[fedexp]

I own a 9 year old Vento - was always serviced from official service center - PPS Motors, Hyderabad. In the first 4 years, with in warranty, the mechatronics and gearbox was replaced in the third/4th year. This was covered under warranty. Then in the 6th year, the gearbox failed on me and I paid 1.25 lacs out of my pocket for a replacement as the vehicle was out of warranty. This was done on 21 Aug '21. After this replacement, every few months, there would be some sort of revving issue/ gear laggin issue, which I reported promptly and everytime the dealership said it fixed it but it kept coming back every few months. Now, 2 weeks ago, the vehicle was getting stuck in the first gear and wasn't drive worthy, so I sent it for repair. The service center does some checks, they say it is all fine, they also do regular servicing, send the vehicle back. The next day, the gear gets stuck again! I report it back to service advisor and he suggests that I should get the replacement done for the mechatronics/gearbox. I write to the customer care of Volkswagen india on their website for help as I was not ready to bear such huge expense out of pocket - service manager from Hyderabad dealership calls me and tries to understand the issue and then I was sent this email -



So they offered me an amazing 10% discount out of some great goodwill they have. I responded back to them asking for invoices from all the service/repair work done in last 3 years. They responded back with the invoices after one week! (this too after copying dealer principal only). So, I sent this email two days ago and there hasn't been any response to it yet:




After receiving no acknowledgment or response from them. I wrote to VW India Twitter handle, a DM copying the content of this email and they sent a response back saying Customer Care will contact me. I clearly said I am looking for escalation contact, but they did not provide one. So, I tweeted to CEO of Volks India, Piyush Arora, copying VW India.



So, this where I am right now. I would like to hear from this forum on what would be a good way to proceed from here. Should I take legal recourse? Should I tweet to VW Global, will that help? What are the chances that the dealership will replace the part without any cost considering this as a special case? Appreciate any advice in this context. Thanks!

[fedexp]

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[Rajeevraj]

It seems from the info shared that the 6th year replacement they did, had issues and in spite of you highlighting it multiple times, it was not properly looked at and the dealership was doing some temp fixes or workarounds to cover till the end of the warranty period. But they can also claim that issues were fixed as and when you highlighted and you took delivery of the car post repairs each time(Probably signed their bill/gate pass which has a fine print that you are satisfied with the repairs and taking delivery). So while you are in the right here and the claim for a replacement is a rightful request, a free replacement can happen only if the dealership or VW decide to do it out of good will. Not sure if a court case can help. Other escalations you seem to have done. One option is to directly email higher up in the organization if someone can share contacts. Another hope is that since you have put up this thread, it will have visibility into Volkswagen and you may get some relief due to that.

Keep that aside, have you taken the car to any good FNG to get it checked? While the DQ200 is prone to failure, one failure at the 4th year, then again at the 6th year and then again failing seems to also point to something else wrong.

[fedexp]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

It seems from the info shared that the 6th year replacement they did had issues and in spite of you highlighting it multiple times, it was not properly looked at and the dealership was doing some temp fixes or workarounds to cover till the end of the warranty period. But they can also claim that issues were fixed as and when you highlighted and you took delivery of the car post repairs each time(Probably signed their bill/gate pass which has a fine print that you are satisfied with the repairs and taking delivery). So while you are in the right here and the claim for a replacement is a rightful request, a free replacement can happen only if the dealership or VW decide to do it out of good will. Not sure if a court case can help. Other escalations you seem to have done. One option is to directly email higher up in the organization if someone can share contacts. Another hope is that since you have put up this thread, it will have visibility into Volkswagen and you may get some relief due to that.

Keep that aside, have you taken the car to any good FNG to get it checked? While the DQ200 is prone to failure, one failure at the 4th year, then again at the 6th year and then again failing seems to also point to something else wrong.

Thank you for your response. You are right that the dealership could claim that the vehicle was delivered under good condition, but then I never signed anything and it was delivered always by home pick up and drop. My claim would be that they made a temporary fix and never fixed it the right way with in warranty, intentionally to make money off it later. Plus, I think even if I say that it was fine at that point, it doesn't mean they did a good job with it based on evidence - according to a lawyer friend, he thinks that the current proof is good enough to take it to consumer court. I think the dealership would know that if this goes to court, they will appoint a corporate lawyer to deal with it and they would pay him/her more than what the part would cost if they replace it out of good will. I've emailed PPS Motors dealer principal in my last email. It has been 3 days and no acknowledgment of the email so far. I am coming to the conclusion that they don't give a damn about it. The customer care is also a joke, first they assigned my case to Uttarakhand Volks dealership! and then yesterday when I ask for escalation email on their twitterid, I get redirected to customer care. I hope they are checking these threads and it gets the attention.

Regarding going to FNG to get it checked - that's a new thing for me. I've always gotten it serviced from PPS Motors, didn't knew such options exist.
Finally, as much as I love the DSG and driveability of these german cars, I am coming to the conclusion that I will just ditch it all for a non-german car that doesn't have these gearbox issues, for my next car. I don't think the customer care will get any better in general, if I go for a harrier/something else, but atleast the repais won't be this expensive, the parts probably won't be so damage prone and the customer care/dealership may be less indifferent and less unprofessional than what I am dealing with.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by fedexp

Regarding going to FNG to get it checked - that's a new thing for me. I've always gotten it serviced from PPS Motors, didn't knew such options exist.

See how it goes with the actions in progress/planned. My guess is that getting a favorable response from the dealer/consumer court/VW will be a long drawn process. But hope it works out.

For German cars like ours, it is good to identify a good outside garage. Refer to this thread (ASS vs FNG for German Cars | What are the real benefits?)on such a discussion for German cars.

The above thread also has a recent recommendation on a place in Hyderabad called Man & Machine. Seems to have great reviews online also. Maybe you can try it out at least to get a sense of what needs to be done.

[steadfast]

In India 2.0 these issues have been resolved however in pre-India 2.0 era as well the expectation was to have on average 1 DQ200 failure in lifetime . Failing thrice, is too much the RCA of which needs to be done:
1.) Other problem with car ?
2.) Is the car chauffeur driven ?
3.) Own driving style for e.g holding the gear in D for long on standstill or changing to D with high acceleration etc.
4.) Service centre problem

[Quadrant55]

Originally Posted by fedexp

I own a 9 year old Vento - was always serviced from official service center - PPS Motors, Hyderabad. In the first 4 years, with in warranty, the mechatronics and gearbox was replaced in the third/4th year. This was covered under warranty.

Have the ASC or the service advisor mentioned the error codes that ODIS is throwing up?

Then in the 6th year, the gearbox failed on me and I paid 1.25 lacs out of my pocket for a replacement as the vehicle was out of warranty. This was done on 21 Aug '21.

In 2021, was the gearbox replaced or only the mechatronics unit?

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

For German cars like ours, it is good to identify a good outside garage. Refer to this thread (ASS vs FNG for German Cars | What are the real benefits?)on such a discussion for German cars.

And as has been suggested above, you should visit a good FNG for a second opinion.
I would suggest contacting/visiting Srinivas-German Motors (German Motors - FNG in Hyderabad).
I had written about them sometime back and have been sending my vehicles only to them since. Very satisfied with their services.
I have seen DSGs being repaired and during one of my visits had come across a mechatronics unit which was completely disassembled to identify the actual issue.
Had taken a pic of it, will upload it as and when I find it.

They have multiple scanners – ODIS and Launch for sure.
If nothing else, they should be able to provide you with the relevant error codes which might help you understand the issue better and take a considered decision.

[rt363]

Incidents like these makes one wonder how to depend on VW/Skoda for their 2.0 cars.
Reliability is of major concern and we need good support from VW group to confidently buy their offerings.

[AKSarkar1]

VW’s DQ200 gearbox is arguably one of the biggest lemons in the global automotive space. One of my friends had his gearbox fail on him in the 14th Month of ownership and decided to never buy a VW automatic again.

Giving the fact that you have carried out multiple repairs on your car, VW should ideally cover this one. However, this is easier said than done. I think you should retry contacting the top management and if that fails then legal counsel should be taken.

However, my personal advice would be to either sell this car or if you intend on hanging onto it then installing it with a more robust gearbox like the DQ250 that should keep you good for at least the next 3-4 years.

It is even more shameful that VW continues selling this gearbox in their supposedly “designed for India cars” knowing very well that these gearboxes are a lemon. Actions speak more louder than words, VW India can give all the ethics presentation that they want but their actions speak very loudly otherwise!!

[fedexp]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

See how it goes with the actions in progress/planned. My guess is that getting a favorable response from the dealer/consumer court/VW will be a long drawn process. But hope it works out.

For German cars like ours, it is good to identify a good outside garage. Refer to this thread (ASS vs FNG for German Cars | What are the real benefits?)on such a discussion for German cars.

The above thread also has a recent recommendation on a place in Hyderabad called Man & Machine. Seems to have great reviews online also. Maybe you can try it out at least to get a sense of what needs to be done.

You are right. It is a long drawn process. The dealership came back with a response - only after I sent another follow up email asking if there will be no response from the dealership. This was the response:



I have started talking to a lawyer about the legal steps for this next. I think it has come to a point where I don't care about losing money on this problem now. The audacity of the dealership to show this sort of indifference needs to be dealth with properly.

Originally Posted by steadfast

In India 2.0 these issues have been resolved however in pre-India 2.0 era as well the expectation was to have on average 1 DQ200 failure in lifetime . Failing thrice, is too much the RCA of which needs to be done:
1.) Other problem with car ?
2.) Is the car chauffeur driven ?
3.) Own driving style for e.g holding the gear in D for long on standstill or changing to D with high acceleration etc.
4.) Service centre problem

1) No other problems with the car in general from previous services.
2) No, single driver, owner driven car.
3) Always in D, never in manual or sport. Very ocassionaly may be sport on highways for overtaking.
4) The proof is in the pudding. Years of complaints and recurrence of the issue shows competence of the service center - both in repairing and also in communicating. They don't train their people to communicate with customers clearly. Like for instance, in their invoice you will see the customer specified problem, but in the same invoice there won't be a lengthy discharge summary of what was done, except for the usual parts and labor billing line items. So, all you get is some assurances from the service advisor who you are not likely to talk another time.

Originally Posted by Quadrant55

Have the ASC or the service advisor mentioned the error codes that ODIS is throwing up?


In 2021, was the gearbox replaced or only the mechatronics unit?


And as has been suggested above, you should visit a good FNG for a second opinion.
I would suggest contacting/visiting Srinivas-German Motors (German Motors - FNG in Hyderabad).
I had written about them sometime back and have been sending my vehicles only to them since. Very satisfied with their services.
I have seen DSGs being repaired and during one of my visits had come across a mechatronics unit which was completely disassembled to identify the actual issue.
Had taken a pic of it, will upload it as and when I find it.

They have multiple scanners – ODIS and Launch for sure.
If nothing else, they should be able to provide you with the relevant error codes which might help you understand the issue better and take a considered decision.

In 2021, mechatronic was replaced, they also replaced the steering rack and related parts - I don't remember if they said it was connected (I think they did which is why I would have approved it, I can't quite recollect). The mechatronic cost was 72k, labor was 8k, software was 2k, so about 82k. The steering rack etc (10-12k) and accessorial stuff they did was another 40k. 99k for parts and 22k for labor.


Thank you for the FNG reference. I am going to definitely check it out.

Originally Posted by rt363

Incidents like these makes one wonder how to depend on VW/Skoda for their 2.0 cars.
Reliability is of major concern and we need good support from VW group to confidently buy their offerings.

I am done with VW. Yes, overall great cars, but not great dealerships, not great management in India. Writing to their customer care, calling them, tweeting to their CEO, got me zero attention. They seem to have no escalation matrix beyond their dealerships - they won't give that information out even if you ask for it. Absolute disregard for customer grievance, esp selling cars at such high premium rates, calling themselves a premium company. You get better customer care and quicker resolution from Swiggy/Zomato than you would from VW.

Originally Posted by AKSarkar1

VW’s DQ200 gearbox is arguably one of the biggest lemons in the global automotive space. One of my friends had his gearbox fail on him in the 14th Month of ownership and decided to never buy a VW automatic again.

Giving the fact that you have carried out multiple repairs on your car, VW should ideally cover this one. However, this is easier said than done. I think you should retry contacting the top management and if that fails then legal counsel should be taken.

However, my personal advice would be to either sell this car or if you intend on hanging onto it then installing it with a more robust gearbox like the DQ250 that should keep you good for at least the next 3-4 years.

It is even more shameful that VW continues selling this gearbox in their supposedly “designed for India cars” knowing very well that these gearboxes are a lemon. Actions speak more louder than words, VW India can give all the ethics presentation that they want but their actions speak very loudly otherwise!!

Your friend decided to do the right thing. I am also done with VW. May be their cars are good - and they can do many things right with these gearboxes. They could just offer a long warranty. It is a joke that the warranty is 2 years on such high failure rate parts. Then the unprofessional, unethical business tactics of their dealerships are the second part why one should decide to stay away from them. On my email, the dealer principal is copied - he is the highest escalation level for the dealership and not a single response from him yet. Just the service manager responds always, that too after multiple follow ups. Their customer care is a joke. They assigned the case to Uttarakhand dealer for a car bought in Hyderabad and despite tweeting to their CEO, or their different handles (including the international one), not a single callback from VW - just one formal email that it has been assigned as a standard response.

It has been two weeks and I don't have another spare car. I have been borrowing cars from my friends when I need one. All in all, this has been a big lesson for me to never buy VW again.

[blogslogger]

Originally Posted by fedexp

Regarding going to FNG to get it checked - that's a new thing for me. I've always gotten it serviced from PPS Motors, didn't knew such options exist.

I would suggest Man and Machine in Madhapur to get it checked. Highly competent. PPS isn't so great so I've always serviced my Jetta there. Can wholeheartedly recommend.

[fedexp]

UPDATE: Heard back from the dealership. I received a call back from their CRM. She told that me that the dealership was notified by VW social media desk. She then asked me if I would be ok with the offer they gave me (10% discount for repair). I asked her why should I be ok with it, esp after the failure to make it right every time they had an opportunity to do so.To this question, she mentioned that they had delivered vehicle to my satisfaction on every instance of repair and I accepted the vehicle post repair. To this, I said that if the said fix was done to my satisfaction, why was I sending the vehicle back with in a few months again with the same issue. She then says that she doesn't have technical background to answer that question. So, I said, as a customer I wouldn't also know if the issue was technically fixed or not except for evaluating it in working and if it didn't work with in a few weeks or months, then it hasn't been fixed correctly - that's my evaluation. I also mentioned how the invoices contain my concerns, but they don't go to the technical details or commentary of what was done by the service advisor clearly, except line item billing, so there is no way to tell what has been fixed, other than taking their word for it.

I added that in this whole process, the dealership seems to be thinking that this is some sort of money problem and thinking it can be solved by offering a discount. The real issue is that dealership is not able to come back to me with root cause of why such lapses happened over the years. And this is what, I have an issue with. I would expect answers like .. 'the part is known to failure - it is VW's fault', OR 'the dealership was at fault for not fixing it right', OR maybe 'you didn't drive the car right'. If all I get offered is some sort of discount, I am not interested in it.

So, she asked me what was I willing to pay - I said I will not pay for a part that has such high failure rate/reliability issues and VW/dealership has to account for it. If it is VW quality issue, I expect the dealer to stand by my side and take this up with higher authorities on VW side and make it case for exception to get a new part without my burden. I have always gotten it serviced from their workshop and I spent probably 4-5 lacs in all these years on the car, so they owe me that much. If it is their issue, not VW issue then they have to fix it on their own. If neither is going to happen, I will settle this in the court of law and I've already discussed this with my lawyer.

After this discussion, she said she will arrange a call with somebody from VW on Monday. I will update this thread on how it goes after this call happens.

Originally Posted by blogslogger

I would suggest Man and Machine in Madhapur to get it checked. Highly competent. PPS isn't so great so I've always serviced my Jetta there. Can wholeheartedly recommend.

Thank you for the reference. Will check it out.