Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured

ryzen13 · 30th May 2023, 14:11

Thanks for the replies everyone. Here are some additional images :

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0006.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0007.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0008.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0009.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0010.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0011.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0012.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0013.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0014.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0015.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0016.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0017.jpg

Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured-img20230527wa0018.jpg

Honda is still adamant that the issue happened due to external impact and are asking my friend to claim Insurance.

Kosfactor · 30th May 2023, 14:39

Everything in the striking range of a broken connecting rod is shattered, how this can be classified as an external impact can only be explained by Honda.

sagarpadaki · 30th May 2023, 15:32

That is some severe damage. If you intend to go for insurance, go for the full short block. Do not go for engine rebuild with new block and old piston and crank. You never know the extent of damage the other pistons and crank would have sustained.

ryzen13 · 31st May 2023, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Everything in the striking range of a broken connecting rod is shattered, how this can be classified as an external impact can only be explained by Honda.

I see similar patterns with the 1.5 Ivtec engines / gearboxes. The OG City never had any such issues.

Auto_guy_101 · 1st June 2023, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryzen13

I see similar patterns with the 1.5 Ivtec engines / gearboxes. The OG City never had any such issues.

This is interesting. My understanding was that the 1.5 ivtec was a rev happy engine and Honda is generally reliable. As someone eyeing the upcoming Elevate which will share this engine, should I be worried?

Jaggu · 1st June 2023, 12:37

Woah that is a total lower engine blow up! Why did they say overheating, doesn't it looks like a mechanical failure of internals. How is the oil pump? Any idea if that failed? Any pictures from later stages of dismantling?

Varun7774 · 2nd June 2023, 10:36

Post it in Twitter and tag Honda

Turrrb0 · 6th June 2023, 17:23

Connecting rod failure. Looking at the pictures it looks like oil starvation. Puzzling that it failed without warning.

sasmit · 7th June 2023, 17:44

This looks like a typical con rod failure due to lack of lubrication or seizing due to overheating.
Con rod has seized in the top gudgeon pin and consequentially cracked the block. The "Loud bang" you mention is from the con rod hitting the block and the shattering. The weakest part being the sump cracks first. The block may also have hairline cracks upon closer inspection.
Of course no "outside" hit or rock caused it. This will only happen with low engine oil levels or an hot running engine due to low coolant, clogged radiator and what not. Most probably happened due to overheating , as gudgeon pin seizure will be the first point of failure and scouring of the sleeves.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

viXit · 7th June 2023, 21:32

Have dealt with a sump strike and total oil loss on my I-Vtec. This is clearly not one.

A few flaws with Honda cars, after owning multiple over the years:

No temp guage on any of the modern Honda cars, and I also encountered one second gen city with an overheated engine that didn't show an overheat light. It had full coolant loss due to a leak and wasn't starting. I'm sure the OP's car didn't overheat, but even if it did, there would be no early warning. Something a gauge could provide. AC and all can be easily missed on cold days.
Even if there was an external hit, turning off the engine immediately can be fatal. The steering will lock up on push button cars, as pressing the off button turns everything off and locks steering even with the slightest of steering inputs. Tried it.

On a car with a conventional key barrel to start, we can turn just the engine off and keep the steering lock disengaged, not possible on Hondas. I have Hondas with both types. Keys and push button.

This is a very simple case. Manufacturing defects and product issues happen even with Toyota and Lexus. Honda is not immune. Something being flung up from the road can happen if the damage is behind a moving part like tyre. There is nothing in front of the oil pan. And the delicate plastic pan protection is intact. I am extremely familiar with the design of the guard. It will disintegrate at the slightest of impact, no matter how blunt. It's quite a flimsy material. And there is no chance of anything entering between the guard and adjoining parts, it's a sealed area, no gaps.

sasmit · 8th June 2023, 00:18

Exactly similar failure on a s2000 engine.
Skip to 20 mins

https://youtu.be/9hxw5eyK2tA

30th May 2023, 14:11	#31
ryzen13 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Chennai Posts: 7 Thanked: 31 Times	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured Thanks for the replies everyone. Here are some additional images : Honda is still adamant that the issue happened due to external impact and are asking my friend to claim Insurance.
	(2) Thanks

30th May 2023, 14:39	#32
Kosfactor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: COK\BLR\MYS Posts: 3,598 Thanked: 10,176 Times	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured Everything in the striking range of a broken connecting rod is shattered, how this can be classified as an external impact can only be explained by Honda. Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 30th May 2023 at 14:56. Reason: a word
	(6) Thanks

30th May 2023, 15:32	#33
sagarpadaki Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,211 Thanked: 5,863 Times	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured That is some severe damage. If you intend to go for insurance, go for the full short block. Do not go for engine rebuild with new block and old piston and crank. You never know the extent of damage the other pistons and crank would have sustained. Last edited by sagarpadaki : 30th May 2023 at 15:37.
	(3) Thanks

1st June 2023, 12:37	#36
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,212 Thanked: 15,892 Times	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured Woah that is a total lower engine blow up! Why did they say overheating, doesn't it looks like a mechanical failure of internals. How is the oil pump? Any idea if that failed? Any pictures from later stages of dismantling?
	(1) Thanks

2nd June 2023, 10:36	#37
Varun7774 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 24 Thanked: 17 Times	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured Post it in Twitter and tag Honda
	(1) Thanks

6th June 2023, 17:23	#38
Turrrb0 BHPian Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Chennai Posts: 420 Thanked: 658 Times	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured Connecting rod failure. Looking at the pictures it looks like oil starvation. Puzzling that it failed without warning. Last edited by Turrrb0 : 6th June 2023 at 17:36.
	() Thanks

7th June 2023, 17:44	#39
sasmit Newbie Join Date: May 2022 Location: Bhubaneswar Posts: 24 Thanked: 39 Times	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured This looks like a typical con rod failure due to lack of lubrication or seizing due to overheating. Con rod has seized in the top gudgeon pin and consequentially cracked the block. The "Loud bang" you mention is from the con rod hitting the block and the shattering. The weakest part being the sump cracks first. The block may also have hairline cracks upon closer inspection. Of course no "outside" hit or rock caused it. This will only happen with low engine oil levels or an hot running engine due to low coolant, clogged radiator and what not. Most probably happened due to overheating , as gudgeon pin seizure will be the first point of failure and scouring of the sleeves. Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers. Last edited by sasmit : 7th June 2023 at 17:49.
	(1) Thanks

7th June 2023, 21:32	#40
viXit BHPian Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Hyd Posts: 804 Thanked: 2,876 Times View My Garage	Re: Honda City engine failure @ 67,000 km, sump ruptured Have dealt with a sump strike and total oil loss on my I-Vtec. This is clearly not one. A few flaws with Honda cars, after owning multiple over the years: No temp guage on any of the modern Honda cars, and I also encountered one second gen city with an overheated engine that didn't show an overheat light. It had full coolant loss due to a leak and wasn't starting. I'm sure the OP's car didn't overheat, but even if it did, there would be no early warning. Something a gauge could provide. AC and all can be easily missed on cold days. Even if there was an external hit, turning off the engine immediately can be fatal. The steering will lock up on push button cars, as pressing the off button turns everything off and locks steering even with the slightest of steering inputs. Tried it. On a car with a conventional key barrel to start, we can turn just the engine off and keep the steering lock disengaged, not possible on Hondas. I have Hondas with both types. Keys and push button. This is a very simple case. Manufacturing defects and product issues happen even with Toyota and Lexus. Honda is not immune. Something being flung up from the road can happen if the damage is behind a moving part like tyre. There is nothing in front of the oil pan. And the delicate plastic pan protection is intact. I am extremely familiar with the design of the guard. It will disintegrate at the slightest of impact, no matter how blunt. It's quite a flimsy material. And there is no chance of anything entering between the guard and adjoining parts, it's a sealed area, no gaps.
	(4) Thanks