Issue while engaging 3rd gear

kartikh · 7th November 2022, 23:48

Hello,

This would be my first post on Team Bhp.

I need some advice on intermittent transmission related issues I have been facing with my 2013 Maruti Suzuki Swift Dzire Petrol (Zxi model) which has completed 125000 KMs.

Very recently I serviced my car at MASS Pune (Hinjawadi Phase 2) and changed the clutch plate, pressure plate, fly wheel and the release bearing.

While driving home from the service station (which is around 13 KMs distance), I did not face any issues while changing the gears.

I then did a Pune-Kolhapur trip with my car and after about 150 kms (on the highway) started facing issues while changing to third gear (from second gear or sometimes from fourth gear).

The issue I am encountering is, the third gear does engage properly on some occasions - its as if there is some kind of a resistance which does not allow me to engage the gear lever fully to third gear position. I can engage it but this will take some more force - which does not feel natural for this car. At other times, there is no issue while engaing third gear at all.

Also, if the third gear is not fully engaged and I let go off the clutch, there is some kind of a grinding noise from the transmission. This never happened to the car before.

Due to this I skipped engaging the third gear on the highway- I started engaging fourth gear (directly from second gear at around 45-50 kmph) and engaged the second gear (from fourth gear at around 30-35 kmph).

On one ocassion, the same thing happened while changing from third to second (the second gear could not be engaged). However, I am not able to reproduce this issue again.

Also, this issue does not occur when the car is stationary (and turned off).

On returning to Pune, I demonstrated this behavior to the technician who had worked on the transmission overhaul. He did acknowledge that there is some issue while engaging third gear - but since we were in city limits, the issue could not be consistently reproduced.

The technician lubricated the gear shift mechanism from inside the cabin (by opening the gear shift bellow). He also applied some spray (which I presume is WD-40) by opening the hood ( I couldnt see where exactly he applied it since I was not allowed inside the servicing bay).

After a test drive, the issue reduced to some extend. The service advisor and the technician said that the gear shift should be smooth in a couple more KMs of driving - and that the new parts need to "set". They also said that transmission issues usually occur in diesel Swift's/Swift Dzire and not in Petrol Swift/Swift Dzire - and they are mostly related to Synchronizer Ring getting worn out.

I took their word and did a Pune-Lonvala trip and encountered the issue only once in the entire journey (to and fro journey of around 100 kms).

However, today while driving the car in the city, I started facing the issue once again and a bit more consistently.

I would be taking the car back to MASS but I need help in understanding what could be the issue ?

I tried searching Team Bhp archives, and apart from the gear lever bush related issue and Synchronizer Ring related issue (For a particular 2008 Swift Diesel, could not find anything else).

Any help would in identifying the issue would be highly appreciated!

Thanks,
Kartik

Mr.Boss · 8th November 2022, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartikh

They also said that transmission issues usually occur in diesel Swift's/Swift Dzire
..
they are mostly related to Synchronizer Ring getting worn out.
...
I tried searching Team Bhp archives, and apart from the gear lever bush related issue and Synchronizer Ring related issue (For a particular 2008 Swift Diesel, could not find anything else).

Known issue in diesel powertrain, already discussed here https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...r-failure.html (Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure)

I'm facing same issue in my Ritz VDi with 1.5L+ on odo, especially when down shifting from 3rd to 2nd.

humyum · 8th November 2022, 14:17

Maybe the clutch cable is not adjusted properly and there is some amount of clutch which is always engaged while changing gears.

It could also be an adjustment issue with the gear lever linkages when they meet the transmission. There is a boot on top of where the linkages meet the transmission, see if its worn out.

dhanushs · 8th November 2022, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartikh

...
I tried searching Team Bhp archives, and apart from the gear lever bush related issue and Synchronizer Ring related issue (For a particular 2008 Swift Diesel, could not find anything else).
..

Since you are facing issues in only one gear the above mentioned could be pretty much be the reason. I would lean more against Gear Linkages, than Synchronizers.

ObsessedByFIAT · 10th November 2022, 11:11

Maruti cars have a known issues with Synchronizer rings. They tend to go bad.
My elder brothers Ertiga had the same issue with engaging first gear. His car is also from 2013 batch of cars.
We ended up using synchronizer rings of the Ertiga refresh, which apparently had this issue sorted.

So far, brother has driven around 30k km post the synchronizer ring change and no issues noticed so far.

kartikh · 10th November 2022, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT

Maruti cars have a known issues with Synchronizer rings. They tend to go bad.
My elder brothers Ertiga had the same issue with engaging first gear. His car is also from 2013 batch of cars.
We ended up using synchronizer rings of the Ertiga refresh, which apparently had this issue sorted.

So far, brother has driven around 30k km post the synchronizer ring change and no issues noticed so far.

Thanks for your reply, I wanted to know whether your brother has a diesel Ertiga or a petrol one. I spoke to MASS SA, and he told me that petrol engines very rarely have an issue with gear synchronizers getting worn out.

On a different note, the SA also told me that we can try to replace the entire gear assembly with that of another car and see if that helps - I am not sure if this is a good idea.

Now I am in a dilemma so as to what to do, I dont want them to try something such as switch the entire gear assembly which might cause some other issues.

Just to recap - the issue I am facing is third gear shift feels "crunchy" it is not smooth shifting as it used to be and I fear that if I ignore this issue, it might ruin the transmission in the long run (I intend to use the car for atleast 4 more years or atleast till 2 Lakh Kms).

Any suggestions anyone ?

Thanks,
Kartik

ObsessedByFIAT · 11th November 2022, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartikh

Thanks for your reply, I wanted to know whether your brother has a diesel Ertiga or a petrol one. I spoke to MASS SA, and he told me that petrol engines very rarely have an issue with gear synchronizers getting worn out.

Just to recap - the issue I am facing is third gear shift feels "crunchy" it is not smooth shifting as it used to be and I fear that if I ignore this issue, it might ruin the transmission in the long run (I intend to use the car for atleast 4 more years or atleast till 2 Lakh Kms).

Any suggestions anyone ?

Thanks,
Kartik

My bad, should have mentioned my brother has a diesel Ertiga.

I am quite surprised that the service center of the largest car manufacturer has no clue as to what could be causing the issue! I am sure there would be a few more similar issues they might have seen earlier.

The work of synchronizer ring is to seamlessly shift the gear without causing a jerk. When these rings go bad, the first symptom is difficulty in changing gears.

Is it possible for you to get a second opinion from an independent garage or service station?

kartikh · 11th November 2022, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT

Is it possible for you to get a second opinion from an independent garage or service station?

Thanks for your reply, I will take a second opinion. I never had any issues with this particular MASS.

Its difficult to find competent technicians who are willing to work on transmission issues.

Can anybody suggest good MASS service station in Pune - preferably those who have done work on transmissions on their car ?

ObsessedByFIAT · 11th November 2022, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartikh

Its difficult to find competent technicians who are willing to work on transmission issues.

Can anybody suggest good MASS service station in Pune - preferably those who have done work on transmissions on their car ?

I just realised that you are based out of Pune! In PMC or PCMC?

If you are interested, I can take you to the FNG where my brother got his Ertiga's work done. It's in Moshi area.

kartikh · 11th November 2022, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT

I just realised that you are based out of Pune! In PMC or PCMC?

If you are interested, I can take you to the FNG where my brother got his Ertiga's work done. It's in Moshi area.

Sure thanks , that would be nice. I would be out of town for the next 2 weeks. We can connect once I am back in Pune.

Cheers!

kartikh · 28th November 2022, 15:57

Update. On returning to Pune, I took the car to another MASS and they identified it an issue with the gear lever linkages.

The gear lever now slots just fine. I took it on the highway for a test ride and drove it in the city too - did not face any issues.

Thank you all for your inputs!

Mods - This thread can now be closed.

7th November 2022, 23:48	#1
kartikh Newbie Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Pune Posts: 8 Thanked: 20 Times	Issue while engaging 3rd gear Hello, This would be my first post on Team Bhp. I need some advice on intermittent transmission related issues I have been facing with my 2013 Maruti Suzuki Swift Dzire Petrol (Zxi model) which has completed 125000 KMs. Very recently I serviced my car at MASS Pune (Hinjawadi Phase 2) and changed the clutch plate, pressure plate, fly wheel and the release bearing. While driving home from the service station (which is around 13 KMs distance), I did not face any issues while changing the gears. I then did a Pune-Kolhapur trip with my car and after about 150 kms (on the highway) started facing issues while changing to third gear (from second gear or sometimes from fourth gear). The issue I am encountering is, the third gear does engage properly on some occasions - its as if there is some kind of a resistance which does not allow me to engage the gear lever fully to third gear position. I can engage it but this will take some more force - which does not feel natural for this car. At other times, there is no issue while engaing third gear at all. Also, if the third gear is not fully engaged and I let go off the clutch, there is some kind of a grinding noise from the transmission. This never happened to the car before. Due to this I skipped engaging the third gear on the highway- I started engaging fourth gear (directly from second gear at around 45-50 kmph) and engaged the second gear (from fourth gear at around 30-35 kmph). On one ocassion, the same thing happened while changing from third to second (the second gear could not be engaged). However, I am not able to reproduce this issue again. Also, this issue does not occur when the car is stationary (and turned off). On returning to Pune, I demonstrated this behavior to the technician who had worked on the transmission overhaul. He did acknowledge that there is some issue while engaging third gear - but since we were in city limits, the issue could not be consistently reproduced. The technician lubricated the gear shift mechanism from inside the cabin (by opening the gear shift bellow). He also applied some spray (which I presume is WD-40) by opening the hood ( I couldnt see where exactly he applied it since I was not allowed inside the servicing bay). After a test drive, the issue reduced to some extend. The service advisor and the technician said that the gear shift should be smooth in a couple more KMs of driving - and that the new parts need to "set". They also said that transmission issues usually occur in diesel Swift's/Swift Dzire and not in Petrol Swift/Swift Dzire - and they are mostly related to Synchronizer Ring getting worn out. I took their word and did a Pune-Lonvala trip and encountered the issue only once in the entire journey (to and fro journey of around 100 kms). However, today while driving the car in the city, I started facing the issue once again and a bit more consistently. I would be taking the car back to MASS but I need help in understanding what could be the issue ? I tried searching Team Bhp archives, and apart from the gear lever bush related issue and Synchronizer Ring related issue (For a particular 2008 Swift Diesel, could not find anything else). Any help would in identifying the issue would be highly appreciated! Thanks, Kartik
	(4) Thanks

8th November 2022, 14:17	#3
humyum Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,751 Thanked: 5,425 Times	re: Issue while engaging 3rd gear Maybe the clutch cable is not adjusted properly and there is some amount of clutch which is always engaged while changing gears. It could also be an adjustment issue with the gear lever linkages when they meet the transmission. There is a boot on top of where the linkages meet the transmission, see if its worn out.
	(2) Thanks

10th November 2022, 11:11	#5
ObsessedByFIAT BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: - Posts: 955 Thanked: 1,105 Times	Re: Issue while engaging 3rd gear Maruti cars have a known issues with Synchronizer rings. They tend to go bad. My elder brothers Ertiga had the same issue with engaging first gear. His car is also from 2013 batch of cars. We ended up using synchronizer rings of the Ertiga refresh, which apparently had this issue sorted. So far, brother has driven around 30k km post the synchronizer ring change and no issues noticed so far.
	(1) Thanks

28th November 2022, 15:57	#11
kartikh Newbie Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Pune Posts: 8 Thanked: 20 Times	Re: Issue while engaging 3rd gear Update. On returning to Pune, I took the car to another MASS and they identified it an issue with the gear lever linkages. The gear lever now slots just fine. I took it on the highway for a test ride and drove it in the city too - did not face any issues. Thank you all for your inputs! Mods - This thread can now be closed.
	(5) Thanks