How can a driver know that wheels are close to locking ?

enzo10 · 22nd May 2009, 11:47

Especially, Indica Turbo brakes lock-up very easily once they get wet. its as if the car wants to throw the driver out of the windscreen, its that bad

muralisk · 22nd May 2009, 11:53

Not very sure if we can say exactly at what point the wheels get locked, but I guess we need to use our experience and instincts and take defensive action. In cold countries, there is always a danger of hitting a ice patch and siding away and there isn't much the driver can do.

When your wheels get locked, the steering would get quite easy and there would be no response on your car's movement.

On the other hand, it always helps to pump the breaks even when there is no need to do so, so that we can get this braking method into our subconscious and there by avoid locking wheels.

greenhorn · 22nd May 2009, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by enzo10

Especially, Indica Turbo brakes lock-up very easily once they get wet. its as if the car wants to throw the driver out of the windscreen, its that bad

enzo, I'm sure the wheels locking up while wet have more to do with the tyres than the brakes. I'm upgrading to better rubber the first chance I get.

What rubber is your car wearing? Mine is still running on stock S322's - havent havent lost grip while braking on the highway, ever.

but have pulled a few skids and wheelspins on local roads after the rains

enzo10 · 22nd May 2009, 12:17

true greenhorn, my mention of lockup was misleading. i meant excess grip. when the brakes are wet, they just stop the vehicle instantly however gently you apply the brake. dont face this problem in dry condition. mine is also running stock S322 at 32k kms still some 10k kms life left.

pranavt · 22nd May 2009, 13:47

Best place to lock your wheels is in a muddy area. It's just too easy. With rains approaching, go to an empty area. Chances are, if it's open, there should be some mud.

Another place is underground parking lots which have tiles. But this can get a bit hairy since they're full of fat pillars and the security will not be too keen on allowing a newbie to learn driving where other customers park their cars.

Cement roads are also a good place. The best if you want to learn imo, since the tyres will actually have grip if not locked, as opposed to pretty much ice-skating in wet/tiled places.

equinox22 · 22nd May 2009, 20:59

A lot depends on the surface on which the wheels lock. If it is snow then there are times when locking may actually improve the braking performance. On the other hand if the road is icy there is not much one can do whether the wheels lock or not.

bblost · 22nd May 2009, 21:22

I do this on my bike every few months.
A controlled brake test.
Take her to a good speed. Mark a spot a few meters ahead. I brake and get the bike to stop before I cross it.
Depending on road conditions, I let the front wheel lock up.
And cause the bike to drag itself with the rear trying to overtake the front.

On the car, I do a similar exercise, but don't push it till it actually locks itself.

Every time on my bike/car can become a practise run.
If the road is completely clear of everything, no shrubs on any any side. Road surface dry and clean.

I don't know what I am practising for, but when the time comes, I pray I am ready.

silver_shadow · 22nd May 2009, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblost

I do this on my bike every few months.
A controlled brake test.
Take her to a good speed. Mark a spot a few meters ahead. I brake and get the bike to stop before I cross it.
Depending on road conditions, I let the front wheel lock up.
And cause the bike to drag itself with the rear trying to overtake the front.

On the car, I do a similar exercise, but don't push it till it actually locks itself.

Every time on my bike/car can become a practise run.
If the road is completely clear of everything, no shrubs on any any side. Road surface dry and clean.

I don't know what I am practising for, but when the time comes, I pray I am ready.

i'll tell you what you are practicing for.

i've had this happen to me at least 3x while riding my old KB100. so i'm coming along at decent speed and suddenly from out of nowhere some idiot darts into my path, all 3 times there was not much road to swerve so i jam the brakes, mind you both drums. wheels "lock" (can i use that term for drums?). and the rear starts to try and get ahead of the front causing me to move sideways. but don't panic, grab the clutch, release the brakes, spread eagle my legs slightly, yea i think my feet may have even momentarily touched the ground and both wheels regain grip on the road, bike slowed down and still with the hand on clutch change to a lower gear. and i'm saved from what seemed like a certain crash!

GenuineOptimist · 23rd May 2009, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

enzo, I'm sure the wheels locking up while wet have more to do with the tyres than the brakes. I'm upgrading to better rubber the first chance I get.

What rubber is your car wearing? Mine is still running on stock S322's - havent havent lost grip while braking on the highway, ever.

but have pulled a few skids and wheelspins on local roads after the rains

I have an Indica Turbo with ABS. Only once in Mysore Road I got the chance to test the ABS because of an unexpected speed breaker appearing when I was at 90kmph. I stood on the brakes. The car behaved admirably, no locking-skidding, no rear-overtaking-front, I was able to steer and brake distance was minimal.

However on rains, I am kinda scared. The brakes seem to function roughly. A small movement of the brake pedal causes a relatively sudden stoppage compared to normal conditions. So on rains I normally drive slow.

Anyone has an idea why this happens in rains. I don't have stock tires too. I upgraded it to Michelin XM1+ with R14. (I'm a safety freak)

22nd May 2009, 11:47	#16
enzo10 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 61 Thanked: 24 Times	Especially, Indica Turbo brakes lock-up very easily once they get wet. its as if the car wants to throw the driver out of the windscreen, its that bad
	() Thanks

22nd May 2009, 11:53	#17
muralisk BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hyderabad, Bangalore Posts: 711 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Not very sure if we can say exactly at what point the wheels get locked, but I guess we need to use our experience and instincts and take defensive action. In cold countries, there is always a danger of hitting a ice patch and siding away and there isn't much the driver can do. When your wheels get locked, the steering would get quite easy and there would be no response on your car's movement. On the other hand, it always helps to pump the breaks even when there is no need to do so, so that we can get this braking method into our subconscious and there by avoid locking wheels. Last edited by muralisk : 22nd May 2009 at 11:54.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2009, 12:17	#19
enzo10 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 61 Thanked: 24 Times	true greenhorn, my mention of lockup was misleading. i meant excess grip. when the brakes are wet, they just stop the vehicle instantly however gently you apply the brake. dont face this problem in dry condition. mine is also running stock S322 at 32k kms still some 10k kms life left.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2009, 13:47	#20
pranavt Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,682 Thanked: 641 Times View My Garage	Best place to lock your wheels is in a muddy area. It's just too easy. With rains approaching, go to an empty area. Chances are, if it's open, there should be some mud. Another place is underground parking lots which have tiles. But this can get a bit hairy since they're full of fat pillars and the security will not be too keen on allowing a newbie to learn driving where other customers park their cars. Cement roads are also a good place. The best if you want to learn imo, since the tyres will actually have grip if not locked, as opposed to pretty much ice-skating in wet/tiled places.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2009, 20:59	#21
equinox22 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago/Pune Posts: 165 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	A lot depends on the surface on which the wheels lock. If it is snow then there are times when locking may actually improve the braking performance. On the other hand if the road is icy there is not much one can do whether the wheels lock or not.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2009, 21:22	#22
bblost Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 11,008 Thanked: 15,352 Times View My Garage	I do this on my bike every few months. A controlled brake test. Take her to a good speed. Mark a spot a few meters ahead. I brake and get the bike to stop before I cross it. Depending on road conditions, I let the front wheel lock up. And cause the bike to drag itself with the rear trying to overtake the front. On the car, I do a similar exercise, but don't push it till it actually locks itself. Every time on my bike/car can become a practise run. If the road is completely clear of everything, no shrubs on any any side. Road surface dry and clean. I don't know what I am practising for, but when the time comes, I pray I am ready.
	() Thanks