Baleno Camshaft Position Sensor - Inherent Flaw??

aNiLdEv · 30th May 2007, 15:06

Hi T-BHPians,

It was only a few days back that I came across this post which would have really helped me had I found it earlier...
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...s-daytime.html

Well, I faced exactly the same problem with my Baleno a month ago.

Let me explain the problem in detail so that Baleno enthusiasts/experts can throw some light on this problem which I suspect is an inherent flaw. Here goes the full action-packed thriller story...

I stay very close (3.5 kms to be precise) to my office in Electronics City so as to avoid commuting up and down the busy Hosur Road every day. But as Friday creeps in, I pack up my bags and head to the much greener side of Bangalore to spend the weekend with my friends. A few weeks back, I was driving (like a snail) to my friend's place on a friday evening. It's a 15 km drive to his door step and takes around 1 hour 30 minutes to reach there, thanks to the traffic. On this day, after I covered around 7-8 kms, I started getting a jerk from the engine. Initially I thought I was in the wrong gear for this speed. I confirmed it was the right gear but still the jerk was coming and then started losing power. In between I noticed that the Engine Malfunction Indicator was on which was really a bad sign. The vehicles behind me were honking so badly that I had to race the engine and make way for them. Believe me, the tacho showed 3500 rpm but I was still not getting a feeling of power. In another 2 minutes, the jerk was gone and everything seemed to be normal but for the Malfunction Indicator which was still glowing. I reached home safe but had a sleepless night

The very next day, I took the vehicle to the service center (Green Cars). To my surprise, they were not having the right equipments to diagnose the problem and so asked me 3 days time. I didn't have the patience nor the confidence in them, so headed straight to Suraksha Car Care. The mechanic explained me the probable causes and then fitted the scan tool (Tech 2) to diagnose the problem. Strangely, the tool did not detect any problems, all the sensors were working perfect. He then told me it could be due to a loose connection with any of the sensors. All the sensors were removed and fitted again ensuring the wiring harness was also intact. I felt relieved and went home happy. The mechanic did not charge me a single penny as well.

The weekend was over and it was time to get back to work. On Monday morning, with a bit of hangover, I headed for the office. It was 9:30 AM and the traffic was piling up slowly, I was not in a hurry though. I was almost reaching Electronics City when I started getting the jerk again. Disappointing, but not knowing what to do I pulled over the service road. I didn't want to run the car in this condition anymore because I read in the owner's manual the previous day that if the Malfunction Indicator still glows after the engine starts, it is not advisable to run the car. I called up the mechanic immediately and told him my concerns. He asked me to take the vehicle to their branch in Electronics City. I told them the whole story and the proposed a new idea. They would fit Tech 2 (scan tool) and then run the car till they get encounter the jerk. I wished them good luck and handed over the keys and hurried to office.

By afternoon, I got a call from the service centre. They had diagnosed the problem. It was a faulty Camshaft Position Sensor that was the culprit. But why?? The problem occurs only after running for about 8 kms or 45 minutes in peak traffic conditions. I got the sensor replaced (Rs. 2K) and now everything seems perfect. But, nobody could tell me why this occured. The mechanic too didn't have a proper answer and I attributed the issue as an old-age symptom for the sensor.

After having read a post here on the same topic, I am so eager to know more on this. Is this really a faulty sensor or something to do with the ECM which resulted in damaging the sensor?

Please pour in your thoughts/understanding on this.

Thanks,
Anil Dev

rdkarthik · 31st May 2007, 17:14

Possible. One of my friends baleno had a camshaft sensor failure too. On a 2yr old car.

samnemani · 28th June 2009, 11:28

Hi,
I had a simiarl problem with my Baleno and took it to the workshop atleast 4 times in the last 6 months. Each time they woudl do something and the malfunction indicator would stop glowing.
But this Friday I insited they get teh Tech 2 along fit it in the car and then drive. They did so an observed the error, some code 18 and 19. They attributed the proble to some earthing wire issues and rectified.
I took it for a road test y'day and got the issue again. This time the Tech 2 showed and ECD sensor failure. So they replace that with a stansby they had and again the roda test - but this time aroudn the error occured again with a different code.

So i have left them to figure out what is the problem. They said would get back to me by this monday.

Note: although the malfucntion indicator glow I hae not experienced noticale problem with pickup or greaing. One other think that I noticed is that the Fan (coolent fan) has not been kicking in always - nto sure if that could be the problem too.

Shall keep you guys posted on what happens - any pointers/help is much appreciated.

Note from Mod : Please take the time to re-read your post for typos and spelling errors before submitting. Some browsers like FireFox also provide an in-line spellcheck feature which could be worth using. Thanks.

filcord · 29th July 2009, 15:22

Did you trace the problem? Interested, since this describes a new type of malfunction. Please update.

samnemani · 26th October 2009, 09:47

Hi All,

First up apologies for the typo errors in my earlier post.

The problem recurred a few weeks ago and I gave my car to Varun Motors in Begumpet, Hyderabard. This time I gave for a normal service and also told them about the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) glowing continuously. They kept the vehicle for 3 days and test drove it for abt 100 - 110 kms to zero down on the problem. It was identifeid to be a problem with the ECT Sensor (Engine Coolent Temperature). The problem with this sensor also causes the raditor fan not to startup up and stop as desired.

They replaced the ECT sensor and I am not seeing the problem for the last few days. Will post an update after a longer run and more running in.

One symptom for an issue with the ECT sensor is that the raditor fan does not start and stop regulary or as desired - if you observe that and also see the MIL glowing continuously, then the it could be a problem with the ECT sensor.

Hope this helps.

filcord · 29th October 2009, 15:47

Thanks mate. glad to know this was a one-off. Let us know if the fix has lasted.

arunmur · 29th October 2009, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by samnemani

Hi All,

First up apologies for the typo errors in my earlier post.

The problem recurred a few weeks ago and I gave my car to Varun Motors in Begumpet, Hyderabard. This time I gave for a normal service and also told them about the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) glowing continuously. They kept the vehicle for 3 days and test drove it for abt 100 - 110 kms to zero down on the problem. It was identifeid to be a problem with the ECT Sensor (Engine Coolent Temperature). The problem with this sensor also causes the raditor fan not to startup up and stop as desired.

They replaced the ECT sensor and I am not seeing the problem for the last few days. Will post an update after a longer run and more running in.

One symptom for an issue with the ECT sensor is that the raditor fan does not start and stop regulary or as desired - if you observe that and also see the MIL glowing continuously, then the it could be a problem with the ECT sensor.

Hope this helps.

I think if you would have mentioned the radiator fan not running. The issue would have been plain as a day to identify.

DRC · 29th October 2009, 18:20

cam position sensor and crank shaft position/TDC sensor are basically hall effect sensors casted in specific shapes to fit the mechanicals.

Most common failure modes for these sensors are bias voltage and temperature. both are likely in a cars engine bay.

premdiv · 31st October 2009, 07:33

My baleno is having occasional start up problem. It refuses to crank even though the battery is fine. I have to start the car in 2nd gear then the problem will not recur for the next few days. Does anybody have this problem? Is this due to any sensor issue or wiring problems? Actually i do not trust the MASS as the quality of work i got is really bad during last service and i had to lodge a complaint to maruti. Please help me.

filcord · 2nd November 2009, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by premdiv

My baleno is having occasional start up problem. It refuses to crank even though the battery is fine. I have to start the car in 2nd gear then the problem will not recur for the next few days....

Sounds like starter motor problems. Get it serviced soon, don't start the car in 2nd gear!

30th May 2007, 15:06	#1
aNiLdEv Newbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Kochi/Bangalore Posts: 17 Thanked: 12 Times	Baleno Camshaft Position Sensor - Inherent Flaw?? Hi T-BHPians, It was only a few days back that I came across this post which would have really helped me had I found it earlier... http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...s-daytime.html Well, I faced exactly the same problem with my Baleno a month ago. Let me explain the problem in detail so that Baleno enthusiasts/experts can throw some light on this problem which I suspect is an inherent flaw. Here goes the full action-packed thriller story... I stay very close (3.5 kms to be precise) to my office in Electronics City so as to avoid commuting up and down the busy Hosur Road every day. But as Friday creeps in, I pack up my bags and head to the much greener side of Bangalore to spend the weekend with my friends. A few weeks back, I was driving (like a snail) to my friend's place on a friday evening. It's a 15 km drive to his door step and takes around 1 hour 30 minutes to reach there, thanks to the traffic. On this day, after I covered around 7-8 kms, I started getting a jerk from the engine. Initially I thought I was in the wrong gear for this speed. I confirmed it was the right gear but still the jerk was coming and then started losing power. In between I noticed that the Engine Malfunction Indicator was on which was really a bad sign. The vehicles behind me were honking so badly that I had to race the engine and make way for them. Believe me, the tacho showed 3500 rpm but I was still not getting a feeling of power. In another 2 minutes, the jerk was gone and everything seemed to be normal but for the Malfunction Indicator which was still glowing. I reached home safe but had a sleepless night The very next day, I took the vehicle to the service center (Green Cars). To my surprise, they were not having the right equipments to diagnose the problem and so asked me 3 days time. I didn't have the patience nor the confidence in them, so headed straight to Suraksha Car Care. The mechanic explained me the probable causes and then fitted the scan tool (Tech 2) to diagnose the problem. Strangely, the tool did not detect any problems, all the sensors were working perfect. He then told me it could be due to a loose connection with any of the sensors. All the sensors were removed and fitted again ensuring the wiring harness was also intact. I felt relieved and went home happy. The mechanic did not charge me a single penny as well. The weekend was over and it was time to get back to work. On Monday morning, with a bit of hangover, I headed for the office. It was 9:30 AM and the traffic was piling up slowly, I was not in a hurry though. I was almost reaching Electronics City when I started getting the jerk again. Disappointing, but not knowing what to do I pulled over the service road. I didn't want to run the car in this condition anymore because I read in the owner's manual the previous day that if the Malfunction Indicator still glows after the engine starts, it is not advisable to run the car. I called up the mechanic immediately and told him my concerns. He asked me to take the vehicle to their branch in Electronics City. I told them the whole story and the proposed a new idea. They would fit Tech 2 (scan tool) and then run the car till they get encounter the jerk. I wished them good luck and handed over the keys and hurried to office. By afternoon, I got a call from the service centre. They had diagnosed the problem. It was a faulty Camshaft Position Sensor that was the culprit. But why?? The problem occurs only after running for about 8 kms or 45 minutes in peak traffic conditions. I got the sensor replaced (Rs. 2K) and now everything seems perfect. But, nobody could tell me why this occured. The mechanic too didn't have a proper answer and I attributed the issue as an old-age symptom for the sensor. After having read a post here on the same topic, I am so eager to know more on this. Is this really a faulty sensor or something to do with the ECM which resulted in damaging the sensor? Please pour in your thoughts/understanding on this. Thanks, Anil Dev
	() Thanks

31st May 2007, 17:14	#2
rdkarthik BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: bangalore Posts: 206 Thanked: 13 Times	Possible. One of my friends baleno had a camshaft sensor failure too. On a 2yr old car.
	() Thanks

28th June 2009, 11:28	#3
samnemani Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 9 Thanked: 4 Times	Simliar problem Hi, I had a simiarl problem with my Baleno and took it to the workshop atleast 4 times in the last 6 months. Each time they woudl do something and the malfunction indicator would stop glowing. But this Friday I insited they get teh Tech 2 along fit it in the car and then drive. They did so an observed the error, some code 18 and 19. They attributed the proble to some earthing wire issues and rectified. I took it for a road test y'day and got the issue again. This time the Tech 2 showed and ECD sensor failure. So they replace that with a stansby they had and again the roda test - but this time aroudn the error occured again with a different code. So i have left them to figure out what is the problem. They said would get back to me by this monday. Note: although the malfucntion indicator glow I hae not experienced noticale problem with pickup or greaing. One other think that I noticed is that the Fan (coolent fan) has not been kicking in always - nto sure if that could be the problem too. Shall keep you guys posted on what happens - any pointers/help is much appreciated. Note from Mod : Please take the time to re-read your post for typos and spelling errors before submitting. Some browsers like FireFox also provide an in-line spellcheck feature which could be worth using. Thanks. Last edited by Rehaan : 1st July 2009 at 12:39. Reason: Please take a look at the note that has been placed at the bottom of your post.
	() Thanks

29th July 2009, 15:22	#4
filcord BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: goa Posts: 998 Thanked: 68 Times	Did you trace the problem? Interested, since this describes a new type of malfunction. Please update.
	() Thanks

26th October 2009, 09:47	#5
samnemani Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 9 Thanked: 4 Times	Problem identified and fixed Hi All, First up apologies for the typo errors in my earlier post. The problem recurred a few weeks ago and I gave my car to Varun Motors in Begumpet, Hyderabard. This time I gave for a normal service and also told them about the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) glowing continuously. They kept the vehicle for 3 days and test drove it for abt 100 - 110 kms to zero down on the problem. It was identifeid to be a problem with the ECT Sensor (Engine Coolent Temperature). The problem with this sensor also causes the raditor fan not to startup up and stop as desired. They replaced the ECT sensor and I am not seeing the problem for the last few days. Will post an update after a longer run and more running in. One symptom for an issue with the ECT sensor is that the raditor fan does not start and stop regulary or as desired - if you observe that and also see the MIL glowing continuously, then the it could be a problem with the ECT sensor. Hope this helps.
	() Thanks

29th October 2009, 15:47	#6
filcord BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: goa Posts: 998 Thanked: 68 Times	Thanks mate. glad to know this was a one-off. Let us know if the fix has lasted.
	() Thanks

29th October 2009, 18:20	#8
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 66 Times View My Garage	cam position sensor and crank shaft position/TDC sensor are basically hall effect sensors casted in specific shapes to fit the mechanicals. Most common failure modes for these sensors are bias voltage and temperature. both are likely in a cars engine bay.
	() Thanks

31st October 2009, 07:33	#9
premdiv BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 164 Thanked: 2 Times	My baleno is having occasional start up problem. It refuses to crank even though the battery is fine. I have to start the car in 2nd gear then the problem will not recur for the next few days. Does anybody have this problem? Is this due to any sensor issue or wiring problems? Actually i do not trust the MASS as the quality of work i got is really bad during last service and i had to lodge a complaint to maruti. Please help me.
	() Thanks

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