[sunilch]

Originally Posted by Insuman

Thanks for the reply. Agree, The coolant reservoir was re-filled a day before driving and I had checked it physically before starting the car. The tank was empty the next day!

I had a similar problem where-in the coolant reservoir was empty suddenly one fine evening.

I bought a bottle, filled it and took the car to FNG and they were not able to diagnose it since there were no visible traces of a leak anywhere. Just a day back I had the ATF replaced and they suspected this to be a mistake of the guy who did this ATF replacement. I wasn't 100% convinced by nonetheless, since the car was back to functioning, I moved back to home.

After a drive of about 30-40Kms, the coolant reservoir went empty again. Then again refilled and took the car to a another FNG and they diagnosed it to a leaking/damaged old Oil Cooler Assembly (common issue in old cars) where-in the coolant and the oil were getting mixed and also the Oil was leaking due to an old ruptured pipe/hose that was going into the Oil Cooler.

Had the Oil Cooler Assembly replaced and the hose/pipe too, but the problem with the coolant continued after that again.

Initial leaking Oil wasn't noticed because it was falling on the cover pan below the engine and hence I was not seeing any oil traces in my parking lot.

Next the radiator was taken out and a couple of holes were noticed in it. They then serviced and fixed the holes in the radiator and since then, my coolant levels are fine (ran about 200Kms after that).

How those holes came into existence is another mystery for me to solve now. But the car is functioning at present.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

A couple of thoughts/comments.

Anything on a car and engine is subject to wear. Every single part will at some point break. So yes, parts will break. Unless it happens to early in a cars life or mileage it is simply not a manufacturing defect. So unless this was a low mileage car, I don’t think you can see this as a manufacturing defect as such.

If the car is under warranty and if the car is serviced by VW authorised service centre, it is their responsibility to diagnose/detect and fix anything that is wearing out which is going to break the system.
Unless there was a physical damage (like stone hitting, rat bite...) warranty should cover this damage. If it is due to some accidental damage, the insurance should cover it.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Guna

If the car is under warranty and if the car is serviced by VW authorised service centre, it is their responsibility to diagnose/detect and fix anything that is wearing out which is going to break the system.
Unless there was a physical damage (like stone hitting, rat bite...) warranty should cover this damage. If it is due to some accidental damage, the insurance should cover it.

The manufacturer can and expects you to read the manual and act accordingly. As others and I have pointed out, this sort of damage doesn’t happen without ample warning. The owner/ driver could have prevented major mishap by stopping earlier. There is also the matter of the water in the coolant.

Somebody had added water to he coolant. As I mentioned earlier, if you find your coolant reservoir low something is amiss and you need to get it seen too. Cooling system are closed systems and coolant doesn’t evaporate.

My two cents, this car probably had a low level coolant alarm. Somebody added water and drove on. He/she ignored all subsequent alarms on the dash and noises coming from under the hood as this engine tore itself to pieces.

Irrespective of the formal legal position in India on such matters, I would suggest the owner/driver is largely if nood completely to blame.

I don’t know if car insurance in India would cover this. In the west it would definitely not be covered, no matter what kind of insurance you have. No insurance can be bought to cover your own ignorance.

Jeroen

[thirdmainroad]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

As others and I have pointed out, this sort of damage doesn’t happen without ample
Jeroen

Jeroen, as in most, if not all of your posts, you make a lot of sense. It’s cool to have you here and aid all of us, if I may say so!

I’d like to ask.. in modern cars such as the Taigun, do you think the warning lights on the dashboard can miss some stuff that goes wrong? Like if some major issue happens with the engine, like a loss of coolant, or brake fuel leak or something wonky which could severely impact the engine, do you think the warnings lights will miss them, and we still have to rely on old fashion feel?

In other words, if you were to feel something was amiss, but there are no warning lights, do you think it’s ok to drive on?

[sagarpadaki]

Coolant may have drained out due to the cut in the hose. However, there is no evidence that the coolant was not maintained and there was plain water in the cooling system instead of coolant. The video which shows water coming out of the cut in the hose near the firewall is most likely because the service center filled the system with water to find the root cause of the leak. It is very common to use water for finding the source of the leak at the service center.

[Insuman]

Update from my coolant repair- VW took one day to respond after the car was with them. They have quoted as below and is not covered in EW.
45 k for parts and labor!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by thirdmainroad

I’d like to ask.. in modern cars such as the Taigun, do you think the warning lights on the dashboard can miss some stuff that goes wrong? Like if some major issue happens with the engine, like a loss of coolant, or brake fuel leak or something wonky which could severely impact the engine, do you think the warnings lights will miss them, and we still have to rely on old fashion feel?

In other words, if you were to feel something was amiss, but there are no warning lights, do you think it’s ok to drive on?

Although, technically speaking you can’t rule out to lights on the dash not working, it is extremely unlikely. All these sensors and lights are wired as fail safe. Which means that if a sensor, power or wire fails the alarm would be triggered!

As an engineer I would say that if you feel something isn’t right better investigate. Is always better to be safe than sorry. Whether you should drive on is very much a judgement call of course. It all depends what you see and hear and one’s ability to draw some conclusions.

There are cases where no warning lights are present and you really should stop and don’t drive on till it’s sorted. I encountered such a situation recently on a trip with my Alfa Spider.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...ms-2000km.html (2 guys, 2 Alfa Spiders, 5 days driving, 5 countries, 6 museums, 2000km)

One of my wheels was about to fall off!

Things like suspension, steering , brakes, gear boxes can have problems which don’t show up in the dash. It is by feel and sound only.

Having anything go wrong with the engine itself without warning lights is extremely rare. All critical functions on modern engines are well monitored.
What people don’t always realize is how quickly things can go from bad to worse. If you have a red warning light on the dash you must stop immediately and sort the problem before setting off again. Yellow warning lights are cautionary lights and need to be investigated asap.


An engine with insufficient cooling or oil will very quickly sustain major damage.
You really should not drive on. You really ought to follow the procedure in the owners manual. If you don’t, you are likely to cause major damage very quickly.

Jeroen

[Habanero City]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Things like suspension, steering , brakes, gear boxes can have problems which don’t show up in the dash. It is by feel and sound only.

Having anything go wrong with the engine itself without warning lights is extremely rare. All critical functions on modern engines are well monitored.
What people don’t always realize is how quickly things can go from bad to worse. If you have a red warning light on the dash you must stop immediately and sort the problem before setting off again. Yellow warning lights are cautionary lights and need to be investigated asap.


An engine with insufficient cooling or oil will very quickly sustain major damage.
You really should not drive on. You really ought to follow the procedure in the owners manual. If you don’t, you are likely to cause major damage very quickly.

Jeroen

Having suffered once with engine overheating problem, I think that modern cars should have audio alarams in addition to the visual alarms in dashboard in case of severe conditions that you have mentioned and even cut off the engine in case of catastropic failure.

Practically how can anyone keep seeing the dashboard for small alarm lights when our main focus is on the road dynamics (especially in India).
These simple features would be of great help rather than some of the frivulous things that are advertised.

Similarly with the windows rolled up and music or other such noises around indentifying major problems with "feel and sound" is not always possible.
While major mechanical failures come under this category and may be impossible to provide instrumentation, other parameters that are already monitored by ECM can be easily hooked to a audio visual alarm indicating catastropic danger.
Just my thoughts based on experience in suffering overheated engine and its loss.

[thirdmainroad]

Originally Posted by Insuman

Update from my coolant repair- VW took one day to respond after the car was with them. They have quoted as below and is not covered in EW.
45 k for parts and labor!

Why was this denied if Extended Warranty was active at time of the mishap? What reason did they give?

Did you really stop the car as soon as you noticed the engine lights on or did you drive for even a little while?

[Insuman]

They said this is wear and tear and not covered! Car was parked overnight and the coolant warning light was on when I tried first thing in the morning.So didn’t drive .I refilled the coolant before driving but the next day again the coolant was gone.

Hope this helps.
Thanks

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Insuman

They said this is wear and tear and not covered! Car was parked overnight and the coolant warning light was on when I tried first thing in the morning.So didn’t drive .I refilled the coolant before driving but the next day again the coolant was gone.

Hope this helps.
Thanks

I think this could be the most probable reason for the damage. When you noticed the coolant warning light, you just refilled the coolant reservoir and went with your drive. Like Jeroen mentioned earlier, coolant is system is a closed loop system like brake system. 100-200ml loss of coolant over a period of a few months or if the coolant was replaced and air purging was not done properly, is normal and can be topped up. But if the coolant reservoir is empty then it definitely means something is wrong and needs to be investigated. Additionally, the reservoir has around 1 liter capacity. The overall cooling circuit holds around 6-7 liters of coolant in most mid and high engine capacity cars. If the coolant has leaked out of the system, topping the reservoir with water/coolant is unlikely to help if the other part of the coolant system is already empty/low. In this scenario, it will still result in overheating.

Around 5 years ago, I had a coolant loss issue in our car as where the reservoir was almost empty. In addition to topping up, I spend some time to troubleshoot where the coolant is going. Finally found that the passenger side carpet is wet, and the coolant had leaked onto the carpet due to a leak in heater core. Had I just topped up the coolant in the reservoir and continued with my drive, it would have sure shot resulted in overheating like your case. And my car does not have any indication on cluster to notify me of low coolant.

In another recent incident, the coolant level was slowly going down, like around 100ml drop every 500kms. Initially I suspected that the engine is consuming coolant and maybe head gasket is compromised. After carefully checking all the hoses with a mechanic mirror, I noticed that there was a mild leak from the hose which goes into the EGR unit. It is buried deep inside the engine bay and any coolant dripping out would fall on hot engine and evaporate, thereby not causing any drips on the floor. I lived with this problem for almost 1.5 years with just topping up the coolant until I decided to get to the bottom of the matter. Now after replacing that short hose, the coolant level has remained steady for the past 1000+ kms.


So, it is a good practice to open the hood and check the fluid level and condition every week or so even on modern cars with 10k/1 year service interval. These kinds of anomalies can be noticed, observed, tracked and fixed in time. And service centers do not even check the coolant hoses during periodic service. They only take action if they find an active leak when they hoist the car up or see coolant in the engine bay.