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Amaron battery 2 0.86%
It’s a DSG in India 211 90.95%
Normal Wear and tear 19 8.19%
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Old 25th March 2022, 12:18   #31
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
That must be a brand new reason from VW dealers unless I am living in a cave. When the battery dies, worst case, the output voltage can drop but how will this affect the mechatronics and that too when the starter motor is working
+1 to this. Been a VW owner for over a decade now and this is the first time I am hearing a new battery causing such a problem.

Given my personal experience with VW, I am sure that this is another case of VW diverting fault elsewhere to save themselves of any blame. They truly have become shameless, lying has become a part of VW India's DNA when it comes to after-sales component of the ownership experience.

Ask VW to put their diagnosis in written ideally with official letterhead and send it to you, that will give you leverage in taking the next steps, especially in this case where they are blaming the battery. Yes, they are officially required to do this if requested by the customer.

After my first experience with VW DSGs, I decided to steer clear of this particular DSG. As a thumb rule, I always tell my friends to factor in the cost of potential DSG repairs into the overall buying cost of the car if they are adamant on going in for a DSG.

Sorry for your troubles and wish your Vento gets back on the road real soon!
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Old 25th March 2022, 12:49   #32
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

I have read on many occasions dealers cribbing about the battery as a means to void the warranty.
I used Amaron once and then went back to VW’s battery because the black battery looks better in the engine bay. The cost difference was only 1k and I feel that the Manufacturer knows best even though my car is out of warranty. The aftermarket battery for my Polo TSI was also not the same aH that VW sells.
There is definitely a chance, no matter how small that the battery contributed for the electronic part failure. Now one might argue it could happen with the VW battery too, but then you have a stronger leg to stand on.
With that being said, if you haven’t prepared your budget for a DSG failure, then you must use everything from the dealer along with extended warranty to get claims. That’s just the way smart ownership works.
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Old 25th March 2022, 12:52   #33
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

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Originally Posted by BleueNinja View Post
I recently posed a question on forum if I it would be a good idea to replace my Honda City with a Virtus given the DSG issues that creep up sooner or later. I ended up cancelling my booking.

I have had my fair share of bizarre explanations given by VW for my queries :

I was strongly advised by VW Hyderabad not to change my polo TSI AT’s tyres. I wanted to upsize from MRF 185/65/R15 to 195/55/R16 continental uc6. They said it wouldn’t be a good idea as in case of any defect or damage caused to suspension or errors with steering wheel, the aftermarket tyres would be the primary suspect and my warranty can be considered as void.

I was baffled by their statement as Highline and GT variant of polo come with same tyre specification.

They didn’t let me change my car’s headlight to LED stating the same reasons highlighted by OP in their original post. A change of bulb might cause electrical issues with the car which may or may not affect the gearbox as well but, when I checked with VW Pune they were ready to change bulbs of my car from halogen to LED as they saw no problems with it. The dealership themselves aren’t on the same page.
gearbox claims have been approved with cars having exhausts and bixenons with wires cut on one end, and denied claims for having plug and play aftermarket headlights. It’s all a gamble and your relationship with your dealer plays a big role.
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Old 25th March 2022, 13:03   #34
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Stringent as per SAE?

The Alternator as well as the automotive battery will need to meet that spec, considering OEM dealer workshops use 'local spare' battery, no need to doubt if an aftermarket battery will meet or not.
I agree with you that the specification should match. However, when replacing an electronic component, we should use the recommended manufacturing, especially lots of electronics-controlled vehicles.

In my experience, the power supply of ECU (especially capacitor and regulator) gets the most hit.

I found an excellent informative link on why ECU fails - "https://oards.com/causes-of-engine-ecu-failure/"
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Old 25th March 2022, 14:21   #35
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

A quick question as a fellow DSG owner: Would Engine Protect add on cover DSG replacement in case of it happening due to wear and tear and not an accident?
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Old 25th March 2022, 15:20   #36
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

Today I gave my polo gt tsi to service centre to change the faulty ABS sensor as the warning started glowing in the console. My warranty is about to expire on march 30th. Advisor asked me whether I will be interested in taking the add on warranty to which I agreed. He said before issuing the addon warranty they will inspect the vehicle for any faults. After clearing the faults only they will issue add on warranty.

While I was reading this post got a call from the advisor saying that they cannot issue the addon warranty since I ve changed the battery from outside. He said battery not supplied by VW may cause mechatronics failure in future. VW is very specific about the batteries used in their automatic transmissions whereas in the manual transmission there is no problem if use other batteries. Inorder to take addon warranty I have to change my existing battery with that of VW supplied ones.
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Old 25th March 2022, 15:51   #37
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

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Originally Posted by s4ch View Post
A quick question as a fellow DSG owner: Would Engine Protect add on cover DSG replacement in case of it happening due to wear and tear and not an accident?
Not covered. Covered in instances of flooding and accident related damage. The insurance company would close this off as normal wear and tear and not be liable for compensation. There is a reason why there are so many cheap VW Polos and Ventos in the used car market, given their notorious service history.

Cheers!
VJ

Last edited by VijayAnand1 : 25th March 2022 at 15:52.
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Old 25th March 2022, 19:19   #38
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

I fail to understand how the battery is at fault.
As rightly pointed out in multiple posts above, the battery's job is to start the car and power auxiliary systems when the engine is not running, once the engine is up and runningthe entire load is taken up by the alternator.

Would be interesting to get the ASC's detailed explanation on how the battery caused this problem.

Suppose the battery is the culprit and the electronics failed due to over current / voltage - shouldn't the fuse come into play here?
Surely there would be other surge protection built into this fancy electronic system.
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Old 25th March 2022, 20:34   #39
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

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Originally Posted by pgoyal1996 View Post
I somewhere agree with you.

The Exide battery, VAG cars inherently are supplied with are of no good use . They don't even last when the car is not used much [Personal experience].

We came in with a new exide battery [12v/45Ah, I guess]
At this point, after spending almost 55k with the above replacements and service we were so frustrated that we left it there.

the exide battery VAG supplies with the car, the exide battery only comes with a 2 Year warranty only and that too with endless procedure of VAG to claim a simple warranty replacement. That does make a statement in itself.
The battery that comes with your new car is mediocre. No matter what brand it is. They're built to cost. Majority of them come with 12 months to 24 months warranty. When you meant the exide battery supplied by VAG, do you mean the battery that came with your car or the one installed at the dealership? I'm still surprised that your car didn't start after not using it for two days on a brand new battery. You should've claimed warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milindpotdar View Post
Simply it has 12V and perfectly fits does not solve your problem, might create a new one.
The battery might have a perfect rating as per OEM in the discussion issue. However, the design element on which electric system design is not fulfilling and unwanted signal/power level lead to component failure.
Well, you're the expert and i'd appreciate it if you can answer a couple of queries. I'm more of a finance and logistics person.

1. Are ECU's or electronic systems used by VAG/European car manufacturers different from American/Japanese/Korean manufacturers? If so, how? (in simple terms, please )

2. I've heard cutting a wire voids warranty even on a Maruti. There are thousands of car owners who get their horn/lights/infotainment screen etc. replaced in the aftermarket. Majority of Thar owners can kiss goodbye to their warranty.

3. What makes VAG special? This is a question i'd like to highlight and should've mentioned in my earlier post. Is VAG the only mass manufacturer that sells cars in India? I've heard VAG is based a lot on sensors when compared with other cars. I guess all modern cars are based on sensors. Hyundai was the first one to bring luxury segment features to the mass market and is leading even today. A 16L Verna has ventilated seats, but a 85L BMW X4 does not. A Polo did not even come with a reverse camera for many years. So, how come Hyundai doesn't void warranty when you change a battery in the aftermarket? If you ask me how i know this, there are two Hyundai dealers in my city and i supply to both of them. They wouldn't be buying from me if it voids warranty, would they? Why doesn't Toyota void warranty if you install an aftermarket battery? Ok, lets leave the Japanese and Korean manufacturers. I've heard that Ford is also based a lot on sensors. Ford dealership buys batteries from me. Never had a problem. Jeep buys batteries from me. Never had a problem. An Endeavour and Compass are ok to run on an aftermarket battery, but a 12L Polo isn't. Such is the complexity of a Polo/Vento/Rapid?

Coming back to the question, what makes VAG special? VAG is after all a mass manufacturer and is a global leader in terms of sales. How come no other mass manufacturer in India has a problem with an aftermarket battery, but VAG does? Maybe there is a strong technical answer to this (or is VAG doing this to complete some budget?), but this isn't fair to the average customer. VAG isn't the only one with a dual clutch transmission (DSG and DCT). Hyundai, Kia, and MG have them and they don't have a problem with an aftermarket battery. VAG voiding DSG warranty because of a battery installed in the aftermarket just isn't fair. In the aftermarket you can get a battery of any leading brand with 55 months to 66 months warranty (you'll probably sell the car before the warranty ends), but the Varta battery that the dealer sells comes with only 24 months warranty (please correct me if i'm wrong regarding the warranty). I guess at the end of the day, a customer has no choice but adhere to these rules to protect the DSG warranty. Whats's funny is you do everything that the dealer tells you to and the DSG still fails and you end up paying a lakh.

Cheers!

Last edited by VRJ : 25th March 2022 at 20:41. Reason: grammatical error.
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Old 25th March 2022, 22:06   #40
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

What VW India and some fellow owners failed to understand is that the cars and the DSG transmissions are made to be used in India. So it must undergo enough testing, R&D etc before concluding it's an engineering marvel. If the Japanese, Indian and Korean manufacturers can produce reliable cars and transmissions in India, then VAG should do it better than them. That's what we expect from German engineering.

DSG in India is nothing but an unreliable and overrated transmission. Coupled with the infamous VW India service is nothing short of a disaster. Yet, many owners will defend it and many will still buy it and more importantly VAG will sell it again and again, unapologetically.

In my opinion, any failure of DSG for at least 10 years must be taken care by VW India at no cost to customers. That too in a timely manner, not more than 2 weeks. Till then these kinds of silly excuses will keep coming from the manufacturer as well as service networks.
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Old 25th March 2022, 22:13   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRJ View Post
1. Are ECU's or electronic systems used by VAG/European car manufacturers different from American/Japanese/Korean manufacturers? If so, how? (in simple terms, please )
It depends on the system design if you consider ECU, primarily manufactured by the BOSCH, DENSO, Continental, which almost 99% OEM use for engines. However, in the case of transmission, the system is designed by the respective OEM or their supplier, having particular specifications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRJ View Post
2. I've heard cutting a wire voids warranty even on a Maruti. There are thousands of car owners who get their horn/lights/infotainment screen etc. replaced in the aftermarket. Majority of Thar owners can kiss goodbye to their warranty.
When you cut the headphone wire and connect it back, you hear little noise even if you do proper insulation. The wiring harness is built for a specific purpose, and changing alters it; it's a bad idea, introducing an unwanted signal that affects the nearby wires. In addition, it may affect the sensor signals, which causes failure. Inspection of the harness is time-consuming as well as bad for vehicles. So OEM refuses a warranty if the harness is cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
A Guy here!

The battery`s job is to start the engine - afterwards the alternator takes care of the power requirements. Amaron is known to last, DSG - the opposite.

Talking about the battery, when it comes to these VAG vehicles its better to buy a new one before the battery wears out, that way you are less likely to deal with injectors, gearbox, engine and what not.
Due to the lower voltage of the battery, electronics component failures are minor. However, electro-mechanical components are higher. This is because electro-mechanical functionality depends on the sensor feedback. In lower voltage desire, results are not obtained; hence the control logic tries to provide more power. This results in overheating of electro-mechanical components, and that leads to failure. When motor heats, it draws more current and burden on drivers, which leads to electronic failure.

The main cause for DSG failure due to
IC motor
high-pressure pump
solenoid valve


Automotive electronics (operate at 10-14.5V) focus more on reliability, and tolerances are less than industrial electronics (typically operate 8 - 36V).

Selecting comprehensive power supply components for design increases the cost and complexity; it is useless when it is clear that your vehicle will operate in the voltage range.

OEM has a specific battery design; however, aftermarket batteries are manufactured for wide customers, and specific design specifications are compromised, leading to failure, especially cars that run on more electronics.

Last edited by Turbanator : 25th March 2022 at 22:22. Reason: Merged back to back posts
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Old 26th March 2022, 01:49   #42
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRJ View Post
The battery that comes with your new car is mediocre. No matter what brand it is. They're built to cost. Majority of them come with 12 months to 24 months warranty. When you meant the exide battery supplied by VAG, do you mean the battery that came with your car or the one installed at the dealership? I'm still surprised that your car didn't start after not using it for two days on a brand new battery. You should've claimed warranty.


ease correct me if i'm wrong regarding the warranty). I guess at the end of the day, a customer has no choice but adhere to these rules to protect the DSG warranty. Whats's funny is you do everything that the dealer tells you to and the DSG still fails and you end up paying a lakh.

Cheers!
The gearbox -will- fail. It is not a matter of -if- but rather -when-.
Keeping this in mind:
1. If it fails within the warranty -> you haven’t voided the terms of the warranty -> a free fix

2. If it fails outside warranty -> goodwill discount or cash

Not too difficult to comprehend, if you wish to use warranty stick to the manufacturers terms and conditions. I don’t see anyone raising a fuss about having to use dealership for service for warranty when in the states you just need to have a record of servicing for warranty.
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Old 26th March 2022, 11:03   #43
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRJ View Post
The battery that comes with your new car is mediocre. No matter what brand it is. They're built to cost. Majority of them come with 12 months to 24 months warranty. When you meant the exide battery supplied by VAG, do you mean the battery that came with your car or the one installed at the dealership? I'm still surprised that your car didn't start after not using it for two days on a brand new battery. You should've claimed warranty.

Cheers!
I was trying to mention about the battery installed by the dealership.

+1, even we were surprised. Being from service class, 6 days working, dealership being 80 kms away[Travelling of 80*4 Kms], lead time of 2+ days, to change a battery which won't even give me a sense of reliability is of no use, IMHO. Of course, keeping the one time monetary losses aside
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Old 26th March 2022, 19:43   #44
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

Was in Goa last week and my July 2019 Rapid DSG suddenly refused to crank up post filling up diesel on a Saturday evening. Had to return to Mumbai on Sunday. My RSA was on leave so called up another guy and was advised to connect with local Skoda dealers.

Since this was a Saturday evening and VW/Skoda service centres are shut on Sunday decided to get the Battery replaced from outside considering that its a simple plug and play. I am on good terms with my RSA and can only hope that this simple thing is not highlighted if ever DSG fails within warranty period.
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Old 26th March 2022, 20:55   #45
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Re: Mechatronics failure, Volkswagen Vento DSG

VW DSG stories are getting too long in the tooth I must say.
There’s no surprise or shock when the dry clutch 7 speed fails.
If it’s in warranty it’s free, if not just pay for it.
Unnecessary posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhi7992 View Post
Was in Goa last week and my July 2019 Rapid DSG suddenly refused to crank up post filling up diesel on a Saturday evening. Had to return to Mumbai on Sunday. My RSA was on leave so called up another guy and was advised to connect with local Skoda dealers.

Since this was a Saturday evening and VW/Skoda service centres are shut on Sunday decided to get the Battery replaced from outside considering that its a simple plug and play. I am on good terms with my RSA and can only hope that this simple thing is not highlighted if ever DSG fails within warranty period.
It will come up, that’s just the way VW/SKODA warranty works. However you can always get the dealer battery if your gearbox fails lmao and claim warranty. Provided the dealership is willing.

Last edited by H_Dogg72 : 26th March 2022 at 20:56.
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