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-   -   Problems & Advantages of ADAS in the Honda City (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/275793-problems-advantages-adas-honda-city.html)

Its been a little more than 2 months since we purchased a Honda City ZX CVT and I have been actively using ADAS on various occasions. Here are the problems and advantages I have come to:

Problems:

1] Sudden acceleration while on Adaptive Cruise
While on Adaptive Cruise, the car slows down gradually and smoothly if there is a slower car in front of you. But when the car moves or you change lanes, the car accelerates at a rate which is too fast for my liking, so much so that it made me panic a couple of times. Me and my father both find it a bit dangerous and expected a gradual acceleration. But the car simply tries to accelerate as fast as possible to the set speed and there have been occasions where we ended up disabling the cruise (by touching the brake pedal).

2] Emergency Braking Issue on really steep climbs

Now this has not happened once but twice. Both the times the car was slowly climbing a steep stretch of road (the types where you need to get out of a parking on a lower level). I would say on both the instances I would say the climb was really steep (Maybe more than 45 degrees). {Please don't say that the city doesn't have that kind of approach angle lol. It was a gradual climb}.
When on the most steep part, the emergency brake warning went off and the car braked to a complete stop. After talking to a couple of friends we came to the conclusion that maybe the camera can not comprehend the steep climb and it came to the decision that the car was about to crash into road itself. I know it sounds dumb but we couldn't come to any other conclusions. I am going to tell this issue to the Service Centre on my next visit and will update what they say. Also please let me know if anyone else has had this.

3] No audio warning when the adaptive cruise is disabled

When the car slows below 20kmph, the adaptive cruise control turns off and you have to set it again using the controls. But I don't remember hearing a beep once its gone off automatically. There might be a visual warning but you cant always be looking into the instrument cluster to notice it.

4] Overtaking on single lane roads

If you try overtaking someone on single lane roads, you need to use the blinkers while you get out of the lane. But after the overtake when you try getting back into your lane, the lane departure will again send warning beeps and the steering vibrates. You must use the blinker even when getting back in your lane. Now this is not a problem but it takes getting used to, hence putting it up here.

Advantages:

1] Works in rain

I had seen several people saying that the Honda ADAS only has a camera and no radar and hence it might not work well in rain and fog. Now I have not used it in fog, but it worked perfectly well in moderate rain for me.

2] Perfect lane keep assist

The lane keep assist (above 72kmph) works perfectly fine as long as there are proper marking on the road. Also I found the lane departure mitigation to be subtle and not sudden. It is one system we have come to trust.

With so much tech being accesible to everyday vehicles and not extremly expensive premium cars like it used it, its good to see enthusiasts get theu hands on it and get into explaining in detail on what they find good and bad. I'm sure it will help OEM's to caliberate tech to make it better.

Ideally the target will be to achieve the set speed, and reduce the travel time, while retaining user comfort.
It might be old school, but, I for one will not trust driving aids completely.

ALWAYS keep in mind, they are just aids. You are the driver. :)

I was taking the drive of Honda Elevate ZX Cvt with ADAS. I was driving at around 80 kmph on the right lane on 4 lane highway. At the road crossing suddenly an Auto came out of nowhere and joined the highway. My first instinct at that time was to change lanes to the left to avoid a collision but ADAS interrupted, So I had to brake very hard and by the grace of god, the collision didn't happen.

I think for Indian Roads, ADAS is not useful. In future, if my car has ADAS then I will only use Adaptive cruise control rest I will turn it off. I don't like its Artificial feel.

I own a Facelift City Hybrid ZX and I'd like to add a few more points:

Problems:

1] Lane Keep Assist trigger speed too high

The LKA only activates at 72Kmph and gets deactivated once it comes down to 65Kmph as opposed to most brands like Hyundai and Kia where it works above 30Kmph and in some brands like MG and Mahindra it even works from 0Kmph. This reduces the usability drastically.

2] Adaptive Cruise with Low Speed Follow distance too high (e:HEV exclusive)

The Hybrid variants offer a Stop & Go feature for the ACC where it works from a standstill as opposed to above 30Kmph on iVTEC models. This feature is used as the Traffic Jam Assist in most brands. However, even the minimum distance maintained when following a car in traffic is more than one car length whereas radar based systems in other brands have a significantly closer follow distance. This renders the feature useless in our traffic conditions where everyone tries to cut into the gap.

Advantages:

1] Best calibration of Autonomous Emergency Braking

The AEB of Honda is the most well calibrated of any mainstream brand's ADAS I've experienced. It doesn't panic brake even in our complicated driving conditions with people cutting in and out frequently. It just warns when you're too close or too fast behind someone and takes action only when it's absolutely necessary. One of the few cars in our market where AEB can always be left on.

2] Warning chimes:

Honda has one of the least intrusive warning chimes for LKA's "Apply Steering", Lane Departure Prevention and forward collision warning as opposed to brands like BYD where the car screams at you at full volume for any minor inconvenience on the road.

These additional warning chimes for LKA or ACC disable could be turned on or adjusted from the settings menu in the instrument cluster along with a few other ADAS preferences.

Been using the facelift for 6 months now, and whenever I get a chance I do use these features extensively.

Problems:

1] Sudden acceleration while on Adaptive Cruise

Yes, this is a bit concerning. Also from a mileage perspective, the really high RPM causes the FE to drop.

2] Emergency Braking Issue on really steep climbs

Havent faced this issue till now. Hope there is some solution to it, or may be just turn off the collision mitigation when you are on steep climbs.

3] No audio warning when the adaptive cruise is disabled

True that. One has to be aware of the speed on which we are going. I think the cruise disables below 30kmph.

I will try to share my experiences with regards to your issues. I have a Kia Seltos GT Line DCT, I have not faced the issues which you have talked about.

In my Seltos there is an option to set the cruise control acceleration level. There are 4 levels, and I generally set it to lowest or second lowest level. This way it isn't too brisk. Check if you have it in Honda as well. Seltos even has the drive modes and turning the car in eco mode makes the acceleration even more gentle.

I have used this feature for about 200 kms of my 2050 km run till now. I encountered only one instance of such steep climb and the emergency brake didn't kick in. Maybe it's because the SUV design of Seltos, and hence didn't think the road as an obstacle on the road. That said, I keep this feature off most of the times, and have just kept the audio warning ON.

That's strange. For me the adaptive cruise continues even if the front car stops for less than 5 secs and moves again. If it stops for more than 5 secs, then I get a chime with warning that the adaptive cruise is disabled, and to enable I need to either press accelerator or resume button on steering. This way I continue adaptive cruise usage even in cities.

This depends on how long you stay in overtaking lane. In my seltos if I come into overtaking lane and the right blinker is on, it gives me a 2 sec window AFTER the right blinker has turned off, until which it reads the new lane markings of the overtaking lane. If I cross under the 2 sec window, it allows me to cross without any warning, otherwise it does warn me, but the warning is subtle and resistance is less than other times if I try to go out of lane without using indicator. That said, it's always good to use the indicator even when you are entering your driving lane again.

What RPMs does the car use to accelerate back up?
NA engines can have higher efficiency while accelerating within their peak torque band than at lower RPMs. Note that this only applies to acceleration, and not cruising - you will be more efficient accelerating hard at 3000RPM than at 1500RPM, but for cruising, where frictional losses dominate, of course, 1500 RPM will be better.

I think the trend of too much dependence on ADAS - could lead to lazy-driving, as well as to drivers being unprepared on what to do in emergency situations.

It's like learning mathematics - if one always relies on a calculator - they can forget even basics such as long-division. Or think of flying in an aircraft where the pilot has only experience in flying the aircraft in auto-pilot.

In addition, when car companies stop maintaining software for these vehicles, it is an inherit risk in the system that "wrong decisions" will be made by the ADAS.

Never really looked down at the meter since the high revs make the driver want to look into what the car is trying to do but pretty sure it went to around 3.5k to 4k judging from the noise.

You have put the jotted the points very well. Just adding to the quoted point that why an audio warning is necessary when Adaptive Cruise Control is disabled.

This system shuts down automatically once the vehicle speed drops to less than 25KMPH. This means that the ACC system will not automatically apply your vehicle’s brakes (that you were used to while the system was on) and the driver now must apply the brakes manually if there is a vehicle infront. Hence, the system must inform the driver in such a scenario.

Is there a way to permanently disconnect honda sensing in city hybrid ?

As of now there is no way to disable Honda sensing and the chances are, it may disable few other systems in your car including traction control. My experience with Honda sensing has been satisfactory. I have a City c
CVT and been using the car just under 6 months. There has been only one jnstance till date where my car suddenly braked on a rainy day even though the pedestrian and a two wheeler were at least 20metres away and stationary.
Otherwise, the system has been a blessing for me. Till date I have done a 1000+km trip once and a half a dozen 300km trips. Apart from that, I have never faced any issue even within city commute.