[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by shancz

After reading through your thread, this is the kick I needed to push me towards DIY, Thanks.

You do not need any power tools to do a basic service on your vehicle. However, if you are not sure about the basic procedures then I would suggest procuring a copy of the service manual (mainly for the torque figures) and/or watch some videos about the servicing of your vehicle if you can find them. And obviously, you would need proper tools but those are usually a one-time investment with guaranteed returns for their entire lifetime.

Originally Posted by shancz

... the amount of wastage that happens in any service center makes me wonder if these guys would do the same if they had to pay the bill. I am not just talking of money but also the wasted consumables/parts which were changed prematurely to jack up the bills.

You have reiterated my thoughts exactly. Let me share an incident which my son witnessed during our Creta's 2nd service at the Hyundai ASC. Since that service coincided with a Hyundai service campaign, they offered a free 64 point checkup of our car. One of those 64 point checkups was spark plug inspection. After taking out the spark plug from cylinder number 1, the spark plug somehow slipped from the service person's hands and dropped to the floor. He just picked it up and continued removing the other 3 as if nothing had happened. He cleaned all 4 spark plugs properly with WD-40. He didn't even check whether the spark plug's gap had been altered due to the fall. Anyway, he then cleaned all 4 spark plugs with a clean rag and then proceeded to reinstall them back in our car. This is when my son intervened and requested the service person to do a basic conduction test on the spark plugs with a multimeter. The service person flatly refused but my son was persistent. Eventually, he agreed and as expected one of the spark plugs failed the test (I wonder which one ). The service person then went away to get fresh spark plugs. When he returned my son was pleasantly surprised to see that all the 4 new spark plugs were iridium-tipped. However, my son had to request the service person again to check the gaps and conductivities of the new ones. To cut a long story short, we got 4 iridium-tipped spark plugs for free. But 4 spark plugs were wasted because of a simple mistake.

Originally Posted by shancz

How do you check for impurities/contaminants from the cooling system components ? I just do a visual check opening the radiator cap.

There are only a few ways the coolant can go bad. If the coolant becomes greyish milky or yoghurt-like, that indicates the mixing of engine oil which can only happen if there is a leak in the head gasket of the engine or a crack in the engine block or a damaged heat-exchange mechanism. Unless there were impurities in the concentrated coolant or distilled water itself, impurities can enter the coolant reservoir by themselves only through the small hole on the coolant reservoir that exists to facilitate the balance of pressure inside and outside the coolant system. However, the amount of dirt that can enter through that hole is too little to make any substantial difference unless we go too long without replacing the coolant fluid mixture in the car. Another way the coolant can go bad is when it breaks down chemically or when there is too much of fine metal dust in the coolant. If the coolant breaks down chemically then you can easily find out about it by checking it with a refractometer. On the other hand, if the coolant starts conducting electricity then a multimeter will definitely let you know. Other than these you can use a cheap TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) tester for testing the purity of the distilled water before using that water on your car. Ideally, distilled water should have a TDS reading of zero. Other than these, right now I cannot think of any other way the coolant in your car getting contaminated.

Thank you for the kind words and hope that you jump on the DIY bandwagon soon

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

- You do not need any power tools to do a basic service on your vehicle.
- And obviously, you would need proper tools but those are usually a one-time investment with guaranteed returns for their entire lifetime.

- I was only talking about the brake/caliper greasing which needs to take down all wheels, power tools would greatly reduce the time involved but can't buy those.
- I am usually away from my hometown(i.e. location of the car) so wasn't sure about getting something which wouldn't be used that often but since servicing is an annual thing anyway, like you said worth the investment. Not to forget the fun factor.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

- You have reiterated my thoughts exactly.

I will spare my experiences with various incidents at the SC/FNGs, they won't just derail the thread but will also qualify as horror stories in automotive terms

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

- Other than these, right now I cannot think of any other way the coolant in your car getting contaminated.

Got it, thanks for the info. I have seen that milky concoction once on our earlier car due to a blown gasket so can't forget that.
Impurities became a concern only after reading a thread here but that was on a rarely used car and after many years without a coolant change, had some orangish spots which was rust from somewhere in the system. The SCs check that as well.
But like you said not a concern on my car.
I am going to stick with the coolant change at 20k/2yrs, as prescribed since my car lacks a temperature gauge and its the normal/green coolant so won't risk it.

One thing I have decided is to move from a time-based schedule(courtesy SCs/FNGs) to a kms based schedule. The car runs slightly more than 5000kms/yr. Main concern is the degradation of engine oil but since I am using a fully synthetic 0w20 as per the manual, I am assuming the degradation by time shouldn't be as much as mineral oils.
Do you see any issues with this approach ?

Also about the foam vs paper filter debate I just want to add what my Suzuki Access125's maintenance manual states :
Air filters to be cleaned every 3000kms and in case of paper type they're to be replaced every 12000kms while foam types no replacement is mentioned.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

That is precisely the myth that I wanted to shatter through the contents of my original post. I believe that the 1st generation petrol Creta is the cheapest car to service in India which is larger than 4 metres and has a 5 star NCAP crash rating.

Cheap to maintain Hyundai? You got to be kidding me. With over half a century of experience, this is something you should have known. Please make such claims after living with the car for 4-5 years and minimum of 80k kms. Too early to claim the same. 5 star ncap crash testing? Please get your facts right. Creta has never got 5-star safety rating.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Clearly, my original post is not intended for such people because if their time is so valuable then they wouldn't be wasting their time reading such posts. Also, if they drive more then it would not be financially sensible to invest in a petrol car in India, would it ?

Well unfortunately, Team BHP ain't a click bait site for people to waste their time on. It's a respectable forum with good presentation and knowledge being shared. And there is no compulsion for heavy users to use diesels. A lot of bank employees stick to petrols. Delhi NCR folks have no option either.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Sadly, I cannot agree with you here. Even though I have not visited the southern parts of India, I have had numerous interactions with my fellow Creta owners from across India including both the southern and western regions across numerous Facebook Creta groups including one that I administer. I can say with confidence that it is possible to find cheap and good garages across the length and breadth of India.

Well I have to tell you that this country has non-Creta owners too. I have been closely associated with this industry. So I would rather ask you to check before making such tall claims just on the basis of FB group posts. Leave aside quality but simple real estate prices don't allow such cheap jobs to be carried out at these prices at any decent place. These owners groups are nothing short of fanboys claiming how their vehicle is best in class. Going by your post on administering them, I am not surprised why this thread was started.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

It is not contradictory at all because clearly, I do not follow the owner's manual in each and every single parameter. In some cases, I follow the owner's/service manual while in others I apply my own judgement.

Applying your judgement by not replacing the filters or choosing the incorrect grade of brake oil? When the motive behind your judgement is just to save money then no one can help the case.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

I do not recall recommending all aftermarket parts in my original post above. I clearly mentioned/recommended OEM parts without the Hyundai badging. For example, both Mann+Hummel and Inzi Controls India make the original Hyundai engine oil filters for the petrol Creta as well as sell the exact same ones in aftermarket shops as well but without the Hyundai badging. Hence, I do not see any issues in using these OEM engine oil filters since I can confirm that these have the exact same quality as the ones having the Hyundai badging on them. Even the model numbers are the same.

How are aftermarket parts different from parts without hyundai badging? Even if it's an OE supplier they are aftermarket parts. Time for you move beyond filters. A car has other parts like Suspension, master-slave cylinders & steering components. Try your non hyundai branded parts on your creta and we'll talk then. None of them work with any Hyundais.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

You are absolutely correct here and I do not recommend exceeding the recommended replacement schedule by too much. However, exceeding the replacement schedule of the air filters by a little bit is absolutely fine since regular cleaning can slow down the rate of dirt accumulation. Moreover, not every place has the same amount of dirt in the air.

Thank you for the kind wishes

How do you scan the filters for fine dust? Replacement schedule is given for a reason. As I said earlier, when the motive is just to save money then no argument can help the case. This the exact reason why the Indian market doesn't get good products and we get tailored for India compromised products. The replacement schedules are given factoring in the average climatic conditions. There is no need to wait to see the FE drop and then replace the filter, this is the exact reason why a schedule is given.

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The thing about oil is that it is possible to objectively guage the condition of the oil using laboratory testing. Most manfacturers are extremely conservative ... So go for a laboratory test report if available in your neck of the woods. Oil analysis is like a blood test. It will tell you everything right and wrong with the engine.

Thank you very much for your kind suggestion. You are absolutely correct about the oil analysis. However, as some of my fellow Bhpians here have pointed out, it is very expensive in my neck of the woods. Moreover, I bought my Creta brand-new intending to use it (couldn't find a pre-owned petrol AT) for quite a few years. I know how my son drives and maintains the car. I know the type of roads that our car is driven on. The engine still purrs like new even after almost 40000 kilometres. The car has minimal NVH (noise, vibrations and harshness) just like when it was new. So overall, we can make an educated guess as to the condition of the engine without going for an expensive oil analysis right now. But who knows, maybe someday in future we might have to go for the oil analysis as you suggested.

I am very sorry to hear about your Lexus

Originally Posted by IamNikhil

It's always good to go strictly by manufacturer recommendations about replacement, top-ups, clean-ups. A few thousand rupees saved by skimping on these in the process can prove to be terribly dangerous in the long run. Some practices that have been mentioned in the original post point to a "penny wise pound foolish" approach. Wouldn't advocate following such tactics at all if you want your car to be in pristine condition for the long term.

I can understand and respect your sentiments but I would have to respectfully disagree. That is because the intention here is to perform cheap maintenance without compromising on the quality of service by too large of a margin by preventing wastage. Let us take the brake fluid as an example. I can measure its condition (read water content) accurately and will replace it as soon as the moisture content reaches 3%. That can happen in 4 years, 5 years or even later based on the climate and other factors. However, replacing the brake fluid before time would be simply wasteful unless it has changed colour (read got dirty) as well.

I hope that I was able to explain my stance

Originally Posted by hserus

At the dealers discretion and that. This is an exception not a rule and you would just have to convince the dealer, ++ the warranty claim would probably have to occur in a part or system that you have not DIY maintained.

I had the same confusion as you and was able to verify from multiple ASCs here in Kolkata that we are indeed able to skip two scheduled services. This is apparently a rule from Hyundai and not an exception at the dealers' discretion. However, as you correctly mentioned, all warranty is at the dealers' discretion. But I am happy to state that the Hyundai dealers have been very supportive here despite the numerous modifications that I have done in my car (for car-camping) primarily because all work has been done by us as per their standards and after extensive consultations with them. My preferred ASC is one of the best in Eastern India from what I have experienced over the years. In fact, they encourage DIY and aftermarket repairs if done correctly (a rare exception). They regularly post videos on Youtube as well on how to repair and fix various issues in Hyundai cars

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

I noticed some disparaging comments, but ignore them. Many of the members are used to just giving their cars for servicing and are not half as knowledgeable as you in taking care of their rides.

Thank you very much for the kind words. However, I would slightly disagree with you here about the "disparaging comments". I believe that the ones who made such comments had the best interests of my car in their hearts even though they might not have agreed with my methods. As the saying goes, it is the thought that counts

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

I am fairly confident that your car must be much better maintained than many of our members ...

My car is definitely well maintained but I am not sure as to whether it is better maintained than many of our fellow Bhpians. This is because most Bhpians are fairly knowledgeable and maintain their vehicles very well

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

I wonder how you can be so confident in the result of a visual dipstick testing to determine engine oil condition. I don't think without a proper UOA (used oil analysis) or at least, a subjective blotting paper test, it's impossible to comment on that especially, for a petrol engine where soot formation is lesser than diesel ones, and the not-so-drastic change of engine oil colour may be quite deceptive sometimes.

You are absolutely correct about the UOA. As I mentioned earlier, I do not have a scientific way of determining the condition of the engine oil. And a proper UOA is cost-prohibitive (for me at least) as of now. However, from what I have experienced over the course of a few decades, the condition of the engine oil can be gauged approximately (read almost accurately) if we know about the conditions in which the car was used. I bought my Creta brand-new (couldn't find a pre-owned petrol AT) intending to use it for quite a few years. I know how my son drives and maintains the car. I know the type of roads that our car is driven on. The engine still purrs like new even after almost 40000 kilometres. The car has minimal NVH (noise, vibrations and harshness) just like when it was new. Moreover, I religiously stick to the recommended schedule for replacing the engine oil and engine oil filter. Also, with ethanol increasing in percentages in petrol, I am not taking any chances since the engine oil will invariably turn corrosive quite fast compared to petrol without ethanol. So overall, we can make an educated guess as to the condition of the engine without going for an expensive oil analysis right now. But who knows, maybe someday in the future, we might have to go for the oil analysis as you suggested.

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

DOT 3 brake fluid in 2021 instead of DOT 4 really!? ... DOT 4 inherently attracts lesser moisture content and lasts longer. So, isn't it counter-productive to use DOT 3 fluid followed by so much objective testing for moisture content determination to save a few bucks? I believe the cumulative extra cost of DOT 4 fluid as on date must be less than the device you purchased for moisture content testing!

You are correct again but maybe I was not able to convey my reasoning for sticking with DOT 3 brake fluid. Hyundai does indeed recommend both DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluid for my 1st generation Creta. However, my 2017 Creta originally came with DOT 3 fluid only (which I am still using till now) and not the DOT 4 one. Now, I am sure that you know that it would not be a good idea to mix DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids. Hence, I am sticking with the DOT 3 fluid as of now till it goes bad. When the current DOT 3 brake fluid loses its utility, I intend to flush the brake system and then fill it up with DOT 4 fluid (followed by bleeding) which costs almost the same as the DOT 3 fluid as you correctly mentioned.

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

Did you check the TDS of the distilled water you use to top-up your battery with? I came across water bottles being sold as ‘distilled’ tag in market with the price you mentioned basically containing RO water you get through the water purifier in your home or your Creta (TDS ranging from 35 to 80), which is quite detrimental for the battery health. Perfect distilled-water should have exact 0 TDS value.

As a matter of fact, I do indeed check the TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) level of the distilled water before using it. Ideal distilled water (having TDS value of 0) can be found at medical stores but it is very expensive. However, for battery-related use in cars, I find that an RO filter with a UF filter (with proper TDS reduction mechanism) and a properly rated flow restrictor works very well for the water at my location. I can easily get (almost distilled) water for almost free with TDS readings around 1-4 ppm (parts per million). Touchwood, the original Exide battery in my car is still going strong at almost 4 years even after all the extra loads (cooking, recharging, inverter, fridge, etc) that I put on it. You can check out how I modified my home water purifier for dual-use both at home and in my car in the following link :-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...-use-cars.html (DIY: Water purification system for use in cars)

I found my TDS meter (image below) to very helpful while performing the above DIY :-

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

You can do wheel alignment at home using the age-old parallel- thread method too! This can save you a few bucks unless you care too much for stringent accuracy of the toe in-out values of the front wheels. Even most of the wheel alignment and balancing shops don’t have dynamic balancers; so you only get single plane balancing there.

You are technically correct but there may be an issue if I do the wheel alignment at home. My car has an electronic power steering system like most cars today. The power steering control module functions with the help of inputs from the steering angle sensor or SAS which is also known as a clock-spring sensor located inside the steering wheel below the airbag module. Performing wheel alignment can sometimes cause the SAS to require recalibration before the car can be driven. And recalibrating the SAS requires an expensive OBD2 device which I do not have. Those usually cost approximately upwards of INR 40k. I merely have a cheap OBD2 device (approx. INR 450) to show the fuel efficiency figures on a smartphone or perform very few basic diagnostic tests. Hence, it is better to get wheel alignment and balancing done from good aftermarket shops that have a proper full-fledged OBD2 device. I would have had no issues in performing the wheel alignment at home if my car didn't have an electronic power steering system

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

Now, the final enquiry: I presume you use jack stands and hydraulic jacks or two/four post lift for some of the DIY works on your car. If yes, please share the details.

Sadly, I do not have a two or four post lift. We never even had an option of installing one since my late husband had a transferable job and government quarters do not allow such installations. Now, I live in an apartment but I cannot even dream of getting permission from the RWA (Residents' Welfare Association) for installing such a lift. However, I do have a pair of jack stands somewhere lying around in my home. Both of them are rated at 2 tonnes each since my car weighs substantially less than 2 tonnes. I also have a hydraulic trolley jack rated at 2 tonnes. I absolutely hate those hydraulic bottle jacks and hence never bought them. Thankfully, I have never had to use either the jack stands or the trolley jack for my Creta since it has adequate ground clearance for my son to crawl under it. For reference, my son is almost 6 feet tall and weighs almost a 100 kilograms

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by shancz

Main concern is the degradation of engine oil but since I am using a fully synthetic 0w20 as per the manual, I am assuming the degradation by time shouldn't be as much as mineral oils.
Do you see any issues with this approach ?

Your assumption is absolutely accurate as synthetic engine oils usually last for a longer time compared to mineral oils. However, there may be a problem if you go as long as 2 years without replacing the engine oil. The issue is that petrol contains ethanol which releases corrosive (towards metals like aluminium used to make engines) substances that get mixed with the engine oil inside the engine. And this problem is only going to increase in the coming years with the government targetting 100% ethanol as fuel instead of petrol in India

So unless you are using a long-life synthetic engine oil specifically designed for ethanol blends in petrol, it is better to replace the engine oil and the engine oil filter every year without waiting for the distance limit. Moreover, such synthetic engine oils for ethanol blends are slightly more expensive than regular synthetic oils. But then if you replace the engine oil every year you would not be able to reap most of the benefits of synthetic engine oils in the first place and hence it is better to use semi-synthetic or mineral-based engine oils of the recommended grade.

I hope that I was able to explain the issue satisfactorily

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

I hope that I was able to explain the issue satisfactorily

Yes absolutely clear and I got the point. I had no idea about how ethanol would come into the picture.
So annual service it is and would use the recommended parts/oils which are cheaper than market as well.

Thanks a lot

[hserus]

Ma’am- while you’re taking precautions, what Asit Kulkarni said is correct. The change intervals are calculated using extensive tests in full fledged labs, not dipping a tester into fluid and getting approximate readings. A safety margin is then built in.

Please follow those intervals rigidly. You can save labour cost by doing it yourself and also save material cost by buying any other brand of lube or filter that suits your pocket and meets the defined standards.

Trying to delay it based on basic tests just won’t work without compromising the life of critical engine components.

[Blooming Flower]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

I can easily get (almost distilled) water for almost free with TDS readings around 1-4 ppm (parts per million).

It is great to know that you are able to get 1-4 ppm purified water from the RO+UF system in your home as well as the Creta. While this is quite good for the car batteries I suspect it to be equally detrimental for your health (assuming you are drinking such low TDS water sans any essential minerals.)

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Performing wheel alignment can sometimes cause the SAS to require recalibration before the car can be driven. And recalibrating the SAS requires an expensive OBD2 device which I do not have.

If I comprehend correctly, every time you get a wheel alignment done the SAS re-calibration is/ may be required.

Due to my job requirements, I myself have done the wheel alignment many times along with the operators on umpteen number of cars with EPS using a Hunter-make sophisticated alignment machine which only a handful of wheel alignment shops own in India. However, the basic principle remains invariable whichever be the system. I knew merely by turning the inner tie rod clockwise and counterclockwise one can adjust the toe in-out settings of a wheel. And before we do this, it's absolutely recommended to fix/lock the steering wheel using a jig in a position so that the front wheels are just straight. Most of the time, for any FWD car, wheel alignment is restricted to toe adjustment only while caster, cambers etc. cannot be tweaked usually. In this whole process, I find very little scope for SAS calibration to get tampered with.

After all, I am yet to spot any stand-alone wheel-alignment centre (in all parts of India I travelled so far) having a sophisticated OBD scanner not only to diagnose problems but also to re-calibrate essential sensors! That too within Rs. 300- 400 as you mentioned in point no. 15 in your opening post!

I am really curious how they get access to such a confidential dataset of calibration values from a car manufacturer!

BTW, how often do you get an alignment and balancing job done on your Creta? Is it fixed with a certain interval or do you decide by some subjective judgments?

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Sadly, I do not have a two or four-post lift. Thankfully, I have never had to use either the jack stands or the trolley jack for my Creta since it has adequate ground clearance for my son to crawl under it. For reference, my son is almost 6 feet tall and weighs almost a 100 kilograms

Indeed, a great feat is achieved by your son. But I am really clueless about how you were able to grease the guide pin of the brake callipers or change a brake pad without using the jack!

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Cheap to maintain Hyundai? You got to be kidding me. Please make such claims after living with the car for 4-5 years and minimum of 80k kms. Too early to claim the same. 5 star ncap crash testing? Please get your facts right. Creta has never got 5-star safety rating.

Maybe it is too early to claim but I clearly mentioned that the original post was based on the basis of using the car for almost 40k kms. And yes, from what I have seen, heard and experienced, Hyundais are usually cheap to maintain just like Marutis or almost any other car for that matter (except the luxury/sports ones) if we know what to look for and do not fall into the traps of the service advisors.

And touchwood, I have never had to make up facts. Here is some evidence of the first generation Creta receiving a 5 star NCAP crash test rating :-

1) https://www.carwale.com/news/hyundai...in-crash-test/

2) https://www.zigwheels.com/news-featu...-c-ncap/20707/

3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AUHW8L0G_w

And before you say that the build quality is different, I would say that there is no evidence to prove your claim for the first-generation Creta. I have searched a lot including in the service manuals, body-in-white diagrams, etc but could not find a difference in build quality across countries for the first generation Creta. You may also say that the 1st generation Creta scored 4 stars in the Latin NCAP test but I would say that they didn't test for side impacts which the C-NCAP (evidence above) did. Similar build quality can also be proven by the very similar scores in each of the respective tested parameters between the Latin NCAP and the C-NCAP tests for the 1st generation Creta also known as ix25 and Cantus in other countries.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Well unfortunately, Team BHP ain't a click bait site for people to waste their time on. It's a respectable forum with good presentation and knowledge being shared. And there is no compulsion for heavy users to use diesels. A lot of bank employees stick to petrols. Delhi NCR folks have no option either.

My statement was about people too busy whose time is very precious, who can earn way more by their choice of work instead of spending the same time on T-Bhp (or any other forum for that matter) learning how to save money on car maintenance. My statement was not specifically about T-Bhp and of course, it is a respectable forum. Else we would not be here, would we ?

I did not say that it was a compulsion to use diesels since personal choice and/or legal burdens take precedence over financial benefits.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Well I have to tell you that this country has non-Creta owners too. I have been closely associated with this industry. So I would rather ask you to check before making such tall claims just on the basis of FB group posts. Leave aside quality but simple real estate prices don't allow such cheap jobs to be carried out at these prices at any decent place. These owners groups are nothing short of fanboys claiming how their vehicle is best in class. Going by your post on administering them, I am not surprised why this thread was started.

Well, the original post/thread is specifically about a Creta. I would have to respectfully disagree with you and can say with confidence having interacted with numerous car owners (Creta and other cars) that cheap and good garages do exist across the country. And most of them can definitely work on most mainstream cars (apart from luxury, sports
and EVs). I can also guarantee that not all owners' groups are the same and we have fans, haters and fence-sitters in approximately equal measure.

However, I would request you to kindly refrain from hurling personal insinuations

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

How are aftermarket parts different from parts without hyundai badging? Even if it's an OE supplier they are aftermarket parts. Time for you move beyond filters. A car has other parts like Suspension, master-slave cylinders & steering components. Try your non hyundai branded parts on your creta and we'll talk then. None of them work with any Hyundais.

I was being specific as to the particular type of the aftermarket part of the particular category. Not all aftermarket parts have the same quality as the original Hyundai ones. But if the part number and manufacturer is the same as the ones used by Hyundai then that aftermarket part has the same quality as the Hyundai one. Parts without the Hyundai badging are a particular subset of the larger set of aftermarket parts. Just because something is an aftermarket part does not mean that it has to be different from the original Hyundai one.

Since you mentioned "suspension, master-slave cylinders, steering components", these are not something that need regular servicing unless someone is an abusive driver or drives regularly on very bad roads. For most car owners who keep their cars for a long time, such parts need replacement only once or twice during the lifetime of the car. And these are not some special cars that can only be fitted with Hyundai original parts. As long as the original specifications and quality are maintained/exceeded, any aftermarket part can be used. And many of my neighbours do use aftermarket parts in their Hyundais. One of them has even got a Bilstein suspension on his i20.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

... The replacement schedules are given factoring in the average climatic conditions ...

You have reiterated my thoughts exactly. Not only are the replacement schedules given factoring in the average climatic conditions, but they are also given factoring in an annual cleaning and average city traffic condition as well. Hence, it is obvious that I can extend the replacement schedule by a little bit with a monthly cleaning of the air filters since my car is mostly used on highways and the filters do not get as dirty as those of a similar car used primarily in the city

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

And before you say that the build quality is different, I would say that there is no evidence to prove your claim for the first-generation Creta. I have searched a lot including in the service manuals, body-in-white diagrams, etc but could not find a difference in build quality across countries for the first generation Creta.

OT : I would like to invite your attention to this thread too.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...if-so-how.html (Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?)

It's a well known fact that most Indian manufacturers cut corners on safety when they make Indian versions. None of them are saints. Hyundai India are the masters at this game. Without any document or research, I can safely say Hyundai do water down their Indian versions. The first gen Creta may be an exception.

The latest fiasco is Creta's sibling Seltos scoring a poor 2.xx rating in the GNCAP. It's anybody's guess the rating the new Creta would end up with.

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by hserus

... while you’re taking precautions, what Asit Kulkarni said is correct. The change intervals are calculated using extensive tests in full fledged labs, not dipping a tester into fluid and getting approximate readings. A safety margin is then built in ... Please follow those intervals rigidly ... Trying to delay it based on basic tests just won’t work without compromising the life of critical engine components.

Not only are the replacement schedules given factoring in the average climatic conditions, but they are also given factoring in an annual cleaning and average city traffic condition as well. Hence, it is obvious that I can extend the replacement schedule of 20k kms for the air filters (in hazardous conditions) by a little bit with a monthly cleaning of the air filters since my car is mostly used on highways and the filters do not get as dirty as those of a similar car used primarily in the city. This is especially because Hyundai themselves recommend a 30k kms replacement interval for both the engine air filter and AC air filter for normal use in my petrol 1.6 Creta (proof below).

Speaking of the brake fluid, Hyundai too does not specify a replacement schedule and recommends to inspect, top-up and replace if, as and when necessary exactly as I recommended in the original post/thread. Even the coolant is supposed to last for a decade (proof below).

Here is a snapshot of a portion of the normal service schedule for the 1st generation petrol 1.6 Creta :-

Hence, I believe that my recommendations are well within the ambit of the recommended service intervals. Essentially, I have recommended what you and our fellow Bhpian asit.kulkarni93 have suggested about the replacement of air filters and the fluids. I am guessing that the confusion arose due to the fact that I did not share the recommended normal service schedule of my car earlier and I sincerely apologize for that.

I hope that I was able to explain myself properly

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

It is great to know that you are able to get 1-4 ppm purified water from the RO+UF system in your home as well as the Creta. While this is quite good for the car batteries I suspect it to be equally detrimental for your health (assuming you are drinking such low TDS water sans any essential minerals.)

Oh no, I would never drink such low-TDS water. I usually consume water with TDS levels approximately around the 200 ppm mark. What I use for making potable water is a RO+UV+UF setup with a TDS adjuster along with other components like mineralizer, etc. If you look at my setup (link shared earlier), you will find that it is made of various individual filters serving individual purposes. So when I need the (near) distilled water for the battery, diluting concentrated coolant, etc from my larger home setup (also used in my car), I do two things. Firstly, I simply shut-off/bypass the mineralizer cartridge (disconnecting the cartridge works too) to prevent the addition of minerals to the purified water. Secondly, I shut-off the TDS adjuster valve. This way all the water has to pass through the RO filter instead of bypassing it to compensate for the loss of TDS in case of potable water. This is how I achieve the nearly distilled water for the battery and other uses

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

If I comprehend correctly, every time you get a wheel alignment done the SAS re-calibration is/ may be required ... I knew merely by turning the inner tie rod clockwise and counterclockwise one can adjust the toe in-out settings of a wheel. And before we do this, it's absolutely recommended to fix/lock the steering wheel using a jig in a position so that the front wheels are just straight. In this whole process, I find very little scope for SAS calibration to get tampered with.

We do not need a steering angle sensor (SAS) calibration every time wheel alignment is done, only sometimes. What you have mentioned is indeed the recommended procedure to adjust the wheel alignment. However, from what I was able to understand from the conversations with one of the professors of Hyundai's automotive college here in Kolkata, apparently the electronic power steering (EPS) control module in conjunction with the electronic control unit (ECU) is constantly learning and/or compensating for the slowly changing wheel alignment over a course of time. However, when a drastic change is done to the wheel alignment either at an alignment shop (for correction of misalignment) or due to an unfortunate accident/harsh-bump, the software alarm pops up and the steering starts either vibrating (due to the EPS motor trying to correct itself) or the steering wheel starts turning to any one side. I cannot say for sure but I am guessing that there should be at least one more sensor somewhere near the area where the steering column comes in contact with the wheels through its own gearbox (different from the transmission of the car itself). Apparently, this issue is not restricted to Hyundai alone. Sadly, this occurs in most cars equipped with EPS today irrespective of the brand and SAS recalibration is the only known way to fix it.

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

After all, I am yet to spot any stand-alone wheel-alignment centre (in all parts of India I travelled so far) having a sophisticated OBD scanner not only to diagnose problems but also to re-calibrate essential sensors! That too within Rs. 300- 400 as you mentioned in point no. 15 in your opening post!

Standalone wheel-alignment centres usually do not have OBD tools but garages equipped for wheel alignment usually do. For example, the garage near my home does and charges INR 300 for wheel alignment and INR 100 for specifically recalibrating the SAS. This recalibration is very easy and hardly takes 2 minutes. Apparently, they have to do it quite frequently for all sorts of newer cars.

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

I am really curious how they get access to such a confidential dataset of calibration values from a car manufacturer!

Oh no, such information is not very confidential at all and is easily available in the service manuals of most cars irrespective of the brand. For example, Hyundai themselves sell the service manuals, body-in-white diagrams, etc of their cars online. I got the recommended calibration details (toe, camber, caster, king-pin, etc) of my Creta from a Hyundai ASC here in Kolkata.

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

BTW, how often do you get an alignment and balancing job done on your Creta? Is it fixed with a certain interval or do you decide by some subjective judgments?

We have not had to get wheel balancing done even once. I believe that the primary reason for this is the stock alloys. However, we have had to get wheel alignment done thrice on our car during the course of almost 40k kms and all of them were done at the same aftermarket garage near our home.

I am sure that you already know that a wheel imbalance or misalignment will invariably manifest itself on the treads of the tyres. The recommended wheel alignment interval is 10k kms but we usually decide on its requirement based on our regular monitoring of the tyre tread depths which is done with the help of a cheap analog tread depth gauge that is accurate up to two places of decimal in millimetres.

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

... But I am really clueless about how you were able to grease the guide pin of the brake callipers or change a brake pad without using the jack!

LOL, forget greasing, I do not think that it is even possible to access the brake caliper guide rods/pins without a jack/lift since the wheel needs to be removed to access the area properly. I clearly mentioned that I did not use a trolley jack for my car. However, that does not mean that I did not use a jack for my car. We do indeed use the regular stock jack (provided by Hyundai) from time to time for our car.

I hope that was able to clarify the different aspects

[Blooming Flower]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

We do not need a steering angle sensor (SAS) calibration every time wheel alignment is done, only sometimes.... I cannot say for sure but I am guessing that there should be at least one more sensor somewhere near the area where the steering column comes in contact with the wheels through its own gearbox (different from the transmission of the car itself). Apparently, this issue is not restricted to Hyundai alone. Sadly, this occurs in most cars equipped with EPS today irrespective of the brand and SAS recalibration is the only known way to fix it.

Standalone wheel-alignment centres usually do not have OBD tools but garages equipped for wheel alignment usually do. For example, the garage near my home does and charges INR 300 for wheel alignment and INR 100 for specifically recalibrating the SAS. This recalibration is very easy and hardly takes 2 minutes. Apparently, they have to do it quite frequently for all sorts of newer cars.

Well, what you are mentioning repeatedly as 'recalibration' is basically a 'reset' of the SAS. There exists pretty much a difference between these two terms in the automotive world as well as in general metrology. Scarcely, any EPS equipped car needs a SAS reset if the wheel alignment is done properly by locking the steering wheel in a straight position. If anything really goes wrong at a broader level your dashboard console will definitely throw up some error lights prompting you for a 'reset'. Let me quote one fellow bhpian who is closely associated with this wheel and tyre industry.

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

The sensor reset is required only sometimes. Not all the time. The steering wheel being perfectly straight is one way of ensuring the car is aligned well, but sometimes it isnt enough. The sensor may need to be reset too in certain cases.

As of now, there are very few OBD tools that support this particular reset. And those that support are prohibitively expensive for a car alignment centre. Over time, they should get cheaper and make more sense for an alignment centre to own.

Some Mahindra cars also require a Steering Angle Sensor Reset.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Oh no, such information is not very confidential at all and is easily available in the service manuals of most cars irrespective of the brand.

Yes, I reiterate, the calibration information is always confidential with every car maker out there. This remains esoteric between the car-maker and the specific part supplier forever with a signed NDA (non-disclosure agreement). What is offered by some advanced third party OBD tools like Autel, Hunter Codelink etc. is nothing but some model-wise 'reset' option of various sensors. The database of these OBD tools is not yet updated with all the Indian cars plying on road. And you can't change the calibration yourself for most of the digital sensors of your car. I believe no customer has ever tried to reverse-engineer these! Let me redirect to another thread for more clarification.

Originally Posted by Ravindra M

No, the automotive sensors don't need any calibration.

The digital sensors ( e.g. speed sensors ) will not drift - they are designed to work lifetime of the car e.g. 15 years. In case they fail, the ECU will recognize the absence of the signal and will report the appropriate malfunction code.

There are sophisticated software algorithms to compensate for the drift in analogue sensors and it is done automatically by ECU. If the drift is outside permissible limit, again malfunction code is reported.

So all in all, you need not worry about recalibration.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

For example, Hyundai themselves sell the service manuals, body-in-white diagrams, etc of their cars online. I got the recommended calibration details (toe, camber, caster, king-pin, etc) of my Creta from a Hyundai ASC here in Kolkata.

A service/workshop manual is obviously more detailed than an owner's manual, but it's not the Bible for the car. You can't change the camber and caster of your Creta given the chassis design and drive-train setup. I would be glad if proven wrong. And let me tell you if you witness some castor and camber values are changing on the screen while performing a wheel alignment, rest assured the operator is only adjusting the toe in-out which in turn show some changed values of the caster and camber for that particular moment. He is not at all adjusting the latter two parameters. Just perform a lock-to-lock turn of the steering wheel after the alignment and tell us if you get to see the same caster-camber values displayed on the screen before.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

I am sure that you already know that a wheel imbalance or misalignment will invariably manifest itself on the treads of the tyres. The recommended wheel alignment interval is 10k kms but we usually decide on its requirement based on our regular monitoring of the tyre tread depths which is done with the help of a cheap analog tread depth gauge that is accurate up to two places of decimal in millimetres.

TWI (tread wear indicator) is already given in any tyre and you may not need to go upto decimal level accuracy for balancing only. Even for that matter, you need to measure tread depth at multiple points of the same tyre to check whether there is non-uniform wear leading to an imbalance in the wheel-tyre assembly. This is itself a heavy overdoing at the customer level. There may be non-uniformity issues arising in all three axes viz. (RFV, LFV, TFV) which may not be linked with tread wear only, but with bearings, wheel hub, drums or rotors etc. This may be subjectively felt from the changed signature of the ride and handling of the car.

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

We do indeed use the regular stock jack (provided by Hyundai) from time to time for our car.

I only hope your son doesn't crawl under the car while it is rested on the stock jack on one side although you mentioned earlier that he doesn't need it.

And before signing off, may I know Hyundai has which automotive only college in Kolkata?

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

I was able to understand from the conversations with one of the professors of Hyundai's automotive college here in Kolkata..

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

OT : I would like to invite your attention to this thread too.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...if-so-how.html (Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?)
It's a well known fact that most Indian manufacturers cut corners on safety when they make Indian versions. None of them are saints. Hyundai India are the masters at this game. Without any document or research, I can safely say Hyundai do water down their Indian versions. The first gen Creta may be an exception.
The latest fiasco is Creta's sibling Seltos scoring a poor 2.xx rating in the GNCAP. It's anybody's guess the rating the new Creta would end up with.

Even though you claim, without documents or research, that Hyundai waters down its Indian versions of its global products, I completely agree because I have the documentation and research to support your claim. Let us take the 2nd generation Creta as an example. The Indian one (Su2i) is clearly flimsier than the global Su2. The situation is very similar with the Seltos as well. The Indian one (Sp2i) is made with poorer materials and lacks reinforcement when compared with the global Sp2 ones.

However, this wasn't always the case. If I remember correctly, the earlier CEO had issued a statement that Hyundai would never provide poorer built products in India or something along those lines. He was almost instantly shown the door and that is when the downfall started. Sadly, I do not recall whether this happened in 2016, 2017 or 2018 but it definitely happened in one of those years

The first-generation Creta was not an exception. Similar build quality used to be the norm till the aforementioned fiasco with their CEO happened

Also, if I remember correctly, didn't the Indian Seltos score 3 stars (barely) in the crash tests ?