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Old 2nd March 2021, 17:45   #16
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

Except for the 1.2 K and Ford Dragon series, all other 1.2 NA engines in the market are lame. The Hyundai 1.2 is the worst of the lot easily.It exists just so that Hyundai can launch their cars with a low sticker price compared to the competition and thus get foot falls in the showroom. Turbo petrols are the way ahead in the small car segment. And the manufacturers are heading in that direction.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 11:06   #17
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

My quick points here -

a.) It's not the fashion and peer pressure game it's all about the torque.

b.) VW group 1.0 Tsi was awarded engine of the year, 2018 globally for a reason. Try convincing a driver who has just driven the 1.0 TSi with all excels, graphs and logics of owning a NA engine. You can convince on everything else except the 1.0 TSi engine.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 11:40   #18
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

Does the whole discussion change if we change the subject from a 1.2 L NA engine to a 1.6 L NA engine.
Does that change the whole discussion or the conclusion?
I am trying to understand if the displacement of an engine irrespective or being a NA or Turbo make a difference in general as well during any comparisons?
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Old 3rd March 2021, 12:01   #19
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

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Originally Posted by Artyom View Post
Does the whole discussion change if we change the subject from a 1.2 L NA engine to a 1.6 L NA engine.
Does that change the whole discussion or the conclusion?
I am trying to understand if the displacement of an engine irrespective or being a NA or Turbo make a difference in general as well during any comparisons?
Polo was sold with both. The 1.6 NA Polo was a lame car that felt just about adequate. Compared to that the 1.2 TSi sold earlier and the 1.0 TSi sold now are both far better engines with way more grunt.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 12:25   #20
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

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Originally Posted by pavi View Post
3. The availability of torque at lower rpm itself help you climb an incline very easily. Keep in first gear and leave your clutch, Rapid will easily climb most gradiants with out any accelerator input. Again torque in play here.
I doubt if this is true. I drive a turbo petrol.
If you keep off the accelerator, I assume it is in idle rpm. In that case the turbo does not come into play. So what you have is a NA engine in this instant.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 15:28   #21
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

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I doubt if this is true. I drive a turbo petrol.
If you keep off the accelerator, I assume it is in idle rpm. In that case the turbo does not come into play. So what you have is a NA engine in this instant.
I doubted the very same thing the first time when the sales person told so when I did the test drive. But Rapid climbed a gradient (a very high raising) without accelerator input with me, salesperson and my brother. Thought it would be because of something done in the test car, I tried with my car also and found it climbs inclines with no accelerator input in first gear. My friend also raised this doubt to me, and he is a believer now. I will share a video when I could.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 15:58   #22
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

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Originally Posted by pavi View Post
But Rapid climbed a gradient (a very high raising) without accelerator input with me, salesperson and my brother.
Sorry if my post came out as you interpreted. I didn't doubt the capability of the car.

My point was if the car climbs the gradient without accelerator input, it means it is doing on its engine power and not because it is a turbo petrol. Turbo won't have any output at idle rpm. Even if you remove the turbo perhaps it will climb that gradient. This is because the engine is powerful for the car, even without the turbo.

I drive a Octavia turbo petrol and it does the same
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Old 3rd March 2021, 16:32   #23
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

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I drive a Octavia turbo petrol and it does the same
Basically 1 litre TSI has sufficient torque even under turbo zone. My Honda City would be gasping for breath if I do this. What I would love to have in my Rapid is engine refinement, Honda City spoiled me with its near silent engine noise levels. Another thing I would love to have is a much lower driver seat position. I know in this age of sitting on the car (SUV), this would be 'are you crazy' kind of requirement, but I love the feel of sitting in the car.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 19:16   #24
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

There is no replacement for actual test drive with varying RPM and experiencing acceleration across different gears.

Well actually it can be simulated with torque curves and gearing ratios but I guess that would be too complex for the scope of an internet forum.

The entire Torque or BHP vs RPM graph explains quite a lot of thing of how the engine will appear to behave (and it better should otherwise laws of physics can be tossed out).

###

Someone brought up the topic of Old Honda City VTEC1.5 - I agree whole heartedly with both gentleman. I find the engine's response anemic till 2500 RPM, thus I label it poor at low end. Another gentleman, perhaps, slips clutch and slots gear at 2500 RPM, hence he would find it going like a rocket.

No one is right, no one is wrong - it is just our driving styles / preferences and hence our personalized labels.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 19:51   #25
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Re: The fashion league of Turbo-Petrol engines

Contrary to popular opinion, I have always preferred naturally aspirated (NA) engines simply because of their long-term reliability and cheap & easy maintenance. I completely agree with the original poster's views that most people do not need turbocharged engines in their cars. A turbocharged engine will always wear out faster than its naturally aspirated counterpart. Let us not forget that the current record for the longest driven car is held by one with a NA petrol engine. Anyone remember Irv Gordon ?

If someone thinks that these NA petrol engines are underpowered, I would share my experience with them. My earlier car was a 1986 NA petrol Mark 4 HM Ambassador with approximately one third the power of my current 2017 1.6 NA petrol Creta (1st generation). And that Ambassador didn't even have an air conditioning system. Yet I was able to drive that Ambassador all over the treacherous terrain of North East India for close to 2 decades often in overloaded conditions (leaf springs would almost be flattened) without facing any engine power issues. That is why I feel that in today's day and age, engine power is definitely overrated for regular use unless the driver is an aggressive one.

Whenever someone mentions the word "turbo", I seem to be able to hear Jeremy Clarkson at the back of my mind screaming "SPEED & POWER" Following the herd mentality of more power in turbocharged cars often distracts car buyers away from the ground realities of expensive repairs and maintenance, higher fuel bills due to lower fuel efficiency, higher NVH (noise, vibrations and harshness), higher taxes, higher insurance costs, etc. The fuel efficiency can be increased in some turbocharged cars by driving below the turbocharger spooling/boosting RPMs but then the question arises as to why pay extra for a turbocharged engine if that turbocharger is not going to be used.

Additionally, the newer GDi (Gasoline Direct Injection) engines used by most brands today are becoming increasingly infamous for reliability issues in as early as 5-6 years with issues like injector failures, broken piston rings, high cylinder wear, bent rods, bent valves, etc. Add a turbocharger into the mix (T-GDi, TSi, etc) and we have a recipe for even earlier engine failure due to higher overall pressures that come dangerously close to diesel territory. The car forums of many countries (where GDi engines have existed for a few years) are full of people complaining about such engines. Even motorcycle owners who have GDi engines from brands like KTM, Husqvarna, etc are facing issues. If anyone is offended, I am sorry for my rant.

In summary, I believe that tried and tested naturally aspirated engines are way more practical for regular use cases for most people
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