Team-BHP > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th February 2021, 14:28   #1
BHPian
 
sachin_cs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Raipur C.G.
Posts: 222
Thanked: 1,261 Times
Default Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz

It is unfortunate to inform that our new Tata Altroz developed an oil leakage within the first month of ownership and it was repaired under warranty and we were assured that this problem won't resurface in the future. Well two months after the repair, the engine bay is again showing signs of oil leak from the head.

How events unfolded?

A. Car Purchase:

This car belongs to my sister and after a lot of deliberation, we finally went ahead with the Altroz over Freestyle assuming it to be a better product and also we were of the belief that Tata has come a long way in quality control and after-sales service. (Which we are experiencing now)

We took the delivery of Tata Altroz XT Petrol Midtown Grey on 04th November 2020.

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-delivery.jpg



B. First incident:

It was not even a month into the ownership and we observed traces of oil in the engine bay when we were on a trip to our natives and immediately we took the car to the service centre on 02nd December 2020 for the checkup and 1st service. I was in talks with the service team throughout the process and they said something of this sort has happened for the first time in Altroz and we will repair it under warranty, which they eventually did and delivered the car on 3rd December, wasting our entire day (keeping our mental agony aside).

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20201202wa0018-1.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20201202wa0020.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20201202wa0023-1.jpg



Left with an unusual experience I decided to escalate this issue to Tata motors so that the least they could do is to provide us with an assurance of the reliability of the car in the long run and offer an extended warranty to us to instil confidence in the brand. I wrote a mail to Tata customer care, service manager, regional head and shared with them all the details of the ordeal & the pictures of the same. I had numerous discussions with the service manager and regional head as well over the phone and they assured me that it was just a simple defect in O-ring and nothing else, to which I asked them to provide me in writing and they sent me a mail with the assurity. However, they refused to entertain any provision of extending the warranty.

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-bill-.jpg
The Repair invoice

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-sent-.jpg
Mail sent by me

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-reply.jpg
Their reply

C. 2nd incident:
The oil leak again resurfaced from the engine head and it is hardly two months since the last repair. As of 17th February 2021 13:30, while writing this post, the car is in the service centre and my brother is waiting for someone senior to look into the issue.




Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0003.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0004.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0005.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0006.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0007.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0009.jpg


D. My thoughts:
  • It is beyond our comprehension that how could Tata even managed to roll off a car from the assembly line without a quality check
  • When the problem was reported for the first time, they should have thoroughly checked the car
  • After spending ~8L, is this what we are entitled to?
  • My sister is an inspector, my brother is an architect, we have our own professional life and we just cannot waste our time running after car repairs
  • No pickup or dropoff service was offered to us
  • As mentioned, the last time they refused to offer extended warranty and I don't know what they have to say this time
  • We as a customer have lost trust in the brand Tata, how do we restore the confidence that we can go on long trips in the car and nothing would happen to it?
  • It's not even 4 months into the ownership and the car has visited the service centre twice, how I would be assured that the car would remain reliable in the long run lets say 5 years down the line?
  • I was about to post this issue in the TeamBHP during the first incident itself but since I was assured that nothing would happen I decided to let it go since we really liked the car & were hopeful that it won't repeat, boy I was proved so wrong.
  • The odometer stands at mere 7766kms
  • Tata owes an explanation to us!
  • We have started getting a feeling that we were delivered a lemon

E. Timeline:
  1. Car was purchased on 04th November 2020 from National Garage Raipur
  2. Three weeks into the ownership and oil leakage was first observed
  3. Car was sent to the service centre on 02nd December
  4. Car was delivered on 3rd December after warranty repair
  5. February second week 2021, oil leakage was again observed
  6. Car is with service centre- 17th February 2021

Dear BHPians, looking forward to your suggestions and input on the matter.

Here's a video of the same-


Last edited by sachin_cs : 17th February 2021 at 14:53. Reason: Grammar
sachin_cs is offline   (52) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 14:41   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Jalandhar
Posts: 230
Thanked: 347 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Is the yellow cap, adjacent to the leak, engine oil fill cap? If yes then Could this be a case of over filling of engine oil from factory?
roamer012 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 15:00   #3
BHPian
 
saikarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 460
Thanked: 3,127 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Ask for a root cause this time and insist of being there while changing the O-ring (since previous suspect was it) or whatever. The reason I say this is that I am unable to find any cost for replacement part mentioned in the invoice. Going by the invoice they have simply cleaned it and toped up the oil.

I suspect the area of interference (sealing) between the sensor which you have shown and the head.
saikarthik is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 15:25   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
TrackDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Magic land
Posts: 1,043
Thanked: 4,212 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Some questions :

1. Is there blue smoke from the exhaust while driving ?
2. I see the color of the oil to be golden/brown. Kindly confirm it to be the same.

I do agree with you that this indeed affects one's own time since all are working professionals and not to mention the loss of peace of mind. This is most likely a bad oil seal somewhere although will wait for more expert opinions. The car seems to have passed the basic quality checks, evident from the blue/green sketch marks on the bolts. It is still early to call it a lemon. Maybe a simple fix can solve the problem.

Last edited by TrackDay : 17th February 2021 at 15:40.
TrackDay is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 15:32   #5
BHPian
 
akshay380's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Goa
Posts: 948
Thanked: 1,220 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. The oil leak appears to be from valve cover.
Please check for the following.
1. Don't let them simply change the valve gasket unless it's visibly faulty.
2. Check for PCV valve, if it's clogged. Also confirm that the breather hose connecting the valve if not collapsing under load, is high rpm.
akshay380 is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 16:25   #6
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: India
Posts: 5,413
Thanked: 7,141 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Leak seems to be from this locations marked inside red circle.

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0005.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-img20210217wa0009.jpg

That part appears to be the two the variable valve timing solenoids acting on inlet and exhaust cams. Variable valve timing is achieved by the solenoids opening and closing oil channels inside the actuator. The leak may be from one of both the solenoid o-rings, but the one on the exhaust cam (towards the front) looks wetter.

Since the leak resumed after changing the O-ring once it may be a manufacturing defect (incorrect tolerance) of the plastic valve cover itself. So I would suggest getting the 0-ring replaced once again (what if it was faulty o-ring again?) and if the leak persists replace the valve cover and O-ring (including others since they are not supposed to be re-used).

Last edited by Sankar : 17th February 2021 at 16:28.
Sankar is offline   (27) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 16:58   #7
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Cochin
Posts: 855
Thanked: 1,720 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Pardon my ignorance, can someone help me understand what the highlighted section is in the below picture.
Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-screenshot_20210217165518__01__01__01.jpg
pavi is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 17:48   #8
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 12,349
Thanked: 21,181 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavi View Post
Pardon my ignorance, can someone help me understand what the highlighted section is in the below picture.
Could be the threaded inserts kept ready if in future Tata decides to add an engine cover where the cover holding stubs will screw into these holes. I may be wrong but that's what I can think of.

Last edited by a4anurag : 17th February 2021 at 17:51.
a4anurag is offline   (14) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 17:57   #9
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Cochin
Posts: 855
Thanked: 1,720 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Could be the threaded inserts kept ready if in future Tata decides to add an engine cover where the cover holding stubs will screw into these holes. I may be wrong but that's what I can think of.
Could be true. I checked the other pictures again and found there is a similar arrangement diagonal to this one at the other end of engine. See below.
Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-screenshot_20210217175429__01__01.jpg

Note: Initially it looked like a missing screw to me. I rest my case here, please continue with the actual discussion.

Last edited by pavi : 17th February 2021 at 17:58.
pavi is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 18:14   #10
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 12,349
Thanked: 21,181 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default Re: Oil leakage in new Tata Altroz

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavi View Post
Could be true. I checked the other pictures again and found there is a similar arrangement diagonal to this one at the other end of engine.
There is a third one just near the engine oil dipstick too.
a4anurag is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 19:14   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Leoshashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: India
Posts: 5,089
Thanked: 36,483 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz

There is something seriously wrong with Altroz Petrol N/A engine, this isn't the first case of leak I have seen. I remember a friend sharing many screenshots from a Facebook group. All were Petrol variants. DBHPian Ravenavi assures it's limited to a particular batch, and I hope it's true.

There is a reason why Tata faces criticism for lack quality control and still doesn't feature in consideration of those who value reliability and niggle free ownership. Just good designs don't win you everything. I hope Tata takes notice, fixes issues of all customers once and for all, and tightens its QC team/vendors.

Some screenshots I had:

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-screenshot_20210217191108_whatsapp.jpg

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-screenshot_20210217191114_whatsapp.jpg
Leoshashi is offline   (44) Thanks
Old 17th February 2021, 22:01   #12
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vishy76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: BDQ
Posts: 1,009
Thanked: 6,230 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz

It is extremely disturbing to see such major issues cropping up in the newer generation TATA cars. The Harrier first and the Altroz now. Cars like the Nexon, Zest, Bolt, Tiago and Tigor based on the older architecture seem to be far more reliable not only mechanically but also on the electronics front.

Coming to this issue, I shudder to think what would have happened had the owner been a layman who doesn't even know how to pop the bonnet, forget checking oil levels. By the time the oil pressure lamp comes on in most cars, it's simply too late (assuming the average joe pays heed to it and shuts the engine off immediately). It's good that the OP chose to check oil levels and the engine bay on a regular basis even though this is a new car.

Coming to the leak itself, it seems to be coming from the VVT solenoid to me as pointed out by some of the other members. There is high probability that the service centre reused the seals (which obviously shouldn't have been done) and this happened.

If it is indeed the tappet cover again, then I think it's just poor workmanship on the part of the dealer. Might be down to improper tightening of the tappet cover since the seal has been replaced already.
vishy76 is online now   (6) Thanks
Old 18th February 2021, 18:23   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
arjab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MAA/CCU
Posts: 1,083
Thanked: 3,346 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz

Oil leakage, twice, in as many months from allegedly the same location shown, that is the cam sensor seat, may mean an issue beyond a squished up "O-ring".

Why is the "O-ring" getting squished and letting out oil in the first place? Is it because of mis-threading, a probable issue with the cam sensor seat, an ovality developing in the orifice or the sensor getting loose / "O-ring" getting pinched due to engine rocking / vibrations?
Earlier Tiago models did not have this issue. Since the engine is same between Tiago and ALTROZ, is this failure because of some value engineering/cost rationalisation exercise done by the manufacturer's team and not properly validated before being put into serial production?

This deserves a thorough investigation/diagnosis by TML personnel from factory end to find the root cause. Earlier the better.
arjab is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 18th February 2021, 21:05   #14
BHPian
 
sachin_cs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Raipur C.G.
Posts: 222
Thanked: 1,261 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz

Update on the status of the Altroz:


17th February 2021
  • My brother reaches service center at 10:50 in the morning
  • Job card is made at 11:15
  • He informs me about the situation at 11:30
  • I made a call to the regional head of Tata Motors at 11:40 and shared the details with him, to which he said he will revert in 30 minutes
  • 12:30 I messaged the regional head through WhatsApp and also sent him the screenshot of the emails we exchanged in December, to which his reply was "noted let me check"
  • I also asked him to contact someone in higher authority to look into the issue and informed him about my brother's presence there
  • The car was due for 2nd service so a mechanic went ahead with the general service and mechanic also started working on the cam sensor O-ring
  • No one from the higher management came personally to discuss with my brother, the only people interacted with him were the mechanic who was working on the car and the guy who made the job card
  • The car got ready by 6:30 PM and the explanation given to him by the mechanic was- O-ring has been changed, for now, however, a "tappet cover/head plate" would need a replacement and since they don't have the part with them, allow them a weeks time and then bring the car again
  • They told him that the car could be driven for now
  • Along with the 2nd service, my brother also got some paint treatment for the swirls (which is reflected in the invoice)
  • While paying for the 3m coating, my brother realised that no work related to engine cover was mentioned and he asked them to mention it in the invoice
  • Which they did, but it's still not clear as to what exactly was done and which part has been ordered
  • So finally around 6:30 my brother left the service centre

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-job-card.jpg
Job card- General checkup, 2nd free service, engine oil leakage, teflon

Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz-bill.jpg
Initially nothing was mentioned related to the engine, on my brother's insistence, the first section was added (Which still doesn't clarify things)

I feel there's a hint of opaqueness in the developments so far



18th February 2021
  • The post goes live on TeamBHP's news section
  • I received a call from the regional head (the same guy I spoke to yesterday) at 5:05 PM
  • He was apologetic that the problem has resurfaced and its rarest of the rare for them as well
  • I asked him why no one bothered to discuss with the customer when he was waiting there to which he said that he personally had a look at the car and he has discussed it with higher authority and it will be resolved
  • When I asked about what needs to be changed, in his lingo it was "plate assembly" which needs to be replaced and he has placed the order for the same and it will take 7 days to reach them
  • Even he could not give me information about the exact part and he said that he will ask the advisor to send me the part number and details(As of 09:00 PM I have not received any update from them)
  • I also informed about other cases of oil leak as shared by BHPian Leoshashi, to which he had to say that we are constantly working on the improvements for such issues and our team will look forward to it

That's it for now, let's see how things move ahead from this point.

Last edited by sachin_cs : 18th February 2021 at 21:12.
sachin_cs is offline   (19) Thanks
Old 18th February 2021, 21:21   #15
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: India
Posts: 5,413
Thanked: 7,141 Times
Default Re: Oil leakage in a new Tata Altroz

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachin_cs View Post
Update on the status of the Altroz:

17th February 2021
  • The car got ready by 6:30 PM and the explanation given to him by the mechanic was- O-ring has been changed, for now, however, a "tappet cover/head plate" would need a replacement and since they don't have the part with them, allow them a weeks time and then bring the car again

Attachment 2123355
Job card- General checkup, 2nd free service, engine oil leakage, teflon

Attachment 2123354
Initially nothing was mentioned related to the engine, on my brother's insistence, the first section was added (Which still doesn't clarify things)

I feel there's a hint of opaqueness in the developments so far

18th February 2021
  • When I asked about what needs to be changed, in his lingo it was "plate assembly" which needs to be replaced and he has placed the order for the same and it will take 7 days to reach them

That's it for now, let's see how things move ahead from this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Since the leak resumed after changing the O-ring once it may be a manufacturing defect (incorrect tolerance) of the plastic valve cover itself. So I would suggest getting the 0-ring replaced once again (what if it was faulty o-ring again?) and if the leak persists replace the valve cover and O-ring (including others since they are not supposed to be re-used).
Like I suspected the valve cover/tappet cover need to be replaced. Either the part is faulty (good news) or the plastic used to make that is not able to withstand heat cycling (bad news). If its the former the issue would be resolved but if its the latter there is a chance it could manifest again. Seeing other posts with similar leaks from the valve cover I have a faint suspicion of the latter. Anyway make sure that all o-rings and gaskets are replaced and not re-used.
Sankar is offline   (13) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks