[maddyg]

Dear All,

Writing this to seek possible approaches to the problem. I have 2021 black edition XT+. Ran flawlessly for 13+ months and now 23500km on Odo. Currently i'm away from from home(Bangalore) and at Goa for work. Car is refusing to start - starter cranks for 10 seconds or so and then stops - a message 'Engine Locked' is displayed. The immobiliser lock symbol keeps on flashing (once cranking is finished, check engine and malfunction lamp is also glowing). I can unlock using remote, using the request button, all other electrical working fine. This is happening from yesterday night, no unusual observations, the usage was typical.

Tata service in Goa suggested keeping the key fob near push start button, this worked once and then car started normal second time (with key fob in pocket). Didn't dare to take it out being a Sunday(the service centre do not function) , but this method also ceased to work now. Key fob near push button also does not makes a difference.

Service centre advice to tow which i wish is a last resort, wondering if there is any means to start the car so that i can take to ASS.

Literally stranded due to this problem. Would changing the key fob battery help ? KHT Bangalore suggested disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes. Haven't tried this yet.

The attached image is after pushing the start/stop once(cranked for 6 seconds approx).

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by maddyg

- Car is refusing to start - starter cranks for 10 seconds or so and then stops - a message 'Engine Locked' is displayed.
- The immobiliser lock symbol keeps on flashing (once cranking is finished, check engine and malfunction lamp is also glowing); happening from yesterday night, no unusual observations, the usage was typical

Either communication between the key and the immobilizer is lost OR the immobilizer module is defective.
Does the immobilizer light on the dash blink even before you crank the car? If yes, then I'd suspect the immobilizer module.

If the key fob battery had died down, it should have thrown a warning. No harm in changing the battery on the key fob but I doubt if that would work. I suggest getting the car to Tata Goa to rectify the issue OR call them over to your location with a scan tool to check what is wrong.

[sridhu]

Did the fob, by any chance, get wet?

Try opening it out, drying it, changing the battery & restarting

[maddyg]

Originally Posted by vigsom

Does the immobilizer light on the dash blink even before you crank the car? If yes, then I'd suspect the immobilizer module.

The immobiizer light keeps blinking even after door is unlocked. Noticed once if fob is kept next to the push button, it stops blinking and goes off.

Originally Posted by sridhu

Did the fob, by any chance, get wet?

Try opening it out, drying it, changing the battery & restarting

Fob did not get wet.

[shancz]

Had the same experience with our wagonR when the keyfob fell and the immobiliser chip came flying out.
The cover was opened and the immobiliser chip inserted in its slot and no issues after that.

If you can, open the cover and see if any chip seems to have come out or seems to be out of its place.
Else get the spare key which should have the immobiliser functioning and use this one for remote locks if the battery is out on that one.

IMO immobiliser isn't dependent on the keyfob battery, at least not in my case.

[GTO]

Had similar experiences with my 530d, where the starter would crank in a healthy manner & endlessly, but the engine wouldn't fire up. Turns out, it was radio interference with police radio signals! Who would've thought! Related discussion (BMW radio frequency interference | Smartkey doesn't work in specific areas | EDIT: Solved on page 2). Thanks to the suggestions from BHPians, I now keep an aluminium foil in the car. Whenever there is radio interference, I wrap the key in the aluminium foil, stick it to the steering console and voila! That 6-cylinder fires up like an eager horse.

Either something as unpredictable as this, or your key or your immobilizer gone kaput.

[Kosfactor]

What I have observed with the central locking system of Safari, it often thinks that the key is inside and refuses to lock the vehicle , keeps honking as you press the request sensor.

So you have to unlock and lock using the button to let it know that key is outside. This maybe another symptom of the same problem - central locking system.

Take a piece of tape and attach the keyfob next to the start button / key cylinder and see if you can go home with it.

[maddyg]

Originally Posted by GTO

Had similar experiences with my 530d, where the starter would crank in a healthy manner & endlessly, but the engine wouldn't fire up. Turns out, it was radio interference with police radio signals! Who would've thought! e.

Yes Sir, i remember. i suggested the foil hack in your thread.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

What I have observed with the central locking system of Safari, it often thinks that the key is inside and refuses to lock the vehicle , keeps honking as you press the request sensor.

So you have to unlock and lock using the button to let it know that key is outside. This maybe another symptom of the same problem - central locking system.

Take a piece of tape and attach the keyfob next to the start button / key cylinder and see if you can go home with it.

Tried locking/unlocking with the remote as well as the request button. The immobiliser is sometimes disabled if the key fob is kept near the push start button. Trying to take it ASS tomorrow.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by maddyg

Tried locking/unlocking with the remote as well as the request button. The immobiliser is sometimes disabled if the key fob is kept near the push start button. Trying to take it ASS tomorrow.

My old school Safari had built up some rust in the central locking module (I hope it is the correct name) placed under the driver’s seat. It had similar issues with starting and some lights blinking. The module’s wire connections were pulled and inserted back with some oil drops. No issues observed after that.

[maddyg]

So today morning, tried changing the battery. Now the immobiliser is behaving as normal. Taking it to ASS, shall update soon.

Here are the errors in the scanning. ASS is sticking to the fob battery low, i made check voltage old battery , it was 3.03v. I suspect something else in play. Still at ASS, it will be great to know if anything else to be checked. Immobiliser functioning normal from morning. Tried at least 15 times. ASS says these are codes in memory from the previous attempt.
It appears immobilier chip is powered from battery as it need to get detected anywhere inside the cabin, not just near the immobilser antenna (near push button? - manual says its under the storage location)





Update: Trying with old battery. Immboliser getting disabled as usual. No symptoms at all. This is a bit confusing.

[maddyg]

The whole episode repeated again. ASS were accommodative to my request to send some one. Similar errors thrown up in scanning. They couldn’t get the immobiliser disabled. Now waiting for a flat bed.

Finally flatbad came. Pleasantly surprised with SP cars(Tata ASS, Verna) proactive action. They coordinated with RSA and even offered to be with car till the pick up so that i can leave. Later the team including service manager and PR arrived much before truck and gave me company for couple of hours. They even tried to start, but nothing worked this time.

Does it worth to wait to get the spare key from Bangalore before the troubleshooting starts ? I heard from dashboard to be dismantled partially to access wiring for immobiliser.

[condor]

Originally Posted by maddyg

Does it worth to wait to get the spare key from Bangalore before the troubleshooting starts ? .

Yes, get it. Since the problem is not yet correctly diagnosed, the spare key is also a possible solution at this time.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by maddyg

It appears immobilier chip is powered from battery as it need to get detected anywhere inside the cabin, not just near the immobilser antenna (near push button? - manual says its under the storage location)

It probably is. No knowledge on the subject but read up on immobilizers and specifically the one I have since it doesn't need a battery and this Wikipedia link seems to have the answer.

Here's an excerpt :

The microcircuit inside the key is activated by a small electromagnetic field which induces current to flow inside the key body, which in turn broadcasts a unique binary code which is read by the automobile's ECU. When the ECU determines that the coded key is both current and valid, the ECU activates the fuel-injection sequence.

So for folks with the remote engine start feature, the above case won't be valid. This could be the reason why the immobilizer is battery dependent but still a guess.

Hope you get your solution soon.

[maddyg]

Originally Posted by shancz

So for folks with the remote engine start feature, the above case won't be valid. This could be the reason why the immobilizer is battery dependent but still a guess.

Hope you get your solution soon.

Agree. Same thoughts here.

[maddyg]

Originally Posted by maddyg

Finally flatbad came. Pleasantly surprised with SP cars(Tata ASS, Verna) proactive action. They coordinated with RSA and even offered to be with car till the pick up so that i can leave. Later the team including service manager and PR arrived much before truck and gave me company for couple of hours. They even tried to start, but nothing worked this time.

Car is at ASS from yesterday night. Got an update now they were able to start it(without any diagnosis or fix). I can only relate this behaviour to time gap, 6-7 hours after last fail.Another observation is issue appear when car is baked in sun for long time. It's hot here and had to park in open space (within a secure, pest controlled area) for last three weeks. There was also 5 days of inactivity and on 8th day the first incident happened.

Getting the spare key by tomorrow. Instructed ASS before doing any serious dismantling, wait for the spare fob.