Power Steering Problem After Changing Santro Belts

nura · 26th January 2008, 11:39

I finally went back to Saini Hyundai (Hyundai Dealer's Workshop) to get the clutch overhauled & asked them to check the power steering pump thoroughly.
They have replaced the clutch plate, pressure plate, clutch release bearing & clutch cable & the clutch operation is perfect. Unfortunately the grinding noise. vibration & intermittent engine RPM increase still persist.
They removed the old power steering pump but could not find any fault in it. They installed a new power steering pump but it did not solve the problem. So they have refitted the old pump.
It has probably become a little bit of a mental thing with me but I do want to get rid of this problem. Where do I go from here? I asked if it could be a defective power steering pressure switch but was told this would have certainly resulted in a leakage.
Any suggestions will be sincerely appreciated.

Lukeskywalker · 26th January 2008, 20:53

Hi Nura, I think even my Santro which has done about 45k kms needs the change of belts and clutch overhauled. Could you pls provide me the costs of replacement of these parts at the A.S.S?
Thanks,
Cheers
_Hari

nura · 27th January 2008, 19:08

Some good news that I'd like to share. The noise, vibration & engine RPM problems disappeared after the power steering pump pulley was changed!
@Lukeskywalker - Belt-replacement including labour cost me Rs 900. Clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing & cable replacement with labour cost Rs 3800. The jobs were done at Saini Hyundai, a dealer's workshop.

Lukeskywalker · 27th January 2008, 20:00

Quote:

@Lukeskywalker - Belt-replacement including labour cost me Rs 900. Clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing & cable replacement with labour cost Rs 3800. The jobs were done at Saini Hyundai, a dealer's workshop.
__________________

Thanks Nura, I was asked for around 8k for clutch replacement, hence my query. I'll check again with the Hyundai centre. Just discovered the santro clutch pedal has absolutely no resistance to offer when engaging it, also could not slot gears smoothly, there was a free service checkup by Gulf oil ppl at my apartment complex and on getting the car inspected, was told the clutch cable is cut, so needs to be replaced.

nura · 27th January 2008, 21:10

A clutch cable replacement should cost you about Rs 600.

nura · 17th January 2010, 22:55

The power steering pump noise & RPM fluctuations on turning the steering wheel came back a long time ago & I have been somehow living with the problems. There is still no power steering fluid leakage visible anywhere & the level in the reservoir is steady.
I came across an article on the net suggesting that a small but powerful magnet, tied to a length of wire, could be lowered into the power steering fluid reservoir & drawn up every few days to remove any metal particles that were found stuck to it.
Now, where do I get hold of this small but powerful magnet?
Here is a link to the article.
Steering:

nura · 13th February 2010, 14:41

Hi!
After living with the problem for over 2 years, I finally got the power steering pump replaced at the Bengal Hyundai workshop. It cost me 13K but the problem remains the same. I will describe the problem again in brief.
If I press the accelerator just a wee bit, there is a faint grinding noise. The noise disappears when I press the accelerator further but when I take my foot off the accelerator & the engine RPM decreases, the noise reappears briefly.
Also, there is a little groaning noise when I turn the steering wheel in either direction. I had earlier thought that this was an engine RPM increase but I now feel that this noise is not really accompanied by an RPM increase.
I had taken the car back to the workshop but the technician said that the power steering pump problem was over & that this was a compressor pulley noise. I told him that I wanted to get that replaced as well & get rid of the noise but he was reluctant to go ahead with the job.
Now I plan to get the car checked out at another workshop. I guess I will have to ask them to remove the belts one by one & note when exactly the noise disappears. I strongly suspect that the noise will disappear after the power steering pump belt is taken off. What do I do then? Do I suggest they replace the crankshaft pulley?
Any suggestions will be very sincerely appreciated.

nura · 3rd March 2010, 15:00

Hi!
I went back to the same workshop, where the power steering pump had been replaced & spoke to some senior people. They confirmed that the power steering pump noise was still there & again replaced the pump.
I sat in the car for 15-20 minutes with the engine on (& AC, of course, whew, it has suddenly turned hot here) & turned the steering wheel in each direction dozens of times. No groaning noise whatsover. Pressed & released the accelerator many a times. No grinding noise at all. I thought to myself, 13K well-spent after all. Do read on.
Drove the Santro home for a quick bite & then to the Ford dealer to pick up my Fiesta smart card. Slowly but steadily, all the noises started coming back. By late evening, it was as bad as with the old pump.
So, what gives?
Could it be metallic grit in the power steering fluid? They had changed the fluid during the 1st pump-change but refused to do a flush, saying it can't be done. Had read an article on the net sometime ago about a power steering flush using a turkey baster. Hope to find the article again but not sure if I can find the turkey baster.
Can I perhaps buy another litre or so of the power steering fluid, open the reservoir cap, detach the return hose from the reservoir, put an empty container (with a sieve on top of it) under the return hose, start the engine & turn the steering wheel from one side to the other. As soon as fluid starts coming out of the return hose, I would start pouring fresh fluid into the reservoir & check the sieve for grit after a while.
Is this likely to work or am I going to likely end up saying bye bye to another pump? I am really regretting I didn't try the magnet in the reservoir experiment before changing the pump?
Thanks in advance for your replies.

Otto · 3rd March 2010, 23:54

Try bleeding your power steering line. it could be air that is causing the problem. Air that is trapped and can't be released.
Running the hydraulic pump dry albeit for a few mins is risky.
Go ahead with your procedure, but I think you can bleed the line from it's lowest point, without cranking your engine at all.
The wheel would be hard to turn, but you'll get all your fluid out.

nura · 4th March 2010, 22:30

@Otto
Thanks for your reply.
Drove the car approx 70 km today. With the previous pumps, there used to be a groaning noise when I used to turn the steering wheel. This noise does not seem to be occurring with this pump. Maybe it will occur later. But the grinding noise on pressing the accelerator has definitely come back.
Will try to get a technician to bleed the system tomorrow evening & post the results here for more help.
Thanks once again.

dr.faramroze · 8th March 2010, 11:19

The same happened in my Xeta, I found out the problem myself. A worn out axle-drive shaft or bearing because that will give play in the power steering which will lead to rpm fluctuations. Try turning the front wheels to their extremes, if it happens, you can get the shaft cone checked.

nura · 20th May 2010, 09:54

It seems the problem is finally solved.
In the old Santros (like mine), the crankshaft pulley turns the water-pump pulley & the water-pump pulley turns the power-steering pump pulley via another belt. In the newer Santros, the power-steering pump pulley is turned by the crankshaft pulley itself.
An ingenious technician at Saini Hyundai decided to replace my old system with the new one. He removed the new power-steering pump & refitted the old one. A pulley & belt had to be replaced & another pulley & belt had to be removed & discarded.
I am now poorer by another few hundred rupees, have an almost new power-steering pump in my kit bag & Team-bhp is heavier by another post.
As for the grinding noise, it has completely disappeared.

Hope this thread helps someone in a similar situation.

jinojohnt · 20th May 2010, 14:33

Please also check my post on dealer malpractices, and decide for yourself whether you have been cheated by the dealer. All (adjustable) belts are supposed to be tightened with specific torques, and are not supposed to be overtightened.

Top things to watch out when you give your car for service
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1774911

dadu · 20th May 2010, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Please also check my post on dealer malpractices, and decide for yourself whether you have been cheated by the dealer. All (adjustable) belts are supposed to be tightened with specific torques, and are not supposed to be overtightened.

Top things to watch out when you give your car for service
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1774911

Torque, I am yet to see anyone at HASS to measure torque while tightening pulleys, the best they do is to press the belt between the pulley's to check the slackness and as a measure of tightness.

jinojohnt · 20th May 2010, 16:15

Sad thing is that majority of the technicians tighten using normal spanner/wrench, and check the tightness by pressing with the thumb. This method employs 'gut-feel' way of tightening, and it's very easy to fool the customer saying "Sir, I have tightened with the correct force."

26th January 2008, 11:39	#16
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	I finally went back to Saini Hyundai (Hyundai Dealer's Workshop) to get the clutch overhauled & asked them to check the power steering pump thoroughly. They have replaced the clutch plate, pressure plate, clutch release bearing & clutch cable & the clutch operation is perfect. Unfortunately the grinding noise. vibration & intermittent engine RPM increase still persist. They removed the old power steering pump but could not find any fault in it. They installed a new power steering pump but it did not solve the problem. So they have refitted the old pump. It has probably become a little bit of a mental thing with me but I do want to get rid of this problem. Where do I go from here? I asked if it could be a defective power steering pressure switch but was told this would have certainly resulted in a leakage. Any suggestions will be sincerely appreciated. Last edited by nura : 26th January 2008 at 11:41.
	() Thanks

26th January 2008, 20:53	#17
Lukeskywalker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,397 Thanked: 1,243 Times View My Garage	Hi Nura, I think even my Santro which has done about 45k kms needs the change of belts and clutch overhauled. Could you pls provide me the costs of replacement of these parts at the A.S.S? Thanks, Cheers _Hari
	() Thanks

27th January 2008, 19:08	#18
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	Some good news that I'd like to share. The noise, vibration & engine RPM problems disappeared after the power steering pump pulley was changed! @Lukeskywalker - Belt-replacement including labour cost me Rs 900. Clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing & cable replacement with labour cost Rs 3800. The jobs were done at Saini Hyundai, a dealer's workshop.
	() Thanks

27th January 2008, 21:10	#20
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	A clutch cable replacement should cost you about Rs 600.
	() Thanks

17th January 2010, 22:55	#21
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	The power steering pump noise & RPM fluctuations on turning the steering wheel came back a long time ago & I have been somehow living with the problems. There is still no power steering fluid leakage visible anywhere & the level in the reservoir is steady. I came across an article on the net suggesting that a small but powerful magnet, tied to a length of wire, could be lowered into the power steering fluid reservoir & drawn up every few days to remove any metal particles that were found stuck to it. Now, where do I get hold of this small but powerful magnet? Here is a link to the article. Steering:
	() Thanks

13th February 2010, 14:41	#22
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	Hi! After living with the problem for over 2 years, I finally got the power steering pump replaced at the Bengal Hyundai workshop. It cost me 13K but the problem remains the same. I will describe the problem again in brief. If I press the accelerator just a wee bit, there is a faint grinding noise. The noise disappears when I press the accelerator further but when I take my foot off the accelerator & the engine RPM decreases, the noise reappears briefly. Also, there is a little groaning noise when I turn the steering wheel in either direction. I had earlier thought that this was an engine RPM increase but I now feel that this noise is not really accompanied by an RPM increase. I had taken the car back to the workshop but the technician said that the power steering pump problem was over & that this was a compressor pulley noise. I told him that I wanted to get that replaced as well & get rid of the noise but he was reluctant to go ahead with the job. Now I plan to get the car checked out at another workshop. I guess I will have to ask them to remove the belts one by one & note when exactly the noise disappears. I strongly suspect that the noise will disappear after the power steering pump belt is taken off. What do I do then? Do I suggest they replace the crankshaft pulley? Any suggestions will be very sincerely appreciated.
	() Thanks

3rd March 2010, 15:00	#23
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	Hi! I went back to the same workshop, where the power steering pump had been replaced & spoke to some senior people. They confirmed that the power steering pump noise was still there & again replaced the pump. I sat in the car for 15-20 minutes with the engine on (& AC, of course, whew, it has suddenly turned hot here) & turned the steering wheel in each direction dozens of times. No groaning noise whatsover. Pressed & released the accelerator many a times. No grinding noise at all. I thought to myself, 13K well-spent after all. Do read on. Drove the Santro home for a quick bite & then to the Ford dealer to pick up my Fiesta smart card. Slowly but steadily, all the noises started coming back. By late evening, it was as bad as with the old pump. So, what gives? Could it be metallic grit in the power steering fluid? They had changed the fluid during the 1st pump-change but refused to do a flush, saying it can't be done. Had read an article on the net sometime ago about a power steering flush using a turkey baster. Hope to find the article again but not sure if I can find the turkey baster. Can I perhaps buy another litre or so of the power steering fluid, open the reservoir cap, detach the return hose from the reservoir, put an empty container (with a sieve on top of it) under the return hose, start the engine & turn the steering wheel from one side to the other. As soon as fluid starts coming out of the return hose, I would start pouring fresh fluid into the reservoir & check the sieve for grit after a while. Is this likely to work or am I going to likely end up saying bye bye to another pump? I am really regretting I didn't try the magnet in the reservoir experiment before changing the pump? Thanks in advance for your replies. Last edited by nura : 3rd March 2010 at 15:05.
	() Thanks

3rd March 2010, 23:54	#24
Otto BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 81 Thanked: 102 Times	Try bleeding your power steering line. it could be air that is causing the problem. Air that is trapped and can't be released. Running the hydraulic pump dry albeit for a few mins is risky. Go ahead with your procedure, but I think you can bleed the line from it's lowest point, without cranking your engine at all. The wheel would be hard to turn, but you'll get all your fluid out.
	() Thanks

4th March 2010, 22:30	#25
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	@Otto Thanks for your reply. Drove the car approx 70 km today. With the previous pumps, there used to be a groaning noise when I used to turn the steering wheel. This noise does not seem to be occurring with this pump. Maybe it will occur later. But the grinding noise on pressing the accelerator has definitely come back. Will try to get a technician to bleed the system tomorrow evening & post the results here for more help. Thanks once again.
	() Thanks

8th March 2010, 11:19	#26
dr.faramroze BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Valsad/Mumbai Posts: 157 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	The same happened in my Xeta, I found out the problem myself. A worn out axle-drive shaft or bearing because that will give play in the power steering which will lead to rpm fluctuations. Try turning the front wheels to their extremes, if it happens, you can get the shaft cone checked.
	() Thanks

20th May 2010, 09:54	#27
nura BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 599 Thanked: 17 Times	It seems the problem is finally solved. In the old Santros (like mine), the crankshaft pulley turns the water-pump pulley & the water-pump pulley turns the power-steering pump pulley via another belt. In the newer Santros, the power-steering pump pulley is turned by the crankshaft pulley itself. An ingenious technician at Saini Hyundai decided to replace my old system with the new one. He removed the new power-steering pump & refitted the old one. A pulley & belt had to be replaced & another pulley & belt had to be removed & discarded. I am now poorer by another few hundred rupees, have an almost new power-steering pump in my kit bag & Team-bhp is heavier by another post. As for the grinding noise, it has completely disappeared. Hope this thread helps someone in a similar situation.
	(1) Thanks

20th May 2010, 14:33	#28
jinojohnt Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,124 Thanked: 794 Times	Please also check my post on dealer malpractices, and decide for yourself whether you have been cheated by the dealer. All (adjustable) belts are supposed to be tightened with specific torques, and are not supposed to be overtightened. Top things to watch out when you give your car for service http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1774911 Last edited by jinojohnt : 20th May 2010 at 14:35.
	() Thanks

20th May 2010, 16:15	#30
jinojohnt Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,124 Thanked: 794 Times	Sad thing is that majority of the technicians tighten using normal spanner/wrench, and check the tightness by pressing with the thumb. This method employs 'gut-feel' way of tightening, and it's very easy to fool the customer saying "Sir, I have tightened with the correct force."
	() Thanks