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Old 31st March 2020, 18:43   #31
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
Well the decade old Ford Fiesta Classic which has an electronic boot release button, while most others from the segment used to have a mechanical lever, had a simple solution. While the car is on the move, pressing the boot release button would do nothing. The vehicle speed has got to be zero if one wanted that button to work.

It should be really simple stuff, if a decade old economy sedan from Ford could do it. Car makers can perhaps set a speed limit like say 20 kmph, beyond which this button would simply not react.

And this being a 'parking' brake, is there any other need for it to be engaged while on the move?
The parking brake might have to be used as an emergency brake incase the primary hydraulic brakes fail.

My solution is simple. It's like the start stop button in a car. When the car is on the move, the button needs to be kept pressed to shut the car off. In a similar way, why not have the E parking brake designed in a similar fashion? Keep it pulled up at speed for 5-10 seconds if you want to engage the rear brakes.

Don't know why manufacturers who otherwise spend a lot of money on gimmickry fall prey to such ergonomical goof ups.
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Old 31st March 2020, 18:57   #32
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

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Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
Keep it pulled up at speed for 5-10 seconds if you want to engage the rear brakes.
If you ever need to use it in an emergency, you will not want to wait 5-10 seconds! Maybe not even two!
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Old 2nd April 2020, 11:03   #33
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Questions for those who have this feature in their cars.

Does the e parking brake actuate when the vehicle`s engine is off?
Anything in the instruction manual about how to disengage if the battery is down?
Yes, it does engage with the engine off but I believe only for a few seconds before you open the doors and exit the car. That is how it works in my Passat. I don't think there is an easy way of disengaging it without having electric power from the battery. A Google search reveals the possibility of some cars having a manual override switch under the dash near the brake pedals but I am not sure if the Passat has it.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 14:48   #34
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Many new cars today are opting for the e-parking brake & there is no denying that it frees up space on the center console. Most owners will also prefer flipping a lever versus a mechanical handbrake which can sometimes be cumbersome to disengage. This is a "premium" feature that will inevitably make its way down to mainstream cars (new Creta has it too).
This is such a serious concern and very rightly highlighted specially for those who have naughty kids in the house. Has happened with my younger brother too while he didn't want to go to school but was forced to and in the car he pulled up the handbrake on my Jeep Compass. The driver said it was a nightmare and he stopped out of panic just coz of the noise the car made.

There's no way the current cars can have this sorted and people just have to be cautious and live with it but I hope manufacturers take cues from this thread and there's something done about it.

I'm surprised the Western countries that emphasizes so much on safety even forced owners to have ugly markers on the bumpers, they doesn't already have a rule for this.

PS - I haven't tried but I surely will at a slower speed but as far as I can recall JLR has an important approach to this where even if you pull the handbrake button it shows an error on the dash when the car is on the move at any speed over 10 km/hr

Last edited by BlackPearl : 2nd April 2020 at 16:32. Reason: Trimmed the post within quotes for better readability. Thanks.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 15:59   #35
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
This is such a serious concern and very rightly highlighted specially for those who have naughty kids in the house. Has happened with my younger brother too while he didn't want to go to school but was forced to and in the car he pulled up the handbrake on my Jeep Compass. The driver said it was a nightmare and he stopped out of panic just coz of the noise the car made.
IMO the solution for this is primarily to follow a simple rule and ensure kids are never in the front seat but in a child seat in the back. Naughty, curious kids can pull a normal handbrake also. They are just kittens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
I'm surprised the Western countries that emphasizes so much on safety even forced owners to have ugly markers on the bumpers, they doesn't already have a rule for this.
Thats a really valid point. Agreed & surprised about it too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
PS - I haven't tried but I surely will at a slower speed but as far as I can recall JLR has an important approach to this where even if you pull the handbrake button it shows an error on the dash when the car is on the move at any speed over 10 km/hr
[quote=AdiSinghV12;4781427]This if true - is another drawback of this e-parking brake. A cable/lever operated manual hand-brake - works as a last resort emergency brake in case the booster assisted primary brake pedal malfunctions and causes panic. If the software is going to prohibit me from using what can be a safety feature - its goodbye such a car from me.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 22:14   #36
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

To make matters worse, jeep compass has ESP on off switch next to handbrake .. A driver can be driving his Jeep without realizing it just because of his fiddly co driver.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 22:25   #37
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

Most of the concerns shared here are well thought of by the manufacturers.
I am sharing some relevant content from the owners manual of my 2019 Honda CR-V (USA).

E-Parking Brake:





Automatic Brake Hold Function:


https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...1&d=1585846239
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Old 2nd April 2020, 23:01   #38
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

Electronic parking brakes have a different ECU and it's functionality is not clubbed with other ECU. Reason: There is a functional safety aspect given to EPB function as per ISO26262.

A logic like Passat can be added to most of EPB by designing the system such that EPB ECU is fed vehicle speed through CAN(Controller Area network) bus and when it's above a certain speed limit and override the same.

Now most of us think hand brake as an emergency braking but was that the original purpose of hand brake?

Generally the modern brakes are more reliable and give you warnings when they fail. Hence, the thought process moved from using it in emergency halting procedure to being a parking brake.

In modern cars, hand brake == parking brake.

Generally EPB only works with rear wheels. Also given the guy in the Passat video felt that it was applied for a microsecond, modern EPB will not even let you feel that if the software in it is written as per automotive process of ISO 26262 and functionally sound.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 23:34   #39
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

I came across a foot parking brake in many cars in the US that I've driven (Nissan Altima, Nissan Rogue and the Dodge Challenger). I'm attaching photos of how it looks in both engaged and disengaged positions.

Obviously, these cars were all automatic, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to design for a manual car. When disengaged, it didn't really bother me when I put my foot on the dead pedal.
Attached Thumbnails
The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars-20190425_103532.jpg  

The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars-20190425_103522.jpg  

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Old 2nd April 2020, 23:48   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdaityari View Post
I came across a foot parking brake in many cars in the US th.

My 1982 Mercedes W123 has a mechanical foot parking brake. When using it in hill starts takes a bit of getting used to. You need your left foot to depress it, so you must be in neutral. There is a big knob on the dashboard that release it in one go. So you must balance the clutch/engine rpm a little bit more carefully than with a traditional mechanical hand brake that you can release slowly.

But it works fine.

But I will admit that having electronic brake control on my modern car makes for easier hill starts all together. It detects when you are not horizontally and apply brakes automatically so you wont roll back and will release automatically when you apply the throttle and release clutch. I have an automatic so it is even more simple

Jeroen
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Old 3rd April 2020, 00:04   #41
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

But how much pressure does the e-brake really produce? It's not enough to really lock the wheels into a spin, right?
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Old 3rd April 2020, 07:30   #42
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

E Parking brakes certainly is the way forward as it frees up lot of space but it should be placed on the driver's side not in the central console.
In case of emergencies like break failure or driver is incapacitated, i think it's better if we have a breaking mechanism linked with the hazard lights with an override feature under the bonnet (override disengages whenever the ignition is turned on). Anyways a vehicle is not supposed to move with hazard lights on (a major problem in India).
Did I try to kill 2 birds with one stone? Yes!
But I'm not sure if this is practical. Just my opinion.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 17:07   #43
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

Doesn't anyone enjoy a good handbrake turn every once in a while on a empty stretch of road?
I bet e-brakes can't do that.
Plus mechanical brakes last forever, looks cool and appeals to everyone. It's hardly a convenient feature. Modern cars have sensors for mechanical handbrake if someone forgets to release them. Plus handbrakes are great for starting a manual car on an incline(the ones that don't have hill hold).
Additionally the ratcheting sound of mechanical brakes is super cool!
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Old 3rd April 2020, 17:44   #44
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

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Originally Posted by ron82x3 View Post
Doesn't anyone enjoy a good handbrake turn every once in a while on a empty stretch of road?
Frankly, errm... No.
Quote:
Additionally the ratcheting sound of mechanical brakes is super cool!
You are actually "supposed" to push the button when applying the handbrake, so no rachet noise, and no ratchet wear.

I use the quote marks because, plainly, it depends on what authority one listens to, but this is something that was drummed into me by several British driving instructors.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 18:25   #45
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Re: The dangerously stupid e-parking brake location of modern cars

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
You are actually "supposed" to push the button when applying the handbrake, so no rachet noise, and no ratchet wear.
TL;DR this seems to be a bit of a myth
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