[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by androdev

There are many scenarios in which the there could be voltage spikes. For instance, a weak or an undersized battery might be able to start the engine but only after a steep drop in voltage (Engines can start even with 6V) and right after that engine startup is completed, the voltage spikes back to a much higher value.

Will like to know more about this, I am not entirely with you on this as 6V is very low voltage and starter won’t work. Besides, batteries won’t produce a higher voltage than the maximum or atleast that’s my understanding. Else, everything from watches to transisitors and almost all electronics can fail when the batteries goes down.

Regarding the jump start, that has to do more with how we connect the batteries, like lose wires or say with proper jumper wires.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Will like to know more about this, I am not entirely with you on this as 6V is very low voltage and starter won’t work. Besides, batteries won’t produce a higher voltage than the maximum or atleast that’s my understanding. Else, everything from watches to transisitors and almost all electronics can fail when the batteries goes down.

Regarding the jump start, that has to do more with how we connect the batteries, like lose wires or say with proper jumper wires.

It is not the low voltage that causes the problem but the spikes during engine cranking (same applies to jump starting also). Here is a sample of voltage and current chart during engine cranking:



Source: https://www.powerstream.com/voltage-...e-starting.htm

Here is a snippet from another source:

ABSTRACT
Automotive electronic systems can be subjected to wide input voltage variations resulting from cold cranking and load dump conditions. The need for over voltage protection is particularly common in automotive 12 V and 24 V systems where peak load dump transients can be as high as 60 V. Cranking condition sags the battery voltage to a low value when the battery is supplying current to an electric starter motor. This application report presents a power supply design using LM5088-Q1 (wide input range non synchronous buck controller) with protection for load dump, reverse polarity and cold cranking conditions conducive to the automotive environment.

Source: https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva681a/snva681a.pdf

I am not supporting VW here. VW could be totally wrong and unscrupulous in their diagnosis. It is also possible they are not using high quality surge protection components to make the DSG ECUs robust.

Just want to point out that battery quality, spec and health are very important in modern cars. It is better to replace the battery as a preventive maintenance to avoid costly chips getting fried.

[BleueNinja]

I recently posed a question on forum if I it would be a good idea to replace my Honda City with a Virtus given the DSG issues that creep up sooner or later. I ended up cancelling my booking.

I have had my fair share of bizarre explanations given by VW for my queries :

I was strongly advised by VW Hyderabad not to change my polo TSI AT’s tyres. I wanted to upsize from MRF 185/65/R15 to 195/55/R16 continental uc6. They said it wouldn’t be a good idea as in case of any defect or damage caused to suspension or errors with steering wheel, the aftermarket tyres would be the primary suspect and my warranty can be considered as void.

I was baffled by their statement as Highline and GT variant of polo come with same tyre specification.

They didn’t let me change my car’s headlight to LED stating the same reasons highlighted by OP in their original post. A change of bulb might cause electrical issues with the car which may or may not affect the gearbox as well but, when I checked with VW Pune they were ready to change bulbs of my car from halogen to LED as they saw no problems with it. The dealership themselves aren’t on the same page.

[SiddVish]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

They didn’t let me change my car’s headlight to LED stating the same reasons highlighted by OP in their original post. A change of bulb might cause electrical issues with the car which may or may not affect the gearbox as well

By any chance do you have this in writing because I did get my headlight bulbs changed with VW service in December and if I were to use the same logic, the gearbox did fail once this was done.

The car however has been running on amaron batteries since 2019

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

I have had my fair share of bizarre explanations given by VW for my queries
---

And the idiosyncrasies don't stop at just headlights and tyres. Virtually anything you buy outside of the dealership, and they get freaked out easily.
However, generally speaking, if you purchase from them, they are happy to accommodate, atleast in Pune.

I wanted to upgrade my Vento's HU "officially", and so I asked the dealership for a quotation. I was shocked when they quoted me almost twice what it would have costed normally.
I coolly got it from an outside vendor and told the dealer to take a hike.
And it has had no effect on the warranty whatsoever.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

I wanted to upgrade my Vento's HU "officially", and so I asked the dealership for a quotation. I was shocked when they quoted me almost twice what it would have costed normally.

How much did the unit cost you? it would be a great help if you could please let me know of a reliable car-decor or after market parts provider in Pune from where I can get work done on both my cars. I am new to Pune.

Originally Posted by SiddVish

By any chance do you have this in writing because I did get my headlight bulbs changed with VW service in December and if I were to use the same logic, the gearbox did fail once this was done.

Unfortunately, No. they weren’t ready to install it or let me get it installed from outside the service centre.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

How much did the unit cost you?

Approx 26k.
I have put up some views here - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/car-e...ves-owner.html (My Vento's super RCD340G headunit : Perspectives of an owner)

it would be a great help if you could please let me know of a reliable car-decor or after market parts provider in Pune from where I can get work done on both my cars. I am new to Pune.

There are a couple that I have visited:
1). Bafna Cars, FC Road
2). CarAx, Baner, Pune-Mum highway

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by SiddVish

On pushing further, they say the reason for the failure is the amaron battery we installed 6 months ago. Interestingly, this is the second amaron battery we’ve installed. The first ran from 2019 till 2021 without a hitch. Maybe we got lucky the first time around?

I call out BS on the reason given by the VAG dealer on the DQ200 failure. Everybody on TBHP knows the reliability factor of that particular GB model isn't exactly a feather in VAG's cap. They would naturally try and perform a CYA to protect the company's and product's reputation in the market. Yes, modern car electronics are sensitive to voltage delivered but that's more of a function of the alternator rather than the battery which is mainly used for starting and ignition (petrol) when the engine is off. An electro-mechanically operated tranny like the DSG would be operational when the engine is started (alt. supplying power) at stand-still & spend a large part of its life switching through the gears when the car is in motion.

As admirable as this GB is technology and performance wise, the fact is it is unreliable over the long term and it is possibly exacerbated in tropical/Indian conditions. Repairs are a part of the VW DQ200 "tax" as I call it.

I think the best you could do is request a warranty replacement or if that does not work a discount on the replacement part cost.

[pgoyal1996]

Originally Posted by VRJ

Since I’m associated with Amaron, I’m not going to further comment regarding the quality of the battery as it’s against our forum rules. However, what I’d like to share is VAG or any other European car company would spend more time and effort to figure out how to void warranty than fix their fundamentally flawed cars. I’ve experienced this first hand. I don’t want to get in to the specifics on a public forum. They simply blame it on the aftermarket product if something goes wrong. Ask the dealership or VW an explanation on how an aftermarket battery is the reason for mechatronics to fail.

[Trimmed the OG Post]

Cheers!

I somewhere agree with you.

The Exide battery, VAG cars inherently are supplied with are of no good use . They don't even last when the car is not used much [Personal experience].

We have a Vento 1.6 MPI Trendline 2011, which was earlier sitting in our house. Mid 2018 [odo around 17k], we were now in a position to drive it again.

Water pump, Radiator and battery were installed and the regular servicing was done. This was to address the overheating issue since, the coolant was leaking from radiator as a result of oxidization of the radiator fins because of the car not being in use for long.

We came in with a new exide battery [12v/45Ah, I guess] to our hometown Roorkee from VW Dehradun [Dehradun is where the nearest service centre of VW is from Roorkee; Distance nearly 80 kms a side].

For some reason, the car was not required for next two days. The third day when we tried to start it, the battery just died! and, mind you, that there is no parking surveillance system in the trendline model and only the central locking with an LED blinker on the driver door! At this point, after spending almost 55k with the above replacements and service we were so frustrated that we left it there. I agree that we didn't claim warranty and VW is only partially responsible for this, being so far away!

We tried contacting them over mail to see what could be done and, got a regular reply, " Sir, please bring the car to showroom, the battery would be tested and only then, VW will decide whether to honour the warranty and to provide you with a new battery or not"...

In the meanwhile, we push started the car and got a local Amaron exclusive dealer to install the 12V/55 Ah rated battery. Since then, the battery has almost completed 3.5 Yrs and we haven't faced any battery related issues [Touchwood] even when the car was not used for over 3 weeks.

I don't know how inherently superior or inferior the Amaron battery is if compared to the exide battery VAG supplies with the car but, it feels my moral duty to to share it that, the Amaron battery came in with a 2 Year no questions asked replacement warranty and another 2 Years of repair guarantee in case any problem is faced while, the exide battery only comes with a 2 Year warranty only and that too with endless procedure of VAG to claim a simple warranty replacement. That does make a statement in itself.

The statement from, VAG person just seems absurd. I simply fail to understand how would a faulty battery, which is in use for 6 months already, will lead to a mechatronic failure

[theabstractmind]

Originally Posted by VRJ

Did the dealership point out that ‘Hey, that’s an aftermarket battery. That voids factory warranty. You have to change it right away to the one we sell here at a ridiculous price’.
Cheers!

They did tell me, in VW Mysore Road, Bangalore. I have ignored as my car is anyway out of warranty and I bought it in the used car market. I will any which way know that if the DSG fails it will be due to the DSG and not the battery.

[EV NXT]

It would have been easier to believe if they attributed the failure to the blue shirt being worn by the owner.

Adding to an earlier post of mine on what you need to be prepared for when buy a DSG -

1. incompetent assessments by the ASS - going wrong because of incompetence

2. deliberate incorrect assessments by the ASS to get you to pay

3. waiting for the factory guys to come and have a look at the car - at least 2 weeks.

4. long lead times for approvals - another week.

5. rejection of your claim because you’re wearing a blue shirt or similar equally convincing reason.

6. vandalism, change of parts while in the ASS

7. Other damage to the car while waiting in the ASS for anything upto 8 weeks or more,

7. final payments being a lot more than what one expected,

8. and finally babying the car after getting it back in fear of another DSG outage.

Welcome to the DSG experience. It’s not a straight 2 lakhs payment and off you go. It’s a lot more misery added. When you buy a DSG, all this is a part of the package.

[milindpotdar]

Originally Posted by VRJ

I just feel it’s ridiculous and not fair that VAG doesn’t accept after market batteries and forces you to pay a lot more money to change the battery in their service centre. When a 200BHP Toyota Fortuner can accept an Amaron battery or any other brand battery, why can’t a Volkswagen Vento with 115 odd horsepower accept it?

Cheers!

As an ECU designer, HW was designed around vehicle electric architecture. Therefore, any unnecessary power consideration adds design complexity and eventually adds lots of costs based on manufacturing quantity. So the power constraints are stringent, and this is why newer cars have any unauthorized change in component or wire cutting that leads to warranty void. The ECU is designed for robustness within constraints, and it works fine in specified limits.
Any external component looks a perfect fit in functionality but is unreliable, and sometimes non-OEM components perform better than OEM components.
Since most modern car's electronics have driven, while changing components, need to adhere to OEM specification. Simply it has 12V and perfectly fits does not solve your problem, might create a new one.
The battery might have a perfect rating as per OEM in the discussion issue. However, the design element on which electric system design is not fulfilling and unwanted signal/power level lead to component failure.

[low_rider]

VW people know whom they are dealing with. They know that Indian customer despite knowing that DSG will fail will still buy it. They know that they will charge hefty amount of money for DSG repair and Indian customer will cry on online forums for few days and then pay.

Even recently, people are buying Kushaq/Taigun/Slavia with the same DSG and totally aware what the fate has in store for them.

If someone buys a DSG car totally unaware of the risks, then we can feel sorry for them. But if someone buys a DSG with complete knowledge of the risks it posses and the manufacturer's attitude, then nothing can be said.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by milindpotdar

So the power constraints are stringent, and this is why newer cars have any unauthorized change in component or wire cutting that leads to warranty void. The ECU is designed for robustness within constraints, and it works fine in specified limits.

Stringent as per SAE?

The Alternator as well as the automotive battery will need to meet that spec, considering OEM dealer workshops use 'local spare' battery, no need to doubt if an aftermarket battery will meet or not.

[anshumandun]

When I went to buy extended warranty for my GT TSI, I was forced to change from Amaron to the OEM battery. If I did not agree to change to OEM battery, VW would not sell me the extended warranty. So blaming the battery for the DSG failure is their unofficial protocol.