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Old 25th June 2021, 09:59   #31
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Sorry that you had to go through this hassle. It is really frustrating to see such problems after you spend lakhs of rupees on a premium car. That coupled with the horrible VAG A.S.S. is a nightmare for all the customers.

I feel by this point we have DSG grievances at least twice a week on our forum across the stable of VW models.

My only advice would be to deal with these people firmly. As automotive enthusiasts we definitely have a level of respect and politeness while dealing with SAs/Service Centre employees but sometimes we can be taken for a ride for our 'niceness', this has been my recurring experience with VW.

Hope this gets sorted out permanently and do keep us updated!
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Old 25th June 2021, 11:19   #32
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Really sorry to hear about these issues. I didn't have many apprehensions about the DQ381's reliability since it belongs to the VAG wet clutch DSG family, and these in general have been quite reliable all throughout.

Coming to your issue, the timing chain like noise you describe. Is it coming from the left hand side or the right hand side of the car when you are seated in the driver's seat? If it is coming from the right, please ask them to check the timing chain as well urgently. It might point to a much more serious issue with the chain or the tensioner. If it's constantly coming from the left, then it's the DSG gearbox.

Like someone mentioned here, VW did make a screw up of underfilling certain DQ381s out of the factory. The only option you have in such a case is to drain the transmission and fill fresh new oil with a new filter. Also measure how much fluid comes out of the GB.
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Old 25th June 2021, 11:20   #33
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Default Re: My Volkswagen Tiguan Allspace - Ownership Review & Upkeep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhruv29 View Post

It's a gearbox of a premium car costing 40 Lacs ! Not a low budget AMT gearbox that these sort of behaviour is acceptable. Probably those gearbox would be more silent than this rattle can.
I would say that such issues are not even acceptable in AMTs since this is a clear indicator that something is amiss and would eventually fail leading to a complete breakdown.

Secondly AMTs are getting reliable day by day specially from Maruti and issues like these are less common than drivetrain issues in DSGs and DCTs. Whats heartbreaking is the inability and incompetence of the manufacturer to fix things in an efficient manner. I can't imagine myself visiting service center for anything than a routine yearly service. Hope you able to get this resolved asap and enjoy an otherwise great car.
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Old 25th June 2021, 11:27   #34
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Can you check the below:

1. Drive in manual/Tip Tronic mode and see if the noise appears.
2. Drive in D mode with pedal to metal scenario (remove the mats if any) and see if the Gbox jerks/shudders
3. Drive in S mode with pedal to metal scenario and see if the Gbox jerks/shudders
4. Get the flywheel checked along with clutch wear
5. Get the synchronizers checked (would require opening of gbox- should be the thing you should get done on the gbox after you get a replacement)

Personally think it is syncro/shifting mechanism (mecha part of the mechatronics)

Last edited by 1.2TSI7DSG : 25th June 2021 at 11:38.
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Old 25th June 2021, 13:01   #35
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Hi,

As them to check your crankshaft position sensor. this is a common problem in many different makes when the crankshaft position sensor is failing.

The crankshaft position starts giving erratic readings after the engine heats up fully and runs for some time, and doesn't throw an error code with the scanner as it resets every time you switch off the car. Most ASS cannot diagnose this issue due to reasons i cannot understand. Its a small part but very painful and difficult to detect when faulty.

Your car symptoms match with this issue.

Best of luck!

Jaideep
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Old 25th June 2021, 13:18   #36
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

It would be interesting to see what percentage of traditional AT is used the world over, especially in USA, which probably has the largest AT vehicle population. I would venture to think it is more than 90%. I dont know why some manufacturers try to impose a particular type of transmission which is known to be less reliable and more complex overall. Exactly what is the performance/efficiency gain that would be achieved, given that companies are now also voluntarily imposing an upper speed limit (like Volvo) on their cars in any case.
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Old 25th June 2021, 14:59   #37
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Literally shocked that the Service Tech cudnt differentiate between a Knock and gearbox fumbling. That racket was a clear sound of the engine knocking. They shud have immediately checked the Knock counter from VCDs and then proceeded onto check engine timing/retard, Camshaft position sensor data etc. Gud u tested with high RON petrol.
Brings me back to my point, why the hell fo we pay for after sales service if technicians are so incompetent. I have repeatedly seen that customers have a sub par experience due to the after sales chaps than the product itself!

Last edited by adneo : 25th June 2021 at 15:01.
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Old 25th June 2021, 15:01   #38
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

It’s clear:

- DCT’s are absolutely not niggle-free and less reliable or durable
- CVT’s are no fun
- AMT’s are lame

This renews my interest on manual gearbox. Less headache, less electronics, more reliability, more durability, more fun!

Sad that DSG issue-plagued cars and relevant threads are now appearing so frequently on the forum. GTO’s words keeps humming in my head - DSG’s are not reliable but are pure fun! A deal with the devil at end of the day.

Hope your car is fixed soon and returned to you in pristine condition.
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Old 25th June 2021, 15:14   #39
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gururajrv View Post
This renews my interest on manual gearbox. Less headache, less electronics, more reliability, more durability, more fun!
Torque convertors automatics havent let me down ... yet.

The ZF in the BMW's is fun too.
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Old 25th June 2021, 15:28   #40
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

So the new Q381 gearbox which is also given in other VAG cars like new Skoda Octavia and Superb has also started showing it's colours(though nothing substantial yet).

I wonder how this will affect the prospective buyers. I hope this doesn't turn out to be as problematic as it's predecessor Q200.

VAG must proactively resolve OP's issues and give him joy of calm and peaceful ownership for which he invested in European technology.
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Old 25th June 2021, 16:58   #41
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

DCT gearboxes do make faint clicking noises when shifting, stopping and moving off. I have noticed this on Ford and Hyundai. So I would think it is the same for all. Also there is a bit of that characteristic shudder when starting off. But no noise as loud as this. This definitely calls for a replacement if they can't identify what's broken. It's a mechanical problem for sure that lies outside what the feedback from the sensors can identify. Hence the lack of error codes.

I am happy that I moved away from the DCT back over to the torque converter system. I was never satisfied with my Hyundai DCT because it seemed to always telling me to go easy though it never caused any problem as such. I am a free bird now with my BMW X1 20d with its Aisin box. It's a load of fun too with a CRD3+ tuning box. The gearbox handles the increased oomph with no trouble.
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Old 25th June 2021, 18:07   #42
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
It would be interesting to see what percentage of traditional AT is used the world over, especially in USA, which probably has the largest AT vehicle population. I would venture to think it is more than 90%.
I believe there is a good number of CVTs sold in USA by Toyota, Honda and Nissan
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Old 25th June 2021, 19:21   #43
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Just went through your entire thread, this car has given you problems for a while it seems. Whats the latest update, has there been any resolution.
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Old 25th June 2021, 21:22   #44
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Default Re: My Volkswagen Tiguan Allspace - Ownership Review & Upkeep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Can this be attributed to anything relating to the mountings? I am not able to make why will gearbox noise will be any different in bumps?

Have you driven any other similar car? Can you check another and try to find if itís any different.
The mountings were checked twice over a period of different visits. There weren't any excessive movements.
My theory is that selector forks inside must be rattling in bumps.
I haven't tested any other vehicle. But i clearly remember that this noise started around 3k km on clock.
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Old 25th June 2021, 21:43   #45
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Default re: Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: Getting new gearbox!

Quick Update:

Today VW India approved replacement of complete gearbox assembly and order for it is placed by the dealer. As there is no stock of it in India, it would have to come from Germany. I'm expecting 2-3 weeks transit time for it to come here.
The dealer had to record real time data using VCDS when noise was occuring as per demands by VW, but again there were no fault whatsoever.
As per engineers, this is pointing towards failure of oil pump in gearbox as it's a total mechanical part and won't be having any fault codes etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
Really sorry to hear about these issues. I didn't have many apprehensions about the DQ381's reliability since it belongs to the VAG wet clutch DSG family, and these in general have been quite reliable all throughout.

Coming to your issue, the timing chain like noise you describe. Is it coming from the left hand side or the right hand side of the car when you are seated in the driver's seat? If it is coming from the right, please ask them to check the timing chain as well urgently. It might point to a much more serious issue with the chain or the tensioner. If it's constantly coming from the left, then it's the DSG gearbox.

The noise came from engine drive belt area, which'll be towards right side of steering wheel. But if something was wrong with engine tensioner/chain it should be a regular fault occuring everyday even in city driving. Which isn't the case here.
The engine just follows a combustion cycle depending upon RPM.
It's the gearbox which takes care of power delivery and puts stress on engine depending upon load required. Engine just reacts to what is asked by the ECU/transmission.

Like someone mentioned here, VW did make a screw up of underfilling certain DQ381s out of the factory. The only option you have in such a case is to drain the transmission and fill fresh new oil with a new filter. Also measure how much fluid comes out of the GB.
The Gearbox fluid was tested for any metal shavings/quantity. Passed in flying colors in quantity as well as quantity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.2TSI7DSG View Post
Can you check the below:

1. Drive in manual/Tip Tronic mode and see if the noise appears.
2. Drive in D mode with pedal to metal scenario (remove the mats if any) and see if the Gbox jerks/shudders
3. Drive in S mode with pedal to metal scenario and see if the Gbox jerks/shudders
4. Get the flywheel checked along with clutch wear
5. Get the synchronizers checked (would require opening of gbox- should be the thing you should get done on the gbox after you get a replacement)

Personally think it is syncro/shifting mechanism (mecha part of the mechatronics)
Mechatronics was opened and inspected during last visit, it was deemed good condition by engineers. In pedal to metal scenarios, i couldn't replicate fault.
It only did occur after driving for 30-40km in normal traffic conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaideepshinh View Post
Hi,

As them to check your crankshaft position sensor. this is a common problem in many different makes when the crankshaft position sensor is failing.

The crankshaft position starts giving erratic readings after the engine heats up fully and runs for some time, and doesn't throw an error code with the scanner as it resets every time you switch off the car. Most ASS cannot diagnose this issue due to reasons i cannot understand. Its a small part but very painful and difficult to detect when faulty.

Your car symptoms match with this issue.

Best of luck!

Jaideep
The dealer recorded realtime transmission and engine sensors output during noise and sluggish acceleration, all sensors were working within spec.
Hopefully after replacement of gearbox the issue doesn't occur again, if it does i'll keep this in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adneo View Post
Literally shocked that the Service Tech cudnt differentiate between a Knock and gearbox fumbling. That racket was a clear sound of the engine knocking. They shud have immediately checked the Knock counter from VCDs and then proceeded onto check engine timing/retard, Camshaft position sensor data etc. Gud u tested with high RON petrol.
Brings me back to my point, why the hell fo we pay for after sales service if technicians are so incompetent. I have repeatedly seen that customers have a sub par experience due to the after sales chaps than the product itself!
Whenever noise occured, it was filled with XP95. Again, data was tested real time during noise but VCDS showed nothing unusual.
The only time i did fill it with XP100, the noise was resolved suddenly. Maybe start/stop cycle did the trick that time.
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