAI AGAIN! I love big, brawny SUVS and Hyundai even if you launch the Palisade for Creta money, I wouldn't buy it. Prove that you take care of customers even after selling your cars, then I will consider it (I know that will never happen, but just for the sake ). Please don't blame the HASS. Some are doing their best here like the one I currently go to.

What Hyundai needs to do immediately?
1) You need to TALK to customers, get their feedback and improve on it rather than hoping that the market will capture all your products. Yes, you are bringing in vehicles as per the market but have you ever heard the customers need for example, a fully loaded diesel automatic? That's just example. Yes, it's hard to talk to each and every customer, but you take the pain of conducting market survey/preview but that's just a proper eyewash. I experienced that first hand (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4393791 (The next-gen Hyundai Santro)).
2) Once the vehicle is sold, you simply pass the burden to the dealers/HASS. Yes, I understand it's more of their responsibility but as a manufacturer, you need to step in and act accordingly. I simply don't see that happening now (refer point 5 - Of course, you had to intervene there since that issue happened for 3 consecutive years. But do you ever follow up with the customer, hear their feedback after incident?).

I am pretty much sure that this thread might come to your attention, but sure nothing new or change will happen. Hyundai - wake up, things should change(For god's sake, you are India's second best car manufacturer). This is not a rant, this is the concern of many.

[N4Nikunj]

Dear Naveen,

Sorry for the accident and I'm glad that all the occupants in both cars are safe.

As for me, I drive two cars on a regular basis A Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDI+ (2017) and A Hyundai Grand i10 Asta 1.2P (2015).

Brakes have always been an issue with Grand i10. It behaves like this If you have to brake suddenly you press the brake pedal fully so ABS kicks in too early and the car starts reducing speeds still if you feel that you need to stop earlier you release the pedal slightly and press again fully you will feel the positive difference in braking power.

Now another scenario you are traveling on an undivided road at 70 km/h for quite some time and you need to come to a complete stop you will always feel that something is bad with brakes and car is taking too much time and distance to stop now after this as a bhpian you test brakes again immediately it will work as expected and you nullify the possibility of bad brakes and continue your drive.

I particularly drive G-i10 and Ertiga on a regular basis, In Ertiga at 80-90 km/h if you will dab the brake pedal slightly car almost immediately starts responding to it and in i10 even though it is a small car and brake pads in top-notch condition on has to press the pedal firmly to feel the braking.

I always felt the braking behavior of G-i10 even with ABS is not up to the mark. One more thing is that brake pedal isn't progressive like in the Ertiga or any other Non-Hyundai car.

Above mentioned experience is my personal experience. One can always correct me if required.

[Nonstop-driver]

I drive a 2017 Creta SX AT and have done about 30k kms with it. Although I mostly drive within NCR, I've taken it often to Chandigarh and Jaipur highways where I never faced this issue. I remember only 2 incidents where I can relate with this thread:

1. While driving somewhere in Rajasthan, there was some fine sand on the road and while brakes were applied, the pedal shuddered and kicked back strongly. The vehicle glided instead of stopping and I had to swerve hard to avoid a collision. No lights or anything on the console.

2. On the same trip, the brakes did the same drama while I braked on a rumble strip. Again, wasn't a serious situation and I could pump and bring the vehicle to halt.

Overall, I didn't expect the vehicle to behave in this manner but I've never faced an issue where the brakes didn't work at all like most Creta owners report. There is definitely something wrong with the braking system but I'm not sure if just an over-sensitive ABS or something bigger.

[gtonsing]

Came across this thread *after* i recommended some other member here on TBHP to buy a Creta since I am generally happy with mine - but I did inform that the brakes were not giving much confidence. I have not faced something as drastic as this, and I hope I do not and neither should anyone ever. But I now recollect I was braking harder than usual once on Bangalore - Pondicherry highway and I could feel the pedal becoming harder and also a noise I could not detect where it is from (Now I guess thats the ABS kicking in). Eventhough I could stop where I wanted to, it was not a good feeling.
So, for those of us who have taken the plunge, what is a proactive approach? Check sensors? Bleed or drain brake fluids? if there are no indicators, what to do?

[Lightning2]

Hi BHPians
my few cents below

1. gtonsing, Nonstop-driver, N4Nikunj and groom have already validated that serious loss of Braking power is indeed present not only in Creta, but also Hyundai other models Gi10 and new Santro, as they stated

2. This is enough big sample of BHPians within 2 days only, to positively validate this very serious Braking issue present in current Hyundai Braking hardware and Firmware

3. Hyundai would not share their ABS Algorithm and system Internals to end users like us, BUT as Sankar has pointed out the Behavior in VW Vento that ABS/EBD DO interrupt in Hydraulic brake power transfer to wheels partially or Completely.

That said, suspecting that brake loss occurred due to Vacuum pump, Master cylinder or Brake booster is WRONG

4. Root cause may be faulty design of wheels speed sensors OR faulty implementation of Sensor in one or more wheels, due to which the they are sending signal of WHEEL LOCK or no rotation to ABS/EBD module. Since the module has detected a wheel lock, it will NOT actuate the electric valve of hydraulic line of that wheel. If the sensor is wrong or if the Programming of ABS/EBD is wrong wherein it is Closing ALL actuator valves, thus explaining very large force to be applied to brake pedals often

5. another Root cause may be that, to maximum fuel efficiency there is some solenoid clutch amidst Camshaft and Vacuum Pump ( similar to AC compressor belt actuation ). ABS/EBD module must be deactivating the clutch IF it is wrongly detecting wheel speeds, thus leaving the Brake Booster with little or no vacuum, again explaining the large force required at brake pedal.

6. In my opinion Hyundai must thoroughly review Programming of ABS/EBD, and whether its correctly communicating with Main ECU. Of course Speed sensors and its implementation should also be reviewed.
ALL CARS MUST be recalled by Hyundai for inspection of these components and any Firmware Update

Originally Posted by Sankar

In a Vento which I owned I experienced loss of normal braking power when the ABS light lit up. The pedal required more force for the same expected retardation compared to when the ABS light was not lit. This happened while driving on the highway and I was expecting the ABS light to come up for the next sensor to be replaced. This is a VW issue on early model cars when 1 sensor is replaced

Originally Posted by Sankar

When ABS is not working EBD also stops functioning. With no electronic help to vary the braking force on each wheel it will take more pressure on the pedal to slow the vehicle down.
Brake servo is a mechanical component powered by vacuum (engine or pump) with no electronics (in most cases anyway) and it works even when ABS is not functional. But due to the now non functioning EBD the amount of force now needed on the pedal

[naveen.raju]

Originally Posted by N4Nikunj

I always felt the braking behavior of G-i10 even with ABS is not up to the mark. One more thing is that brake pedal isn't progressive like in the Ertiga or any other Non-Hyundai car.

I find the braking of my wife's i10 pretty satisfactory. Can't comment much on it's highway braking since it's 100% city use. Another point to note is this is non-ABS car. So the problem lies with the ABS system used/integrated by Hyundai?

Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver

Overall, I didn't expect the vehicle to behave in this manner but I've never faced an issue where the brakes didn't work at all like most Creta owners report. There is definitely something wrong with the braking system but I'm not sure if just an over-sensitive ABS or something bigger.

I have done quite a few long distance drives and have encountered few panic braking situations. Like I said, other cars from Ford/VW do provide better performances but Creta wasn't bad either (looks like it need longer braking distance).

Originally Posted by gtonsing

So, for those of us who have taken the plunge, what is a proactive approach? Check sensors? Bleed or drain brake fluids? if there are no indicators, what to do?

Suggest you to check everything from the sensors, brake fluid, booster pump.

Originally Posted by Lightning2

ALL CARS MUST be recalled by Hyundai for inspection of these components and any Firmware Update

Ideally they should, but highly doubt whether they would recall. Talking from 9 years of experience when the first Hyundai landed in our garage.

[sujithsidhardha]

Originally Posted by naveen.raju

*Potential Warning to other Creta Owners*

Glad that you are safe. I was following creta brake issues and online petitions for a long. Till now, me too believed the "improper understanding of ABS" theory by Hyundai. I drive a 2017 Creta and that too for long drives. But after reading your experience, i am shocked, shaken and lost confidence to drive creta again. Experience of other bhpians also adds to it.

We know and understand the reason of the accident. What would be the situation, if it was a major accident and something bad happens? Who will be blamed? Only the driver will be blamed and i don't think hyundai or this issue never comes in picture.

@Hyundai. You are playing with the life of your customers and general public. You need to open your ears and take immediate action on this. It is the sole responsibility of Hyundai for any accidents of creta due to this issue, until you provide a proper fix. From now onward, i will definitely relate and suspect any creta accidents would be due to this braking issue. I believe the attitude of other's would also be similar.

I am a hyundai customer for the last 18 years and vouched hyundai for anyone and everyone who wish to purchase a car. But from this day, No more Hyundai again!

[greatgyan]

During my 36000 kms and almost 3 years of ownership of my Creta (SX-O) I've never faced anything as alarming as this. But I've faced issues sometimes while braking for a speed breaker.
Like I see a speed breaker and press the brakes to reduce my speed, the initial deceleration is as expected, but just before the wheels go over the speed breaker, the brakes make a jarring noise and I feel quite heavy vibrations on the brake pedal, this is accompanied with flashing of the traction control light. I also feel that momentarily the car has stopped braking and is not slowing down anymore.

I just remove my foot from the brake pedal momentarily and press it again and it functions normally thereafter. Since the speed at that time is already so low, it didn't ever cause me a major problem like the ones mentioned on this thread.

[naveen.raju]

Originally Posted by greatgyan

During my 36000 kms and almost 3 years of ownership of my Creta (SX-O) I've never faced anything as alarming as this. But I've faced issues sometimes while braking for a speed breaker.
Like I see a speed breaker and press the brakes to reduce my speed, the initial deceleration is as expected, but just before the wheels go over the speed breaker, the brakes make a jarring noise and I feel quite heavy vibrations on the brake pedal, this is accompanied with flashing of the traction control light. I also feel that momentarily the car has stopped braking and is not slowing down anymore.

Buddy, I highly recommend you to check the sensor since I noticed the same initially. If you read the first line of this thread, you can see that it all started with the tires loosing grip at times during a spirited U Turn and the traction light blinking.

Considering you are driving the same variant, almost similar manufacturing time and odo - I strongly urge you to get this checked. In case you see the ABS lit for more than 10 seconds, look no further. But again, don't wait for that, please get it checked.