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Old 9th June 2021, 09:28   #16
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Hey man, it's a Maruti Dzire AMT.
OK, great. Thanks for the crucial information.

I just did a quick read through our official review of Dzire AMT. As the review clearly says, this is a relatively simple bolt-on job by Maruti. The basic gearbox is same as Dzire MT. I quote below from the official review:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
The AMT mechanism is a simple bolt-on job and it uses the Dzire MT's existing gearbox. It's pretty straightforward in the way it works. Mechanically, the AMT gearbox is identical to the Dzire’ manual transmission. What's different is how the clutch is operated and how the gears are shifted.
This indicates that theoretically, it may be possible to remove the extra actuators, and install the manual shifter. If he finds a competent garage who is expert in such jobs, they might be able to do this.

However, I still do not recommend this. This is going to mess up with the car big time and it will never be the same again. Not worth the risk.

Now coming to my second point about using AMT in Manual mode, luckily, the Dzire AMT does have a Manual mode. Again, quoting below paragraph from the official review, describing the Manual model in Dzire AMT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
The AMT comes equipped with 'Manual mode' that can be engaged by moving the gear shifter to D, and then to the left. Pull the shifter down to upshift and push it up to downshift. In M mode, the transmission does not upshift on its own. Driven hard, the engine will rev to 6,250 rpm. It will not allow you to upshift if it finds the revs too low or downshift if the resultant revvs are too high.

M mode comes in handy when one wants to overtake quickly. While the response time is far from instant, it's still a bit faster than D mode. M mode is useful to bring the engine into its powerband before an overtaking maneuver & also during the actual overtaking (to prevent the AMT from an unintentional + slow upshift while you're overtaking).

Another time when the M mode can be used is when you desire engine braking. Driving downhill, this mode aids engine braking which in turn, reduces the workload on the brakes.
As I said in my original post, using the M mode is the best solution for him in the given situation. Now the M mode is not fault-free, and it will take some time getting used to the behavior of gearbox under Manual shifts. However, I am sure with practice one can master this and enjoy the car in Manual mode. This is much lesser evil than any conversion job.

Further, luckily for him, Dzire AMT will have very good resale value. So in the worst case if he is really adamant on driving a manual car, it may be better to sell off Dzire AMT at a good price and buy another MT car. The net loss (if any, at all) in this transaction will be not much more than the cost required to convert the AMT into MT.
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Old 9th June 2021, 10:12   #17
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Theoretically should be possible, but authorized service center folks(Majority) will not do. You will also have to procure new parts, gear lever, plastic panels etc. which should be possible. You might be able to get these done from an expert FNG. All these may affect warranty.
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Old 9th June 2021, 10:27   #18
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Mechanical changes are in the realm of engineering and can be achieved, no doubt. How about the human interface changes - clutch pedal, gear shifter etc.? Despite best efforts these will make the car look like an engineering school project...
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Old 9th June 2021, 11:00   #19
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Strongly suggest not to convert. It will in the first place affect the reliability. Also, the RC will show that it's an AMT and will have a tough time reselling the car. And we also need to check whether it is legal to convert it into an MT.

I have driven a couple of AMTs and whenever you want to get the feel of an MT slot the stick to manual mode. Dzire AMT has more pep when you drive in the MT mode.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:03   #20
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Definitely should be doable. As Dr.AD mentioned, it totally depends on the system in place. If it's something which is not too electronically controlled, it should be as simple as just swapping the required parts and one should be good to go.

I got done a transmission swap on my old santro xing, I bought it with a dead AT transmission and got it converted to a manual transmission. One will never be able to tell that my car was an AT once, except for the "Automatic" badge on the rear hatch, which has partially fallen off and now reads "utom" .

If it is something which is heavily controlled by the ecu with a lot of sensors, this will make the job a lot tougher, and may involve some coding, etc. But still it should not be impossible to do, and will still be cheaper than selling and buying a new car.

Last edited by Aditya : 9th June 2021 at 21:24. Reason: As requested
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:20   #21
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

The situations.

Pre-Covid -> Covid -> Post-Covid
Traffic -> Less Traffic -> Traffic
No Lockdown -> Lockdown -> No Lockdown
Automatic -> Manual -> Would probably prefer an automatic again.

My suggestion - stick to what you have, the situation keeps on changing.

If you desperately want a manual transmission, get a cheap used car.

BTW - How old is the car? and Is this an itch for a new car?
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:34   #22
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

While engineering may be debated, you will also have to check if this is legally permitted.

Since this is a modification to the OEM specifications of the vehicle, I do not think this is legal as per the new vehicle modification judgement of the Supreme Court.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:45   #23
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

I think it is only the technicalities we need to be worried about and not the traffic. Even if traffic goes back to pre-Covid levels, the OP may have a permanent work from home already in place. Personally, I wouldn't mess with such things. There are 90% chances going wrong in the first place. Once meddled, I don't think even a trusted FNG would have the courage to repair it as the dealer would not touch it because of warranty issues. It would be a hybrid vehicle that has no clue of it's own transmission.

And the when he wants to sell it off, the ad should read - Once AMT, now MT for sale!

Last edited by Raghu M : 9th June 2021 at 12:48. Reason: new content
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Old 9th June 2021, 13:28   #24
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

I dont know what car the OP has, but on my AMT, whenever I feel the need for a Manual, I just switch over to the M mode and do the up-shifts myself. Granted that the downshifts sometimes happen automatically when I am not in the right power band, still, this gives me that deep satisfaction of pushing the RPMs, albeit without using the clutch - which I can live with as I am not doing any hard starts & burnouts Thankfully, we own cars with very sweet engines in the form of Maruti's K10-B and Honda's 1.5L iVTec.

TL;DR - The M mode on my AMT or the Manual Transmission on the City is my 'escape' that fills the need to use a Manual Transmission.
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Old 9th June 2021, 14:27   #25
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

I was in the same boat just a few months back and ended up selling my 2019 Swift AMT. Mind you this was the top spec one with all the bells and whistles.

Reason for buying the Swift AMT - needed a sensible family car coming from a Thar (daily driver for 3 years with a family of 4) and my wife insisted an the automatic.

Reason for selling it incurring big losses -
* couldn't live with the AMT. The engine was good and it was a sweet handler but that gearbox though good enough for an amt was still a compromise and had a mind of its own.

*My wife barely drove it, may be a couple of times.

* I missed my Thar and couldn't stop missing it.

I considered converting and knew of at least one Alfa romeo where the Selespeed was converted to manual on a GTA. Very similar technology. Finally gave up the idea but I still sold the Swift and bought an old diesel Linea. At least it is manual, comfier and still an interesting car.

PS : still miss the Thar!
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Old 9th June 2021, 14:43   #26
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Let's speak what components you are trying to touch or replace:

1. Gear shifter lever.(single cable to dual cable)
2. Gaiter & bezel for Gear shifter lever.
3. Shifter & selector cable instead of shift cable.
4. Clutch master cylinder(CMC)
5. Clutch pedal
6. Hydraulic lines to actuate clutch
7. New Brake fluid reservoir or repair in existing one to have a hydraulic line for CMC.
8. Clutch slave cylinder(CSC)

Now areas of major challenges or things to check with respect to compatibility.
1. Floor to be reworked to have clutch pedal assembly & CMC.
2. Centre console to have MT shifter system & mounting points compatibility.
3. Hydraulic lines routing (should be easy though)
4. Clutch slave cylinder.
5. Engine mapping with TCU/AMT map needs to be remapped with MT map.

Normally in AMT's hydraulic release system(CSC) is replaced by electro mechanical release system. So tolerance stack up needs to be checked for AMT clutch release system to CSC replacement to ensure proper clutch release when pedal is pressed.

Hence, overall, CSC compatibility plays a major role.

Approx Cost impact: Max 1 Lakh.
Pro's: you get MT car, with low cost.
Con's: will be tedious to put all AT system back &overall stock system of the car will be disturbed once for all.

My recommendation would be to use this repair cost(1lakh) & put another 1 lakh to get a pre-worshipped Swift petrol. Its peppy & fun to drive + well within the budget. You can use it as a beater as well.
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Old 9th June 2021, 14:51   #27
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Balamurali drops in this unique query...
Quote:
I was recently searching for an unusual topic throughout the web i.e. Removing the AMT module from my car. Reason = purchase was made pre-covid. Now that the situation has changed and expected daily travel in traffic has reduced greatly, I would like to get back to the joy of shifting an MT. Rather than buying a manual car, removal of the AMT module should be possible (in theory) according to me. Since this is a unique topic without much content available online, would suggest to open a thread for experts to answer.
All right, so it seems Mr. Balamurali is not actually very serious about the conversion, but would like to find out more about the pros & cons / feasibility of such a conversion in theory. So here goes:

Theoretically: It's easy to convert from AMT to MT. Remove the actuator motors, put in manual shifters, and drive on. And that sounds about as easy as doing a heart transplant in a Hindi movie.

BUT

Technically / Practically: First off, the chassis. The "window" to fit the MT shifter is shaped differently from that of the AMT. And there's no clutch pedal or its associated apertures in the AMT car, so mounting the pedal accurately would be a challenge. In fact, to install these would be a mammoth task. Then, the control cables for both clutch and gear shift - can they be installed and routed reliably? The ECM - the ports that control the AMT gear shift need to be re-programmed - or there will be a CEL on forever, and the engine may not rev as desired. An orthopaedic surgeon would probably do a Total Knee Replacement (TKR) surgery more easily.

SO

Why?: The MT supposedly keeps both knees active, and AMT denies the driver the much-needed left leg usage & exercise - lack of which may lead to the driver needing a TKR later on in life. So TKR is easier and more reliable than AMT -> MT conversion. And there are plenty of MT equipped Dzires in the market across the country.

I'd say: Swap the car, not the gear shift system.
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Old 9th June 2021, 21:19   #28
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

If he really wants the MT, simple thing to do is to sell the AMT, buy a similarly run MT and save some money in the process
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Old 9th June 2021, 22:42   #29
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Maybe this would help out



Edd China, Wheeler Dealers.
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Old 10th June 2021, 04:57   #30
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Default Re: Possible to remove the AMT module and convert a car back to manual gearbox?

Driving a Dzire AMT for 2.5 years, I can totally relate to him why does he needs to switch to MT. AMT totally spoils the mood of spirited driving and is best for heavy traffic conditions.

While I would not say that it is impossible, since AMT module is a simple bolt on job by Maruti Suzuki, changing mechanicals would be rather easier than handling the ECU. There are people who install an auto clutch in MT and I suppose they can do reverse as well.

Rather what I would advise him, to use M mode for that better control over gears / revv range and most importantly if he can explore, get the ECU remapped. It wont do miracles in gearbox but would improve shift points and drivability. At least it worked for me, and now I plan to retain my car for atleast 5 years.
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