[epijay]

Customer Service in India is a thin veneer consisting of selling you a product. But if there are issues with a product, blame shifting will start to occur instead of the seller/provider striving to understand the product and trying to fix the problem for the customer.

I purchased a set of Ironman Shocks from a dealer in Bangalore for my AWD duster a little over a year ago. The top mount was replaced because the bearings had become jammed. Fast forward a year plus later and the replaced top mounts were again jammed. I got a pair of new OEM top mounts from the Renault dealer, took them to the Ironman Dealer in Bangalore, who replaced them and re-fitted the shocks. A week or two later, (see pics), the top mounts were unevenly jutting out.

When I contacted the Ironman dealer, the first thing he said was " this has never happened before", thus starting the CVA procedure for not taking responsibility and standing behind a product that cost in excess of 1L! The conversation turned hostile and he got very defensive about it. Words like " can't do anything about it" were used by another Ironman Dealer in Coimbatore. As it stands, the Bangalore dealer has asked me to drive over (on defective mounts) to Bangalore, but doesn't seem to have any plans in place to recognise and take care of the problem.

The solution seems to be that Ironman should have offered extra re-inforced top mounts for each make of vehicle they have recommended. On their website they have, for example, made available re-inforced mounts for the Pajero. If they cannot guarantee the shocks' performance for your particular make and model, they should NOT be selling them to you in the first place. "It has never happened before" is a logical fallacy and subterfuge for CYA because, NOW, it HAS happened, but then they try to shift the blame on to the driver; this shoddy customer service has kicked in!!! Buyers Beware!!!

[GTO]

Mod Note: Thread moved to Tech Stuff! Thanks for sharing.

[Sankar]

This is a perennial issue with many VW Polos, Ventos, mk1 Octavias with a lowered suspension or a worn out mounting bush. Duster has the same suspension design up front.

Blame the el cheapo type front strut design in these vehicles including the duster, and any other new gen car with a front mcpherson strut suspension. Gone are the days of three bolt or two bolt strut top mounting system of cars like old - Lancer, Baleno, Esteem, City etc and not so old Ecosport.

Bolted in front McPherson strut top - Eg: Ecosport. Marked in blue circles.


Retainer/Cap type front McPherson strut tops. Eg: Venue. Marked in yellow circles. Duster, Polo, Swift etc etc is of this type. Almost all McPhersons are of this type now. Its cheaper.


This type front strut mounts are simpler (read cheaper) in design, the large bush on top of the strut sits into that upside down bowl looking mounts. The strut rod passes through the large hole in the center and a retainer/cap is bolted on top in place. Basically the strut is sandwiched in the strut mounting by the bush below and the retainer cap on top. The cap's function is to not to let the struts fall out of the car if wheel goes into a dip or catches air. The whole weight is taken by the bush sitting inside the bowl. Its not positively held in place and moves about when the vehicle is moving. Its a cheap design like the torsion beam rear suspension but works.

If the bush wears out it sticks too much into the engine bay, if lowering springs are used it sticks too much, if there is a difference in length of the shocks and the bush isn't matched for it it sticks too much.

In my ex old Octavia RS with H&R OE sport springs and bilstein damper it stuck out like this. I fixed it using after market top mount bushes. On my ex Polo GT it stuck out a bit like this even with stock suspension. In a Vento with Bilstein coilover it stuck out far too much and was an eyesore. But in VW it can be fixed using aftermarket top mount bushes. In my current i10 it sticks out a little because top mount bush is worn and makes clunking noise when going over potholes. That sound is the retainer cap hitting the strut mounts.

The duster have the exact same front mcpherson mount design and if you want to fix it you may have to get a thicker or less compressible after market top mount bush. Btw why did you have to change the bush for the bearings? Is the strut bearings built into the bush?

When I had the VWs I thought there was something wrong with the suspension till I figured this is how the el-cheapo design is supposed to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zn16SwcCK8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMy4lfsSDBY

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by epijay

I purchased a set of Ironman Shocks from a dealer in Bangalore for my AWD duster a little over a year ago. The top mount was replaced because the bearings had become jammed. Fast forward a year plus later and the replaced top mounts were again jammed. I got a pair of new OEM top mounts from the Renault dealer, took them to the Ironman Dealer in Bangalore, who replaced them and re-fitted the shocks. A week or two later, (see pics), the top mounts were unevenly jutting out.

Your camber setting must have take a hit, please get it checked , tire is also very expensive and being AWD you simply cannot change one at a time.

You have spent a handsome amount of money on this but still - revert to stock for reliability. The stock set up is good for about 70-80K kms and they you need to replace everything anyways, it's going to cost quite a bit to do that properly to retain the initial ride quality. These aftermarket systems are going to last just the same or even less and will cost an arm and a leg to replace once they are done, not to mention the heartache.

[epijay]

I needed the lift - stocks don't have the ground clearance for my place

[ChrisTJ]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Blame the el cheapo type front strut design in these vehicles including the duster, and any other new gen car with a front mcpherson strut suspension. Gone are the days of three bolt or two bolt strut top mounting system of cars like old - Lancer, Baleno, Esteem, City etc and not so old Ecosport.

Wouldn't this cheap design also affect the handling of the vehicle? I've never seen a suspension mounted on a sponge before

If I think about it, on motorcycles, the forks and rear suspensions are rigidly mounted on to the frame to avoid any lateral movements/flex since it will greatly degrade the handling.

What makes manufacturers think they can do this on a vehicle that supposed to be a driver's car (polo, swift).

What if we make that rubber cup out of some harder material or even metal?

You got my mind working on this

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by epijay

I needed the lift - stocks don't have the ground clearance for my place

Their kit is probably matched to be used with their top mount bushes. Might be the reason why its sticking out like this now with OE bush.

This kit?
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post3175768 (Renault Duster : Official Review)

Originally Posted by ChrisTJ

Wouldn't this cheap design also affect the handling of the vehicle? I've never seen a suspension mounted on a sponge before

If I think about it, on motorcycles, the forks and rear suspensions are rigidly mounted on to the frame to avoid any lateral movements/flex since it will greatly degrade the handling.

What makes manufacturers think they can do this on a vehicle that supposed to be a driver's car (polo, swift).

What if we make that rubber cup out of some harder material or even metal?

You got my mind working on this

Drivers car here, but economy hatches in markets with options

These rubber bushes are hard rubber and not compressible by hand. But when used under a car to carry its weight there is some give which helps in reducing NVH.

Coming to the hot hatch versions of these economy hatches eg: Polo GTI, Golf GTI, RS versions in Skoda etc although they are using the same type of suspension but they use materials with different density and design in its manufacture. In brief the rubber in these mounts are made using harder rubber and the voids in rubber found in eco version of the cars are not found on the hotter versions. For eg the rubber bushing of front lower arms and rear torsion beams have voids in their design to provide that "give" which helps in comfort and reducing NVH; the hot versions do not have the void which reduces the give and better location of the wheels under cornering forces. This is applicable to the top mount bush as well. It is possible to get the part numbers for these "hot" version bushes and use them on the econo variants. It improves handling but lets in more vibrations and harshness especially on our roads. Easy way out is by using poly bushes but they are plain bad when it comes to longevity, only place where poly bush is suitable is as a top mount bush. I had a set of OEM hot version bushes for the Mk1 OctyRS I might still have if it isnt scrapped yet, they are long time no see.

A motorcycle can't afford to have loose or imprecise wheel location because the whole thing stays upright due to gyroscopic forces and should respond to rider input. Car is different.

[epijay]

One alternative was indeed to look at Skoda top mounts..the Dacia kit is probably what is on my car, but it doesn't come with the top mount as far as I know

[Living2Drive]

I have driven the similar Dacia Duster in EU for a while, it had this similar issue of camber off set every 30K. The strut top mount would wear on the outer side if driven more on country side/uneven/broken roads. I used to replace is every 25Kkms as 70% of my use was on farm land and its surroundings.
If my guess is right this will have the same issue as well...

[arjab]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Blame the el cheapo type front strut design in these vehicles including the duster, and any other new gen car with a front mcpherson strut suspension. Gone are the days of three bolt or two bolt strut top mounting system of cars like old - Lancer, Baleno, Esteem, City etc and not so old Ecosport.

You are absolutely right. Apart from sacrificing robustness, these cheaper systems also "flex" more resulting in not so sharp handling. But then who cares, as long as it saves $$$

My NEXON still has the three bolt arrangement. (pic attached). But then it is based on the old Tata X1, (Vista), architecture, the hard points of which have not been changed. Curious to see the front strut top mounting configuration of the ALTROZ which is based on Tata's latest modular platform.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sankar

This is a perennial issue with many VW Polos, Ventos, mk1 Octavias with a lowered suspension or a worn out mounting bush. Duster has the same suspension design up front.

When I had the VWs I thought there was something wrong with the suspension till I figured this is how the el-cheapo design is supposed to be.

These cheapo designs also results in some "Tuds" while going through bad roads and our unscientific speed breakers , all because of the increasing gap between top stopper and strut mounting. For Polo we can go for aftermarket mounts with more hardness, and bit change in design which will reduce the gap between Stopper/Retainer and Strut mounting but will result in transmitting more vibration to the cabin. I tried multiple options and at last went back to OEM , as I can live with occasional Tuds than constant vibration.
After understanding this El-cheapo design I moved on, as there is nothing much I can do to sort it out apart from occasionally cursing the person who design this stuff.

[1.2TSI7DSG]

First, could you detail of what the Ironman shocks do? Like increase travel/lower suspension/increase stifness?

From the pictures you have shared, it appears that the Ironman shocks are way stiffer than the OEM shocks. Hence, there is excess reaction force from the mounting which is getting your bearing dislocated which would be expected of our is beyond design capacity. you can go to a bearing specialist and get the bearing upgraded. Also check if the mounting point in the Monocoque has changed causing misalignment. The other is if you have taken the car for extreme off roading, then there can be excess stress which may cause the dislocation.

[Tgo]

I have just some basic questions here...

Lifting or lowering is going to change the suspension geometry. Shouldn't there be adjustments to other components in the suspension links to suit the new geometry?

I heard you need to lower the drive train (by lowering the engine and gearbox mounts) for the setup to function reliably.

Was something on these lines discussed?

[eapen]

Strut top plate spacer ring:

At 62000km for my 2015 6sp MT diesel Renault Duster got the front struts changed to aftermarket Monroe. Realised after fitting, the strut top plate sits 10mm above the chassis similair to OP's picture. I have reused OE mount & strut bearing.

Observed this common problem with aftermarket Monroe struts. Even in my BIL's 2018 diesel AMT Duster it's got the same gap after changing to Monroe struts even with OEM mounts & strut bearing.

To prevent any untoward rattle due to free sitting strut plate, fabricated first fabricated a 6061aluminum alloy ring plate to seat the gap properly (2nd pic). The front felt firmer with better handling, but rough road sudden impacts were felt inside. Below the top plate rubber bushing is moulded to it which can can pressed by hand (3rd pic). These were making a creaking sound on turns due to increased compression pressure on them.

Hence got another set of spacer rings in silicone rubber waterjet cut (3rd pic) from a sheet. Installed it after greasing a bit & it improves comfort with the advantage of good handling(4th pic). The silicone rubber matches the elasticity of strut plate bottom moulded bushing.