Honda Accord VTi vs Honda Accord V6

mclaren1885 · 10th July 2007, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabloo

How does low GC imply rash driving? Could you elaborate.
Regards.

I was referring to the cars on track. Track day's and races. One cannot get to see worse cases of rash driving than this.

Dinesh99 · 10th July 2007, 23:22

Hi mclaren

I know about ECU and I also seen cars stranded in middle of road , in parking lots and at homes of people because the microchip of the engine died. Please note that the ECUs were not remapped or modded.
This is because microchips , no matter, where they are installed, they can fail to function anywhere anytime without warning. For example, cellphones , music systems, camcorders, digital cameras can freeze/hang anytime . In most of the case, you switch them off and turn them on and then they might perform as expected.
But , if the ABS microchip hangs while the car is doing tripple digits, the driver may not have the time or the presence of mind to switch off the engine and turn it back again, so that the brakes start performing as expected.
ABS performs well on on a dry surface, but on a wet surface , loose gravel, sand on road ( conditions found in R J ) , oil spills ( common if there has been an accident in front of you, the car with ABS will take a longer distance to stop. Since a person cannot choose his/her next accident spot, a ABS car may or may not perform favourably in every emergency case.

About Airbags
During a head on collision with a truck, as mentioned by you , in almost all case ( if the the truck is in motion ) the car just goes under the truck and the truck simply runs over the car and crushing it to a height of a feet or so from the ground level. This happens because the height to the front bumper of the truck is higher than height of hood of the car and a loaded truck weighs 40 tonns plus. Now please explain to me, how a funny little air balloon will save the passengers by supporting the 40 tonns weight when the metal shell of the car crushes like a tin foil because it cannot support the 40 tonn weight.

About fancy gadgets
The fancy gadgets I meant heated seats, automatic climate control ( not normal A/C ), parking sensors, chilled glove box, electronically adjusted seat , sat nav ( maybe coming in the new model) etc.
I said I don't want these, but if they are already there I will have no problem with them. It is not hard to get used to pampering. Also if these toys are absent, I don't really care.
Since you were talking about Ariel Atom, maybe a windshield, wipers ,metal top , rear seats, boot , a metal body ( the chassis forms an exoskeleton in case of the Atom ) be a fancy gadget for you but not for me.
Also where did I say , I will do 2 digits with a V6 coupled with a 6-speed manual.
I am not looking for anything " raw n rugged ". An Accord V6 is not "Raw n Rugged" ; a military surplus 4x4 vehicle is a " Raw n Rugged " vehicle for me.
I am not for tearing up the vehicle ( gear box swap ) within hours of buying the vehicle, because it screws up the warrenty, Insurance resale value and whole lot of things.

Rest of your reply is pretty irrelevant , because you are getting confused between track vehicles driven by race drivers on race tracks and normal sedans driven by normal people on public roads.

Hi msdivy

In the your accident case , where a car is hit from behind, "popping balloons" will not make any difference. This is because , in such incident the passenger's head will be banged on the head restrains and NOT the dashboard or b-pillar ( the spots from where main airbags and side air bags deploy ). The "popping balloons " will not help in the safety of the passengers but will show up as a big expense in the repair bill.

Regards

Dinesh

mclaren1885 · 11th July 2007, 00:10

Dinesh, its quite funny you say that you have seen ECU's conk off. Surprisingly I haven't. How about mentioning on which cars and what exactly happened? Maybe you could post on another thread called "ECU's a boon or not".

Till date I haven't heard of any ABS chip malfunctioning either, atleast not in my friends circle or from anyone on TBHP for that matter. Don't know if you have too. But in a car since everything is mechanical/electrical they are prone to failures. Just incase I had a brake failure in a friends car very recently. And it didn't have ABS.

Also, you need to understand that ABS helps you in more ways than just decreasing/increasing your braking distance depending on the surface. It helps in manouvering the car while you are applying the brakes as well. A feature which came in very handy very recently. I am talking from personal experience. Not by some book theory.

Incase you haven't noticed kindly do visit a few threads on the forum. Specially the accident pics thread and also one recently started by Mugen Power about a NHC crash. You can see clearly how helpful seatbelts and airbags (if provided) could have been.

So, Dinesh how extensively have you driven vehicles with ABS and "popping baloons" that you seem to detest them so much?

Vid6639 · 11th July 2007, 00:31

If ABS electronics has a malfunction you will lose ABS and not braking. That is the normal failsafe.

Quote:

ABS performs well on on a dry surface, but on a wet surface , loose gravel, sand on road ( conditions found in R J ) , oil spills ( common if there has been an accident in front of you, the car with ABS will take a longer distance to stop. Since a person cannot choose his/her next accident spot, a ABS car may or may not perform favourably in every emergency case.

Pls. explain this again. this is completely wrong. the distance with ABS will be lesser than without abs on loose tarmac with lesser grip.

Only on good grippy road will the distance with ABS be more than without. But the advantage of having steering while braking with ABS out weighs the slightly longer braking distance.

Shan2nu · 11th July 2007, 01:27

Quote:

Pls. explain this again. this is completely wrong. the distance with ABS will be lesser than without abs on loose tarmac with lesser grip.

Only on good grippy road will the distance with ABS be more than without. But the advantage of having steering while braking with ABS out weighs the slightly longer braking distance.

Actually it's the other way around. ABS shortens braking distance on high traction surfaces.

When you brake on loose soil or gravel, the locked wheel digs into the ground and helps create more resistance. Even in wet conditions, the lack of traction keeps the tyre rolling (increasing braking distances).

ABS is not about reducing braking distances, it's about being in control while you brake.

Shan2nu

vivekiny2k · 11th July 2007, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinesh99

About Airbags
During a head on collision with a truck, as mentioned by you , in almost all case ( if the the truck is in motion ) the car just goes under the truck and the truck simply runs over the car and crushing it to a height of a feet or so from the ground level. This happens because the height to the front bumper of the truck is higher than height of hood of the car and a loaded truck weighs 40 tonns plus. Now please explain to me, how a funny little air balloon will save the passengers by supporting the 40 tonns weight when the metal shell of the

that's why they have crash bars in trucks at a relevant height. unfortunately in india it will take quite some time (and deaths) before these things can be enforced.

a car crashing in a crash bar with ABS, seat belts and balloons is much safer than a car going under a truck, without ABS, belts or balloons.

I fail to understand why you are so against protective technology.

vivekiny2k · 11th July 2007, 01:37

and still if you are not convinced, i think looking at statistics of lives saved by the modern technology (and gadgets) will serve a better purpose than having few more pages of discussions here.

flipsyde · 11th July 2007, 19:00

@dinesh99 - are u telling us that all carb engines are perfect??! and without the ECU ur NOT going to get stranded in the middle of the road??

an uncle of mine in the US would have lost his life if not for ABS. u can go on debating about braking distance and traction and so on.....end of the day it makes sure YOUR in control when it matters the most.

it COCKY when someone comes and say "i'm more MAN than you 'cos i drive a fast car without ABS or traction control or seat belts even..... its just man and machine"

technology has its advantages and disadvantages..... end of the day if its a step in the right direction its well worth it.

P.S - mayb those italians should make the cars and leave the driving bit to the more sensible!

flipsyde · 11th July 2007, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinesh99

The "popping balloons " will not help in the safety of the passengers but will show up as a big expense in the repair bill.

rather spend it on airbags than on my funeral!

vivekiny2k · 12th July 2007, 17:42

I think we went way off topic here.

so dinesh, decided anything yet?

You seem to like I-4, One positive point i can tell about V-6 is when heavily loaded or at highway, it will not feel out of breath, and it may be quieter than the I-4.

in other words, boys toys, it would be I-4. Sedate, luxurious drive, it would be V-6.

set your priorities.

v1p3r · 12th July 2007, 17:44

Why doesn't someone just import the Accord Coupe's manual gearbox?

Dinesh99 · 18th July 2007, 00:03

Hi Everyone

I was out of town , out of state , negotiating property deals with gun-carrying ,trigger happy ,lunatics for a week or so.

@ mclaren - I will PM you the cars which I saw had ECU problem. If I take the names here , a lot of people will get fired off.

@vivek

Quote:

I think we went way off topic here.

Yupp ! Somebody put an ABS on that

Actually it if V6 comes with a manual trans ,then it gonna be a V6 otherwise 2.4 inline i-VTEC Accord.
I can wait a year or so for manual V6 but not forever.

Regards
Dinesh

1100D · 18th July 2007, 01:55

Can anybody buy a used 2.4 M/T and then try and mate a v6 engine on that sourced from Honda or even JDM (we have so many engine swaps on countless OHC's then why not the accord?)

dipen · 18th July 2007, 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1100D

Can anybody buy a used 2.4 M/T and then try and mate a v6 engine on that sourced from Honda or even JDM (we have so many engine swaps on countless OHC's then why not the accord?)

I assume , if the job is done professionally with genuine parts imported with duty, the conversion would take approx 2-2.5 laks. Would anyone wanna spent so much in this ?

1100D · 18th July 2007, 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipen

I assume , if the job is done professionally with genuine parts imported with duty, the conversion would take approx 2-2.5 laks. Would anyone wanna spent so much in this ?

Quite right even say 3 lakhs + the depreciated base car , does it sound bad? You have your very own Accord v6 m/t.

10th July 2007, 23:22	#32
Dinesh99 BANNED Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Noida Posts: 19 Thanked: 0 Times	Hi mclaren I know about ECU and I also seen cars stranded in middle of road , in parking lots and at homes of people because the microchip of the engine died. Please note that the ECUs were not remapped or modded. This is because microchips , no matter, where they are installed, they can fail to function anywhere anytime without warning. For example, cellphones , music systems, camcorders, digital cameras can freeze/hang anytime . In most of the case, you switch them off and turn them on and then they might perform as expected. But , if the ABS microchip hangs while the car is doing tripple digits, the driver may not have the time or the presence of mind to switch off the engine and turn it back again, so that the brakes start performing as expected. ABS performs well on on a dry surface, but on a wet surface , loose gravel, sand on road ( conditions found in R J ) , oil spills ( common if there has been an accident in front of you, the car with ABS will take a longer distance to stop. Since a person cannot choose his/her next accident spot, a ABS car may or may not perform favourably in every emergency case. About Airbags During a head on collision with a truck, as mentioned by you , in almost all case ( if the the truck is in motion ) the car just goes under the truck and the truck simply runs over the car and crushing it to a height of a feet or so from the ground level. This happens because the height to the front bumper of the truck is higher than height of hood of the car and a loaded truck weighs 40 tonns plus. Now please explain to me, how a funny little air balloon will save the passengers by supporting the 40 tonns weight when the metal shell of the car crushes like a tin foil because it cannot support the 40 tonn weight. About fancy gadgets The fancy gadgets I meant heated seats, automatic climate control ( not normal A/C ), parking sensors, chilled glove box, electronically adjusted seat , sat nav ( maybe coming in the new model) etc. I said I don't want these, but if they are already there I will have no problem with them. It is not hard to get used to pampering. Also if these toys are absent, I don't really care. Since you were talking about Ariel Atom, maybe a windshield, wipers ,metal top , rear seats, boot , a metal body ( the chassis forms an exoskeleton in case of the Atom ) be a fancy gadget for you but not for me. Also where did I say , I will do 2 digits with a V6 coupled with a 6-speed manual. I am not looking for anything " raw n rugged ". An Accord V6 is not "Raw n Rugged" ; a military surplus 4x4 vehicle is a " Raw n Rugged " vehicle for me. I am not for tearing up the vehicle ( gear box swap ) within hours of buying the vehicle, because it screws up the warrenty, Insurance resale value and whole lot of things. Rest of your reply is pretty irrelevant , because you are getting confused between track vehicles driven by race drivers on race tracks and normal sedans driven by normal people on public roads. Hi msdivy In the your accident case , where a car is hit from behind, "popping balloons" will not make any difference. This is because , in such incident the passenger's head will be banged on the head restrains and NOT the dashboard or b-pillar ( the spots from where main airbags and side air bags deploy ). The "popping balloons " will not help in the safety of the passengers but will show up as a big expense in the repair bill. Regards Dinesh
	() Thanks

11th July 2007, 00:10	#33
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	Dinesh, its quite funny you say that you have seen ECU's conk off. Surprisingly I haven't. How about mentioning on which cars and what exactly happened? Maybe you could post on another thread called "ECU's a boon or not". Till date I haven't heard of any ABS chip malfunctioning either, atleast not in my friends circle or from anyone on TBHP for that matter. Don't know if you have too. But in a car since everything is mechanical/electrical they are prone to failures. Just incase I had a brake failure in a friends car very recently. And it didn't have ABS. Also, you need to understand that ABS helps you in more ways than just decreasing/increasing your braking distance depending on the surface. It helps in manouvering the car while you are applying the brakes as well. A feature which came in very handy very recently. I am talking from personal experience. Not by some book theory. Incase you haven't noticed kindly do visit a few threads on the forum. Specially the accident pics thread and also one recently started by Mugen Power about a NHC crash. You can see clearly how helpful seatbelts and airbags (if provided) could have been. So, Dinesh how extensively have you driven vehicles with ABS and "popping baloons" that you seem to detest them so much?
	() Thanks

11th July 2007, 01:37	#37
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	and still if you are not convinced, i think looking at statistics of lives saved by the modern technology (and gadgets) will serve a better purpose than having few more pages of discussions here.
	() Thanks

11th July 2007, 19:00	#38
flipsyde BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 644 Thanked: 84 Times	@dinesh99 - are u telling us that all carb engines are perfect??! and without the ECU ur NOT going to get stranded in the middle of the road?? an uncle of mine in the US would have lost his life if not for ABS. u can go on debating about braking distance and traction and so on.....end of the day it makes sure YOUR in control when it matters the most. it COCKY when someone comes and say "i'm more MAN than you 'cos i drive a fast car without ABS or traction control or seat belts even..... its just man and machine" technology has its advantages and disadvantages..... end of the day if its a step in the right direction its well worth it. P.S - mayb those italians should make the cars and leave the driving bit to the more sensible!
	() Thanks

12th July 2007, 17:42	#40
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	I think we went way off topic here. so dinesh, decided anything yet? You seem to like I-4, One positive point i can tell about V-6 is when heavily loaded or at highway, it will not feel out of breath, and it may be quieter than the I-4. in other words, boys toys, it would be I-4. Sedate, luxurious drive, it would be V-6. set your priorities.
	() Thanks

12th July 2007, 17:44	#41
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Why doesn't someone just import the Accord Coupe's manual gearbox?
	() Thanks

18th July 2007, 01:55	#43
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	Can anybody buy a used 2.4 M/T and then try and mate a v6 engine on that sourced from Honda or even JDM (we have so many engine swaps on countless OHC's then why not the accord?)
	() Thanks