[audioholic]

Originally Posted by marathp

Any words of wisdom on why these issues were not diagnosed during the million KMs of testing in real conditions as claimed by Skoda?

That would count if those millions of KMs was done without any defects or niggles cropping up. Usually test cars have numerous replacements, software updates and issues due to the fact that everything is new and being experimented upon. Those replacements would have been continuously made and its not like the same part would have been tested throughout the period. Hence those million kms do not say anything about how reliable or trouble free the cars would be. It is just a way of showing how much effort has been put in developing the product and tweaking things like suspension, performance NVH etc. Of course, wear and tear is also monitored and any premature failures would be addressed. But electronic issues are normally dealt on a bench while the mechanical topics are handled in the field.

But very sad to see these latest developments with so many issues being reported. From the pricing to these niggles cropping up so soon, it looks to me that Skoda/Volkswagen have been pretty overconfident with the twins in another aspect now.
Claim 1: We have highly localised the product and have developed the product with the Indian market in mind and have provided only what is most expected out of the car.
Reality: The localisation and several compromises like rear drums, several feature deletions compared to T-Cross, lack of six airbags on automatic trims dont seem to benefit the price at which the car is sold.

Claim 2: The product has been extensively tested and covered XX kms of distance across India and we have worked hard to develop this.
Reality: How many times did the cars face issues? How many instances of EPC light came up and how many breakdowns?

I hope the list doesnt continue..

[pradheepsr]

I would like to buy any new product (barring some premium German brands) launched in the market after waiting at least 6 months to 1 year post launch.

Had a few bitter experiences the past ,especially with Tata cars.

We were the 1st to own a Indica (Indica DLX) in our city. Since my Dad was very close to the dealer, we were fortunate enough to get our car in the 1st lot. Right from the 1st week of delivery to the date we sold it (after 4 years)we had innumerous niggles. From those fiddly AC switches, power windows, heavy clutch, etc. ,all had their share.

When the Indica V2 launched a couple of years later, almost all those niggles were rectified and it appeared as if it was reborn. The rest is history as they say.

Similar experience with the Tiago (XZA).I faced a lot of issues with the infotainment and electronics when I bought it. The dealer was kind enough to treat them under warranty though. But the current gen seems to be safer and reliable.

We did own a few from the Maruti suzuki stable(Zen,800)during that timeline, however we hardly had as much niggles as the Tatas did. But those cars were well in to their 2nd gen when we bought.

I think that's the learning phase the VAG group is going through at the moment. Releasing a brand new and almost a fully localised product is by no means an easy task. However I was not expecting such issues cropping up in the new age Skoda-VW cars after having done all the homework and testing locally.

Expecting the VAG group to bounce back soon and to brush away all those niggles to make quality cars that last for a lifetime.

Atleast that's what they are known for in this world. DAS AUTO.

[eccentric]

Originally Posted by pradheepsr

Expecting the VAG group to bounce back soon and to brush away all those niggles to make quality cars that last for a lifetime.

Lifetime? I don't think so. There's this concept called, "Planned obsolescence." Almost every manufacturer has adopted this philosophy into their design adage. Now, components are designed to fail prematurely say right after the warranty window expires. So, if you want to continue with the same car, the manufacturer levies you a high price tag for a substandard OEM part which you know will ultimately fail within the next designated time frame. Subconsciously, the manufacturers force us to buy a new car every 4 years or so.

Example: Our Swift 2009 VDi had a thermostat valve body made out of Cast metal whereas the current revised part is a Plastic injection molded one. IMO, pre-2013 automobiles were built to last and the automobile scenario has changed drastically thereafter compromising on build quality for features, fuel efficiency and creature comforts.

The only way to buy a better-quality product is either to buy a CBU/CKD at the earliest in spite of the initial exorbitant price tag. I've worked in a German OEM before. Every component manufactured has to surpass a minimum value for a property say Tensile strength/ Yield/ Fatigue prescribed by a standard. While the imported components easily exceed the highest level of the standard, the localized ones will fail to cross even the baseline. However, eventually as time progresses, these localized ones will replace the imported ones in favor of cost reduction contributing to the overall profit of the organization. End Result: Customer gets a trash can even after paying 20 odd lakhs!

Meanwhile we are willing to replace our aging Swift with the 1.5 TSI since this unit is an imported one and presuming no such cost cutting measures would have been done to this. It's been a month since I heard from Aura Motors and the availability of 1.5 TSI Kushaq for TD is still unknown!

Note to the Moderators: Kindly edit or delete this post if you feel any sections of this post violate the community guidelines. Thanks!

[pradheepsr]

Originally Posted by eccentric

Lifetime? I don't think so. There's this concept called, "Planned obsolescence." Almost every manufacturer has adopted this philosophy into their design adage. Now, components are designed to fail prematurely say right after the warranty window expires. So, if you want to continue with the same car, the manufacturer levies you a high price tag for a substandard OEM part which you know will ultimately fail within the next designated time frame. Subconsciously, the manufacturers force us to buy a new car every 4 years or so.

Example: Our Swift 2009 VDi had a thermostat valve body made out of Cast metal whereas the current revised part is a Plastic injection molded one. IMO, pre-2013 automobiles were built to last and the automobile scenario has changed drastically thereafter compromising on build quality for features, fuel efficiency and creature comforts.

The only way to buy a better-quality product is either to buy a CBU/CKD at the earliest in spite of the initial exorbitant price tag. I've worked in a German OEM before. Every component manufactured has to surpass a minimum value for a property say Tensile strength/ Yield/ Fatigue prescribed by a standard. While the imported components easily exceed the highest level of the standard, the localized ones will fail to cross even the baseline.

Then the ideal place for us to buy quality cars rather than junks that are designed to fail prematurely must be Europe (Bavaria to be exact).

God! I loved the Golf and Passat whilst I was in the UK ,whereas here I had to think twice before getting a Polo TSI/Taigun/Kushaq.

Then according to you the safest bet if you want a quality VAG product would be only the T-roc/Tiguan.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by eccentric

The only way to buy a better-quality product is either to buy a CBU/CKD at the earliest in spite of the initial exorbitant price tag. I've worked in a German OEM before. Every component manufactured has to surpass a minimum value for a property say Tensile strength/ Yield/ Fatigue prescribed by a standard. While the imported components easily exceed the highest level of the standard, the localized ones will fail to cross even the baseline.

Perhaps not the ideal thread to sell German quality. German companies are also asking Indian firms to design things and then manufacture those things in China, lets not give unnecessary credit to these fellows.

In general imported cars are not Indianized enough to survive on our roads, so if your suspension gives up prematurely or your tires blow out every two months, or your AC compressor is shot, or your car starts to leak coolant and over heat or its gearbox gives up - don't blame our roads and our weather because the little M800 did just fine - This is just shoddy German engineering.

[eccentric]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Perhaps not the ideal thread to sell German quality. German companies are also asking Indian firms to design things and then manufacture those things in China, lets not give unnecessary credit to these fellows.

In general imported cars are not Indianized enough to survive on our roads, so if your suspension gives up prematurely or your tires blow out every two months, or your AC compressor is shot, or your car starts to leak coolant and over heat or its gearbox gives up - don't blame our roads and our weather because the little M800 did just fine - This is just shoddy German engineering.

What I intended was, how a minor change in part level affects the assembly level thereby leading to operational failure of the whole parent assembly. As an example, a localized bolt in an imported tensioner assembly resulted in the premature failure of the whole unit.

Yes, I understand the quirks and perks of owning an imported car in the Indian conditions. But comparing with a M800 is not needed in this context.
With all due respect, neither selling nor giving unnecessary credit to any German quality or engineering here, Mr. Kosfactor.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Sadly more owners find themselves stranded on the roads, some even for a second time in just 20 days of ownership.

[headbanger]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Sadly more owners find themselves stranded on the roads, some even for a second time in just 20 days of ownership.

I was one among those many who were waiting for Kushaq ever since the test mules started circulating on social media. When it was launched at a premium, I had my share of discussions with fellow Bhpians on Skoda's positioning and brand and what not. I made peace with what was on offer and if I didn't agree with the reasoning behind the pricing.

But seeing all this, I feel relieved for not being one of those who are facing the brunt and saddens me no end on the disappointment from a consumer's standpoint.

For all what stands today and irrespective of how Skoda manages to handle this, I ain't gonna touch a new Skoda product with a barge pole.

[amol4184]

VAG cars breaking down left, right, center and off center. People : I will only buy Polo over any other car in 12L budget.

Rearview mirror vibrates going at 297kmph in Altroz. People : This is why I buy VAG cars and will not touch Tata Mahindra for next 5 generations.

I remember an unhinged comment here where someone suggested court should ban Mahindra from manufacturing Thar and spare parts so that will punish existing customers who purchased the car and teach them a lesson not purchase such car again.

I don't see any of such comments ever in VW threads :S

[RD150]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Sadly more owners find themselves stranded on the roads, some even for a second time in just 20 days of ownership.

For new launched cars, small niggles like touchscreen infotainment issues, issues related to fit & finish, parts of interiors coming off are understandable. But car breaking down or refusing to start is a nightmare. After testing it for lacs of kilometres, why was this EPC failure not resolved? Was this a rushed launch?

Originally Posted by amol4184

VAG cars breaking down left, right, center and off center. People : I will only buy Polo over any other car in 12L budget.

People are buying the Polo, beacuse it has been here for quite a while. Probality of a Polo failing is much lower than the probability of a newly launched car like Kushaq failing.

[adventureseeker]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

They are not trivial - imagine you moved the seat back while existing the vehicle yesterday and today morning the seat switches do not respond. You have to be an Orangutan to drive the Safari now (reminiscent of old indica). This happened for real and the ASC told the owner to come back later to fix it as he does not know what to do. Now only the tallest person can drive it.

Skoda definitely has more experience in making cars in the higher price range, that does not mean that their gearbox won't break down, at least they will know what to replace.

The problem is that in the name of German quality and premiumness Skoda India launched a car belonging to the segment of Nexon with the price tag of a Harrier and having the reliability of a version 1 Indica The point is people in this forum are outraging more against an Android auto connectivity issue in value for money Tata than a comparatively serious breakdown and stranding in the middle of the road issue of the premium Skodas .And these premium german cars are breaking down twice even after spending days for repairs and replacements in the premium German trained personnel's workshops

https://www.facebook.com/groups/skod...6710668285866/

One more breakdown reported on the facebook group of Kushaq owners. This is turning out to be a nightmare

[swoosh]

Two more incidents reported today.






Looking at the number of EPC issues, how did Skoda miss it in 1 lakh km testing? or they ignored the issue and decided to fix it on the production? This is not acceptable for any new car. As others said, minor niggles are inevitable but a total breakdown is terrible for a new car. I will certainly not have the confidence to drive the same car again.

on a lighter note:

[pta320]

I feel sorry for the people who spend their hard earned money on such cars.

It's a shame to see one year old cars having failed transmission, engine problems, critical parts being replaced under warranty. Imagine what it will be like to own such unreliable piles of junk once the warranty is over. It's also a shame to see people not feeling confident to take such cars on road trips.

Not only with Kushaq, there are too many cases of other VAG cars like Superb, Octavia, Vento breaking down prematurely. And those cars which somehow manage to last 8-10 years after many parts being replaced continue to demand excessive maintenance roughly 5-6x times that of other Asian cars. On top of that these cars continue to be over complex and changing even basic things requires you to visit the dealer.

It's a high time people who don't have a lot of technical knowledge about cars be made aware what they are stepping into by buying such cars. If most of the people stop buying these cars and neglect these manufacturers, hopefully they will start working on reliability of their cars.

We need more manufacturers like Toyota and Honda which make cars that rarely ever break down or rarely require any major maintenance. I am yet to see a Toyota owner sad with the purchase unlike bunch of Skoda customers taking the dealer over to the consumer court.

Ofcourse if you have got 15-20 lakhs to throw away, sure go ahead a buy a German car. It may serve you well as a weekend toy and might give you some fun for quite a while but as a daily driver, these cars will take your every saving with them in the grave.

[vinu_h]

EPC issue - I had a similar issue with my Superb but the car didn't stall fortunately. Here is the link to the post (Skoda Superb : Official Review). As you can tell, all the dealer did was reset the warning via OBD.

[Kosfactor]

^ @Vinu - Is this a problem caused by new vehicles running low on fuel and perhaps air getting into the fuel lines?