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Old 16th September 2023, 21:27   #61
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

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Originally Posted by abhi162 View Post
Strange but true I actually thought that the person who posted about such issue in Patna was the OP of this post but then I saw it's in Dehradun.
Here is a link https://twitter.com/singhkushagra22/...f5y8iV1Wg&s=19 that I came across upon the search for similar complaint of this customer of same version I believe! To me it looks like problem is bigger and may lead to a batch of defective windshields! Fit case for a recall as it can pose serious safety hazard.
Thanks for the twitter link! The Patna case perfectly matches with my experience! 'Power is the windshield' as per the Patna gentleman is the case here in these cars. Full replacement of the windshield seems to be the only viable solution to avoid any potential accidents. I'm actually dreading to take delivery of the new car tomorrow i.e. Sunday 17.09.23 !
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Old 16th September 2023, 23:43   #62
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

This observation is there in my X1 original windshield from BMW as well but it does not bother me as it is not in my line of sight. All windshields have a bit of imperfection some way or other. Unfortunately in this case it's directly in the line of sight for the OP due to his body size. Which is probably why others have not noticed it.
Almost guaranteed that all windshields for the same model will present the same problem for the OP. Only solution might be to go with a different vendor or replace the windshield with a third party make which would shift the problem elsewhere less irritating. But aftermarket windshields tend to have this problem much more than OEMs. Or go for a higher or lower trim with a different type of windshield. Or import a windshield. It may be worth waiting a few months to see if Kia has gone with a new vendor and then get it replaced. Or maybe try to adjust the seat position so that the distortion goes out of the line of sight.

Last edited by alphahere : 16th September 2023 at 23:44.
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Old 17th September 2023, 00:37   #63
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

A very interesting case indeed, only time will tell how widespread this problem is. For the time being, mods please add a "check windshield for distortions" pointer to the team-bhp PDI checklist.
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Old 17th September 2023, 01:27   #64
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

I noticed similar distortion in my neighbors Hyundai I20 which is fairly new. The bottom 3 inches had an almost invisible crease line and distorted image when viewed through it.
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Old 17th September 2023, 05:27   #65
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

I am quite happy to report that all the 3 Seltos' in my family, don't have this issue, the trims are GTX+ Diesel AT, X-Line Turbo Petrol DCT, and a GTX+ Petrol DCT, One was manufactured in July, while the others were manufactured in August. I guess there is something wrong with a batch or probably a few units that seem to have gotten a distorted windshield.

It seems the dealer and Kia are somehow, both aware of the issue and that is why they have agreed on a replacement, hope it goes down well and you get one without any issues, as in my opinion, the car is definitely one which is great all-round.

PS: I have compiled an initial ownership review of my experience with the Kia Seltos GTX+ Diesel AT which will go live soon and didn't find any major issues as such.
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Old 17th September 2023, 08:37   #66
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

So I have faced a somewhat similar problem and had to research the topic after my doc explained to me that all patient complain of this for a month and none, not one, will believe the explanation so he just focuses on saying he's fixing it till a month passes by and then Pt stops complaining and even says it's great.

Offcourse, I feel bad in a way that we humans will refuse to believe someone with a different experience than us. I mean the OP perfectly trustworthy guy with experience of 4-5 Lac Kms driven (am just about 2.5 Lac km now) because we have never noticed this problem !!

Makes me realize how all the women might feel who don't complain about harrassment from bosses because this is exactly how we will respond - by offering different explanations - anything except the actual experience, because we don't 'think' it's possible

#Long post warning


So I have noticed similar issues in almost all, equipment that's meant to add-on/fix some human sensory capability. It's really bad in the beginning but goes away in few weeks/months in a pretty unbelievable way if we stop to think about it. I'll give 2 examples first then explain:

If anyone you know uses hearing aids, try them for a moment (check its not too loud to make you deaf or something)- even the best ones will have atrocious sound quality, not at all what you hear normally, no low freq /bass, huge noise, all mid to high frequencies in some other pitch/freq that we are used to, some voices from 3-4 rooms away & some inaudible right in your room etc.
Obviously, it's because all our tech evolved over a few hundred years at best, is still very primitive compared to biological things evolved over a billion years (with the test pilots in a few billion beings, bot a few hundred or few lac that wecan teat anything on)

The surprising thing is this: that's exactly what the person wearing those buds felt initially but after a month or two (ears will take a month + / eyes a week or two) s/he can hear & enjoy the lowest freq thumping bass & crystal clear high frequencies and NO noise. Because? The brain has adjusted to interpreting those sounds the way it needs.

Same thing with specs / glasses. It'll be normal in 2 weeks but the first few days the same thing you show about the scooter back handle is what it looks like for some things(not for everything. Only stuff like steps or road potholes - things your brain focusses on to guage depth position etc as its important for not falling. Other things are probably showing up weird too but it's not important so it's not rendering that with any accuracy and mostly just generating a virtual outline for the peripheral vision. Only if it moves it will suddenly measure stuff and draw a more accurate graphic.

The same glasses will become perfect in few weeks and that's because the brain has adjusted to the signals and what they mean so it draws pretty pictures for you regardless of the sensory inputs from sound or light which are anyway in electrical signals and have to be interpreted - it's not really light or sound going into your brain!

While ear corrections are easier to see as unbelievable stuff, specs are so common and in use for a decade plus for most adults so it's not easy to experience. Most of us have settings for 4-5 different specs that the brain can switch as per which one you are wearing. Also visual disturbances it will be able to fix as you move your head or eyes or walk around since angles will change and it knows how that thing looks from 100 angles.
But the effect of specs is still very very evident to anyone wearing them for the first time.

Wear someone else's specs with very different powers or different spherical corrections and u will see it. Keep wearing for 2 days and you will see it all looks normal now - even though out of focus.

The random errors/disturbances can be fixed by the brain quickly but not an effect which is through out the lens - so blurry image won't be fixed without a long time of use and even then to a small extent.


On fact if you Google you can read about the experiment where they put on glasses on volunteers that show e erything inverted. The people are initially unable to even walk as stuff is inverted ie their legs & floor is visible on top and the ceiling fan or roof on the bottom. They can't take off the glasses. In two weeks they can see normally every thing is the right way up to them !

BUT that's not the crazy part. Now their glasses are removed. Ans they see everything inverted with their normal eyes and can't even walk !! Takes two weeks for them to start seeing right side up again.


I had researched this when I got hurt and needed an ear operation but had to wait a year for that. So doc got me a cic or invisible hearing aid which sounded useless to me and I kept going back till he smiled and told me every single patient does this and there is no way to make them believe the above explanation so they know to just tinker a little with the settings and just ensure 1 month of use at which point patient will stop complaining and in another month or two almost all of them will call and say what a brilliant quality of sound and how were they managing without it. If patient had it in only one ear while other is mostly normal they will now complain that they want in other ear also ! Because the volume is higher so brain starts preferring these signals to interpret and not so much the normal ear. In fact in most cases they will put it in both ears because of this (and because sound is delayed by a tiny millisecond going through the rar bud so distance estimation by brain using TOF times from both ears will be messed up a bit so Pt.cant make out direction. Will always think his mobile is ringing when it's clear that sound is coming from somewhere else like a TV.

So now the last point, why would you not have noticed in other cars ?

I would like to generate some data if you can drive a few other cars NOW, at this point of time. AND not the cars owned by your friends n relatives that you have driven earlier. But cars of some other friends that you have not driven earlier. (I don't mean like u have driven creta earlier but that you drove Mr XYZ'z car earlier few times)


And it's perfectly fine NOT to believe this explanation - it's not necessarily correct, just one possible option.

Besides I did worse -
I kept thinking that the doc is just trying to sell substandard stuff to me for making money and this is probably local market thing he's put in a top brand's box etc. And when he was my school friend and has never ever done any such thing.

And everything he explained or I researched kept supporting this theory of mine till after 2-3 months I listened to very track - money for nothing - and thought the bass is so much better in this ear !





#Long PS: if still unconvinced:

In fact all artificial prosthesis and vaccines and artificial organs etc work like this - its the magical ability of your body to adapt to that crude solution that makea it work flawlessly, it's not like we have made something comparable to a body part.

Or that a vaccine has a magical ability to fix any disease - it's just an advance signal to warn the body to do its unbelievable magic before the actual disease coming in.

It's the same with Elon Musk's neural implants or all other machines to read brain signals - we pass on some shit signals as a visible thing on screen so you can see it and then your brain learns how to send a signal that can be seen in a certain way on the screen.

It's not the machine learning what we are thinking, it's just us learning how to think so that the machine moves in certain way.

Here's how his monkeys play video games by just thinking :

So they give a monkey a simple video game with a joystick. He learns to play that in some weeks.

They attach neuralink type sensor on his head (it has some antenna to read all type of elec mag signals) the machine starts matching random stuff between joystick & brain reading and gets some basic idea of what to read and what to ignore.

Then they disconnect the joystick and connect the machine in its place to tge video game.

Monkey still uses the joystick, though it's not connected. But the machine tries to move the joystick based on brain signals. It's able to just barely move the joystick, not at all with the fine control of actual joystick.

Monkey gets frustrated and keeps trying and it's brain slowly learns what type of signals move the joystick in what direction and to what distance and at what speed. Just like it learn to use joystick.

In a few months Monkey is playing just by thinking and they remove the physical joystick now.

Last edited by Rehaan : 21st September 2023 at 19:22. Reason: Please only use the Team-BHP emojis, as others do not always render :)
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Old 17th September 2023, 18:50   #67
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitabhr View Post
So I have faced a somewhat similar problem and had to research the topic after my doc explained to me that all patient complain of this for a month and none, not one, will believe the explanation so he just focuses on saying he's fixing it till a month passes by and then Pt stops complaining and even says it's great.....

In a few months Monkey is playing just by thinking and they remove the physical joystick now.
Lot of good things in your post. But person might be driving other cars also which needs normal eyesight (compare with Google experiment you quoted where people were seeing real images differently). Hence easier and safer to correct the defect.
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Old 17th September 2023, 23:56   #68
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

It is easier for person sitting in front passenger seat to spot the defect when viewed at an angle since there is no steering wheel or speedometer console blocking the bottom part of the glass.
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Old 18th September 2023, 08:28   #69
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

All we can say is the QC process at Hyundai/Kia India has gone for a toss and they're literally selling defective cars more than normal ones. I guess they're exporting the better ones and selling the lesser quality ones in India.

After reading this article, I closely observed the windscreen on my 2 week old white i20 Magna and realized the bottom 1.5 inches of the glass has the same distortion! My 1999 Santro LE doesn't have any such imperfections.
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Old 18th September 2023, 09:39   #70
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

I feel the problem may be at the angle the vedio being taken. Its not unusual for glass to cause some referaction when the light passess through it. In my opinion you might want to check if this issue causes any issues while driving the car when driver is seated on driver seat in normal driving position.

I suspect that camera close to dashboard height (instead of driver eye's height) will be impacted most cause the amount of light rays passing though it as a certain agnle where the tilt is maximu vs what a driver see when seated in normal driving positon.
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Old 18th September 2023, 09:49   #71
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

Could the problem be due to some other factors like suspension/ride nature of the Seltos? I have faced something similar and peculiar with the new Thar, posted HERE (Mahindra Thar : Official Review). Another experience mentioned HERE (Mahindra Thar : Official Review) too.
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Old 18th September 2023, 10:25   #72
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitabhr View Post
So I

If anyone you know uses hearing aids, try them for a moment (check its not too loud to make you deaf or something)-
====
The brain has adjusted to interpreting those sounds the way it needs.

For someone who has partial hearing problem and Auditory Processing disorder, i can relate to this. I started wearing hearing aids when i got in class 11 and its been 14-15 years since.
Now, I can't wear my hearing aids all the time, specially in humid monsoon season. My actual hearing loss might be around 20-25% but all those times I didn't wore them and tried to listen things around me, they were audible but not clear. It felt more like noise to me, no matter it's someone talking or it's TV. My body stuck to that and the effectiveness of hearing aids went down because the ears couldn't react/make use of better hearing (by help of aids) as they were accustomed of hearing and processing sounds as noise.
Now this might be also termed as audio processing disorder.

Recently a team BHPian got his sonet spruced up by fitting audio systems worth 27lacs. For me, blessed are those who can listen to it in their full potential. I cant, no matter if I put my hearing aids or not.

Our body has funny ways of its own. For some people its one thing and for others, it's something else.
I hope OP adapts himself on this wavvy windshield on his seltos.

I have myself seen this wavy pattern in our Indigo and Maruti 800s windshield but only when the car is stationary, as soon as the car starts driving, every wave vanishes. And yes, it is more pronounced near the bottom. All the best OP
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Old 23rd September 2023, 12:02   #73
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

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Originally Posted by dipdawiz View Post
... Then they used clay to clean the windshield, this time the distortion was clearly visible to naked eyes. They changed the windshield again, this time it is fine. To OP, was it Saint-Gobain windshield in Seltos?

Here is a gif of first replaced windshield (look at the area near irvm)

Attachment 2504283
Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain-20201105_123422_1.jpg

So one day I went out to our parking and did a small experiment. Not a scientific one, it is more of an observation. Also all cars were parked in different location, so reflection of different object was checked. But checked the distortion based on reflection on the windshield. And distortion means the reflection is shrunk or expanded while changing your glance; not just curved reflection. At least 90% of Kia Seltos and Hyundai Creta has some sort of distortion in "blue" area, very insignificant area plus it is behind IRVM, nothing to notice and complaining about it is sort of nitpicking. Around 40-50% of them has distortion in "orange" area however its out of direct line of sight for most of us from driver seat. And though there were not many new cars (2022-2023 batch), but many of them have some distortion in "red" area. Unfortunately one or two we found has distortion in green area (like my friends Creta or OP's seltos), or somewhere in middle or lower middle, which comes in direct line of sight and cause issue. Not surprisingly all of them are Saint Gobain and more prominent issues are in newer lot of cars (2022~2023, Seltos and Creta). And I can confirm in newer Seltos test drive vehicle I drove couple of days ago had distortion 3-4 inch in "red" area across windshield. Checked Sonet and Carens there is no visible distortion, and guess what, these set of windshields are made by AIS.

Also checked some other brands of cars and none of them has any distortion issue as such. Could have curved reflection but not shrunk or expanded. But some wavy reflection behind IRVM is not uncommon.

Now I am not expert, some of it (like the blue area, behind IRVM) could be due to the curve of the glass itself in these models and many others we saw. But looks like newer Seltos and Creta only has more prominent distortion in various area and could be due to QC issue for couple of batches or may be that much of quality only they are maintaining now.

Last edited by dipdawiz : 23rd September 2023 at 12:15.
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Old 25th September 2023, 08:02   #74
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

Just to check we are talking of same effect: is this video/a.gif showing the subject distortion ?

Name:  ezgif.comoptimize.gif
Views: 72
Size:  2.11 MB
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Old 25th September 2023, 08:18   #75
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Re: Kia Seltos windshield distortion is causing me extreme eye strain

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Originally Posted by DoonDude View Post
I'm actually dreading to take delivery of the new car tomorrow i.e. Sunday 17.09.23 !
#StuckWithKia
It's been more than a week. Did you take the delivery? Are you observing any issues still?
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