Car starting problem after weekend of music

jassi · 10th July 2007, 13:19

Hi Gurus,

I have a strange starter problem - at times when I try to start the car, there is just a click sound and the car doesn't start. The reason why I am posting it here is because I think it is related to my ICE.
I have noticed when I do not play music for sometime, the car starts normally, but when I play loads of music, like on the weekends I notice the problem monday morning (click sound on turning key and car wont start). Then I remove the HU as it is drawing some power, release brakes so that brake light dont draw power and also shut blower, try 2-3 times and car starts. Hyundai guys said this could be dirt in starter, but they found nothing in paid service

I have a santro xing erlx (1.5 yrs old). I have the following ICE
1) sony cdx-gt350s (Sony India - like no other) with front aux in (which is where I connect my portable video player archos 604 30gb ARCHOS )
2) sony front speakers (i think 10cm small ones)
3) sony 4 way rear 6X9 speakers XS-GT6948 (specs Sony India - like no other )
4) sony amp XM-554ZR driving the rear speakers and sub (specs Sony India - like no other )
5) 10" fusion sub tube

Please help

MODS - please move this to an appropriate thread/section if necessary - I couldnt find anything on starter problems with relation to ICE

esteem_lover · 10th July 2007, 13:30

Do you operate your system with the engine on or off ?

If the engine is off & you play your system for long, the battery could have been drained. Avoid this. Keep the engine running when you have the ICE on.

jassi · 10th July 2007, 13:34

Hey esteem_lover - the sound system is never on without the engine running. I always listen to music when the car is moving - if the car is parked, then I am not in the car

esteem_lover · 10th July 2007, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jassi

Hey esteem_lover - the sound system is never on without the engine running. I always listen to music when the car is moving - if the car is parked, then I am not in the car

In that case, i dont see any connection between your ICE & your starting troubles, unless your alternator is giving up fast.

P.S. people have strange ways of partying. That was why the question of the engine running or not.

panky12345 · 10th July 2007, 13:42

jassi just do 2 things and u'll be OK:

1. Go to any battery walah and get the cells checked (i guess called gravity); in case you find a cell dead/like go in for a new battery. If the battery is perfect, top it up with battery water (no dont use the regular tap water please!) and then check if the problem still persists.

2. In case the problem still persists, this might be due to a faulty SELF. get the SELF serviced in front of you from a reliable mechanic. dont go to A.S.S. for these, they charge you hefty but dont do anything.

jassi · 10th July 2007, 13:43

well I couldn't find a link either - but then last 2 months I was not playing music in my car and everything was fine, and then this weekend I played some hip hop and there it was back. I can reproduce this problem with a day of rock/hiphop music anytime I want, and there are times when I leave the car parked for 15 days to a month when travelling and it starts just perfect when I get back.
Is the ICE drawing too much from the battery - mainly the sub and amp which I got fixed later (not fitted by advaith hyundai guys)

-j

esteem_lover · 10th July 2007, 13:49

I have the same amp & use it quite extensively. I haven't faced any problems with that. Check the wiring for the amp & make sure it is not exposed & touching the body. Now, i will let the real gurus help you.

jassi · 10th July 2007, 14:13

Thanks for the advice panky - will find a battery walah soon - maybe someone in bangalore can point me to a good battery wala near mg road area (which is where my office is - so easier to jump out during work hours

)

esteem_lover - will check the wiring today itself.

BTW panky whats SELF and what do i need to get checked in the SELF

esteem_lover · 10th July 2007, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jassi

BTW panky whats SELF and what do i need to get checked in the SELF

SELF means you. you need to have your head examined is what panky is suggesting.

SELF = self starter = starter assembly = starter motor, rotor pitter patteretc.

jassi · 10th July 2007, 14:24

yeah i definitely need to get mySELF checked !!

Hyundai 1st paid service - they did check starter (i don't know what all), but I think I will go to them again and get SELF checked again

if the battery & wiring checks out to be fine.

panky12345 · 10th July 2007, 15:49

correct E_L, sorry for my limited knowledge, but here in Delhi, people refer the part as "SELF" or "SELLEF".

Jaggu · 10th July 2007, 19:12

check battery, if its healthy then check the grounding of the battery and then the wiring. if these are also fine check starter assembly.

DerAlte · 10th July 2007, 20:21

Possiblities:
1. The last guy who did anything with the wiring has messed up the wiring somewhere. But this is unlikely, since the car IS starting after a few tries

2. The battery terminal is oxidized / loose. The vibrations from your sub are causing intermittence which is preventing the starter from drawing enough current to be able to turn the motor. Improves when a couple of clicks and clacks of the contactor shakes some contact

3. Most likely - faulty relay/contactor/its terminal wiring affected by the sub vibrations / too much load drawn by your system (amp connected to the wrong place)

Pesky problem - patient investigation needed. Try this empirical method yourself:
1. Play the music really loud for sometime, till you are no longer able to start the car (wouldn't require that long if the problem is anything but the battery). If you don't get a problem in the first 30 minutes, the culprit is quite likely the battery
2. Open the bonnet and ask someone to sit in the car and try starting on your command
3. Start shaking the wires one by one, starting with the battery negative cable - try starting after every shake. Then the positive cable, and so on
4. The one shake that allows the car to start is the culprit. Mark that cable and then tell the mechanic to find out what the problem is

jassi · 10th July 2007, 22:40

ok guys i did the following test, with engine stopped and the key in acc position, put off blower and inside light
Played some loud rock (metallica, cradle of filth, linkin park, etc) with lotsa bass, so that amp n sub are pushed a lot (the neighbours seemed a bit angry

)

1) at 15 mins the car started fine
2) at 25 mins the car started ok
3) at 45 mins the car started fine

If the battery was weak shouldn't it have died in 45 mins!!

Checked the battery terminals, seems fine to me, plus the car just got serviced 2 weeks back so they couldn't have missed a worn out battery terminal and the service guys also said they didnt face any probs with cold start.
Will confirm if morrow morning there is that same click click sound when I turn the key followed by car not starting. Till date hyundai hasn't found the problemo, lets see if we can.

Jaggu · 10th July 2007, 22:59

jassi enough experimenting yourself, i feel for a change your dealer might be right and it can be a starter solenoid issue. to be doubly sure just goto next exide or anyother battery showroom you see and ask them to give a health update of your battery and charging.

10th July 2007, 13:19	#1
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	Car starting problem after weekend of music Hi Gurus, I have a strange starter problem - at times when I try to start the car, there is just a click sound and the car doesn't start. The reason why I am posting it here is because I think it is related to my ICE. I have noticed when I do not play music for sometime, the car starts normally, but when I play loads of music, like on the weekends I notice the problem monday morning (click sound on turning key and car wont start). Then I remove the HU as it is drawing some power, release brakes so that brake light dont draw power and also shut blower, try 2-3 times and car starts. Hyundai guys said this could be dirt in starter, but they found nothing in paid service I have a santro xing erlx (1.5 yrs old). I have the following ICE 1) sony cdx-gt350s (Sony India - like no other) with front aux in (which is where I connect my portable video player archos 604 30gb ARCHOS ) 2) sony front speakers (i think 10cm small ones) 3) sony 4 way rear 6X9 speakers XS-GT6948 (specs Sony India - like no other ) 4) sony amp XM-554ZR driving the rear speakers and sub (specs Sony India - like no other ) 5) 10" fusion sub tube Please help MODS - please move this to an appropriate thread/section if necessary - I couldnt find anything on starter problems with relation to ICE Last edited by jassi : 10th July 2007 at 13:22.
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 13:30	#2
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	Do you operate your system with the engine on or off ? If the engine is off & you play your system for long, the battery could have been drained. Avoid this. Keep the engine running when you have the ICE on. Last edited by esteem_lover : 10th July 2007 at 13:31.
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 13:34	#3
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	Hey esteem_lover - the sound system is never on without the engine running. I always listen to music when the car is moving - if the car is parked, then I am not in the car
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 13:42	#5
panky12345 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,697 Thanked: 171 Times	jassi just do 2 things and u'll be OK: 1. Go to any battery walah and get the cells checked (i guess called gravity); in case you find a cell dead/like go in for a new battery. If the battery is perfect, top it up with battery water (no dont use the regular tap water please!) and then check if the problem still persists. 2. In case the problem still persists, this might be due to a faulty SELF. get the SELF serviced in front of you from a reliable mechanic. dont go to A.S.S. for these, they charge you hefty but dont do anything. Last edited by panky12345 : 10th July 2007 at 13:43.
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 13:43	#6
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	well I couldn't find a link either - but then last 2 months I was not playing music in my car and everything was fine, and then this weekend I played some hip hop and there it was back. I can reproduce this problem with a day of rock/hiphop music anytime I want, and there are times when I leave the car parked for 15 days to a month when travelling and it starts just perfect when I get back. Is the ICE drawing too much from the battery - mainly the sub and amp which I got fixed later (not fitted by advaith hyundai guys) -j
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 13:49	#7
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	I have the same amp & use it quite extensively. I haven't faced any problems with that. Check the wiring for the amp & make sure it is not exposed & touching the body. Now, i will let the real gurus help you.
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 14:13	#8
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	Thanks for the advice panky - will find a battery walah soon - maybe someone in bangalore can point me to a good battery wala near mg road area (which is where my office is - so easier to jump out during work hours ) esteem_lover - will check the wiring today itself. BTW panky whats SELF and what do i need to get checked in the SELF
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 14:24	#10
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	yeah i definitely need to get mySELF checked !! Hyundai 1st paid service - they did check starter (i don't know what all), but I think I will go to them again and get SELF checked again if the battery & wiring checks out to be fine.
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 15:49	#11
panky12345 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,697 Thanked: 171 Times	correct E_L, sorry for my limited knowledge, but here in Delhi, people refer the part as "SELF" or "SELLEF".
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 19:12	#12
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,212 Thanked: 15,892 Times	check battery, if its healthy then check the grounding of the battery and then the wiring. if these are also fine check starter assembly.
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 20:21	#13
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	Possiblities: 1. The last guy who did anything with the wiring has messed up the wiring somewhere. But this is unlikely, since the car IS starting after a few tries 2. The battery terminal is oxidized / loose. The vibrations from your sub are causing intermittence which is preventing the starter from drawing enough current to be able to turn the motor. Improves when a couple of clicks and clacks of the contactor shakes some contact 3. Most likely - faulty relay/contactor/its terminal wiring affected by the sub vibrations / too much load drawn by your system (amp connected to the wrong place) Pesky problem - patient investigation needed. Try this empirical method yourself: 1. Play the music really loud for sometime, till you are no longer able to start the car (wouldn't require that long if the problem is anything but the battery). If you don't get a problem in the first 30 minutes, the culprit is quite likely the battery 2. Open the bonnet and ask someone to sit in the car and try starting on your command 3. Start shaking the wires one by one, starting with the battery negative cable - try starting after every shake. Then the positive cable, and so on 4. The one shake that allows the car to start is the culprit. Mark that cable and then tell the mechanic to find out what the problem is
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 22:40	#14
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	ok guys i did the following test, with engine stopped and the key in acc position, put off blower and inside light Played some loud rock (metallica, cradle of filth, linkin park, etc) with lotsa bass, so that amp n sub are pushed a lot (the neighbours seemed a bit angry ) 1) at 15 mins the car started fine 2) at 25 mins the car started ok 3) at 45 mins the car started fine If the battery was weak shouldn't it have died in 45 mins!! Checked the battery terminals, seems fine to me, plus the car just got serviced 2 weeks back so they couldn't have missed a worn out battery terminal and the service guys also said they didnt face any probs with cold start. Will confirm if morrow morning there is that same click click sound when I turn the key followed by car not starting. Till date hyundai hasn't found the problemo, lets see if we can.
	() Thanks

10th July 2007, 22:59	#15
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,212 Thanked: 15,892 Times	jassi enough experimenting yourself, i feel for a change your dealer might be right and it can be a starter solenoid issue. to be doubly sure just goto next exide or anyother battery showroom you see and ask them to give a health update of your battery and charging.
	() Thanks